Replies

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 11, 2009 11:41pm | #1

   Should be fine, new 2x6 are only 5 1/2"...but watch for old nails, and splits. The stuff is probably REALLY dry and will split more readily when nailed. Crown the parts used for studs, and if your framer don't know about crowning, get a new framer.

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 12, 2009 12:31am | #2

   Thanks Sphere, I must confess that I haven't heard of crowning studs. Rafters, yes, but studs is new to me. Do you point the crown to the exterior?DonSWW

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 12, 2009 12:43am | #3

   Generally it doesn't matter as long as they all are crowned the same direction.  The only time I'd cross crown is when making a jack and king set for a door way, you can cancel out the bows somewhat by opposing them.

   Of course if they are way outta whack they get cut for blocking or sheetrock backing or cripples.

   I can see a framer not wanting to deal with them, they need extra steps to trim the ends, they may have nails, and any twist will be set "in stone" where as a greener board can bend more and maybe less fight. But I am sure some can be put to good use. If he's working on time he should be happy for the extra pay for his time to dink with them, if its a do it for xx amt of $$ he wants new material. I can see his point.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 12, 2009 02:03am | #5

   Thanks,
   I'll talk it over with the customers and maybe we'll toss in some extra $ to the framer for using the old rafters.
   DonSWW

2. 
   Sasquatch | Mar 12, 2009 07:57pm | #22

   I always crown studs to the exterior.  This makes hanging cabinets much simpler.  You don't want a wall bowing into the room.  I pick out the straightest studs for kings and jacks, use the worst crowned studs for shorter pieces like sills, cripples, and blocking.

   On interior walls, I put the crown away from the larger or more well-lighted room, preferably into a closet, stairwell, or hallway.

   These simple instructions don't require much work once you get used to doing it that way, but I could never get my framing crew to understand.  Although they were getting paid for the extra time spent getting the crowns right, it was just too much of a mental struggle for someone who doesn't care enough about quality.  That is one more reason why I went to working alone.

   I'll mention floor joists, since they were not brought up.  The home I am renovating now had been built without regard to crowning the floor joists up.  Over time, the effect was exaggerated by gravity.  It took me quite a bit of work to overcome the wave effect.

   Also, since many here will say that straight studs do not need to be checked for proper crowning for practical reasons, I will say that all studs have at least some crown or will have.  I consider it worth the extra five minutes spent during the day to get this right.

   Finally, to get better support for my headers and a nice flat surface for trim, I try to figure out the crown potential of the kings and jacks and put them in opposite directions, preferably with the kings crowned out and jacks crowned in.  This encourages them to keep each other straight.

   Am I being too picky?  Well, some have said that about me.How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 12, 2009 08:11pm | #23

   I do pretty much the same except that for interior walls I crown out from more critical areas instead of from larger rooms. examples would be a tight bathroom where you have fixtures and cabinets, or a stairwell where a bowed wall can make hanging the handrail tricky 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   Sasquatch | Mar 12, 2009 08:44pm | #24

   I agree with your method.  One of the dangers in stating general principles is that one must still use judgment in individual situations, often resulting in what seems like an arbitrary change in procedure.  This makes it hard for some folks to deal with.  It is probably why folks who just want to cut and nail and keep things simple do not place a lot of faith in principles.

   Any of my rules can be overridden by a particular situation.  For instance, if there will be a wall of pictures in a hallway, it might be best to crown away from the hallway.How can you understand God if you can't understand people?  How can you understand people if you can't understand yourself?

2. 
   flash28 | Mar 13, 2009 08:35am | #26

   Just wanted to say that I appreciate your efforts on crowning.  I have never considered not crowning lumber.  I even crown LVLs.  My old boss and I were called in once to trim out a house so poorly framed that other trimmers wouldn't/didn't have the skill to deal with it.  I ripped many a tapered strip to bring window and door jambs out flush to the drywall before we could nail on the casing.  Headers were terribly misaligned.  Studs were atrocious.  I think in the kitchen walls, the framers crowned the studs, used the worst ones, and turned every other one so that there was a delightful wave to the walls.  Hanging and setting all the cabinets was a nightmare.  But it was a definitive learning experience for me very early in my career.

2. 
   DonSWW | Mar 12, 2009 09:21pm | #25

   Thanks,
   D

2. 
   Matt | Mar 12, 2009 01:11am | #4

   Sometimes those old boards can be very hard and difficult to drive a nail into.  Also, since the 2x6s are of a different size than modern ones you need to be positive that there enough of the old ones - or the framer will be ripping modern stock down.  You will need to pay the framer extra for the extra time he will spend - assuming he is working on a fixed bid.   You will probably save a few bucks once it's all said and done.

   Another idea would be to donate the used lumber to HfH and take the tax write-off which might come out about the same.  You need to check with HfH first to be sure they will accept the used lumber.

   I don't do stuff like this but I would think the speed at which the project gets dried in after the roof is removed would be critical.  I'd guess that re-using lumber might add a day or 2.

   Regarding crowning studs - well yea, there is that... but normally the idea is to only use good quality lumber for studs - the "culls" are cut up for blocking, etc or just returned to the lumber store.

3. 
   BossHog | Mar 12, 2009 02:08am | #6

   I tried it once - Used some old rafters as ceiling joists.

   They were bowed pretty bad. No way would have wanted to use them as studs.

   They were also VERY hard, as Matt mentioned. And the 5 1/4" dimension wouldn't work very well with 6 9/16" door and/or window jambs.

   If the customer does insist on this, I think some $$$ for the framer's trouble is completely appropriate.

   Life is not a dress rehearsal.
1. 
   frammer52 | Mar 12, 2009 02:10am | #7

   I would insist on mre money!>G<

2. 
   DonSWW | Mar 12, 2009 02:41am | #9

   Thanks. That's helpful. Nothing like experience.
   DonSWW

4. 
   Dave45 | Mar 12, 2009 02:19am | #8

   How old is the house, and what kind of wood are the rafters?

   I once did a job in a 1920's era garage with VG fir framing. It was so blasted hard that I had to predrill almost everything before I could drive a nail.

1. 
   frammer52 | Mar 12, 2009 03:57am | #10

    was so blasted hard that I had to predrill almost everything before I could drive a nail

    

   With a nail gun?

1. 
   Dave45 | Mar 12, 2009 07:18am | #13

   Nope. This was in the early 80's and all I had was a 24 oz hammer. - lol

   Edited 3/12/2009 12:23 am by Dave45

2. 
   Sphere | Mar 12, 2009 04:17am | #11

   I'm confused, VG fir is a name for a sawn face, not a species. Nail the other face, it should be flat sawn. You do know what VG means right?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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1. 
   Dave45 | Mar 12, 2009 07:22am | #14

   VG = Vertical Grain.This was all old growth, very straight grained, Douglas Fir logged long before anyone was thinking about sustainability and tree farms. In those days, it was just a common framing lumber. Now, it's very expensive - if you can even find it.

1. 
   Sphere | Mar 12, 2009 02:33pm | #18

   In reality, VG is another way of saying quartersawn , the face shows the VG. While old growth is declining in availabilty , VG can be had in any species and is quite common. It's all in the sawing.

   Somehow it got attached to Douglas Fir as flooring and siding and became a misnomer, like Formica and Kleenex being used for any HP laminate and any tissue product.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

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   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

1. 
   Dave45 | Mar 12, 2009 04:36pm | #19

   "A rose by any other name", I suppose. - lol

2. 
   JohnWalker | Mar 16, 2009 05:22am | #51

   For what its worth I reno-ed a 1912 house.

   While drilling the holes for the wiring I smoked a heavy duty drill and went through a bucket of bits. The fancy self-fed bits would thread in and stall any drill (maybe a gear reduction hole hawg could do it). Cheap spade bits were best in the over all scheme of things.

   That age of house is framed with "old growth" by default. Its very tight grained and seems to get harder with age.

   Sorry I don't know what species it was though.

   Don't get me wrong though the reuse thing is a good idea. Just be aware of the "extras" going in.

   John

3. 
   DonSWW | Mar 17, 2009 03:14am | #52

   Thanks,
   It will be worth drilling through one just to see how tuff the old stuff is. For what it's worth, I think this house is only 50 or 60 years old. But best to find out with a bit before making a decision.
   D

5. 
   collarandhames | Mar 12, 2009 06:19am | #12

   As mentioned,, be aware of the actual size.  2x6 now are 5 1/2"  those rafters might be 5 1/2, 5 3/4, or 6"  There was  a bit of a difference depending on the age.

   Cool to reuse, 
   People have been doing it for centuries.  They found a 1500's timberframe in england with recycled timbers in it! 

   Wonder how much time Breaktimers find in the wood lot.  I did a load of 2x4's for a client last week,, pretty labour intensive, but he's happy!

   d

    

    

1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 12, 2009 02:11pm | #17

   Thanks. I checked 3 or 4 of the rafters and was surprised to see that they all were 5 1/4." THe house is probably 60 or so years old.

6. 
   FNbenthayer | Mar 12, 2009 01:37pm | #15

   I'd upsell a potting shed or other out building made from the old rafters.

   IMHO, getting a new roof over the house trumps recycling, as in the long run, water damage is more expensive than framing lumber.

    

    

    

    

   The awful thing is that beauty is mysterious as well as terrible. God and the devil are fighting there, and the battlefield is the heart of man.
   - Fyodor Dostoyevski

7. 
   Piffin | Mar 12, 2009 01:54pm | #16

   You are likely to find that you only have half as much useable as you think you have due to waste factor - cups and crowns.

   Then you spend more in labor to make this happen.

   So from a cost perspective, you do not save any serious money by doing this, but I still do it where it is workable just because it is wrong to waste things.

    

    

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   Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
    where ...
   Excellence is its own reward!

8. 
   frenchy | Mar 12, 2009 04:42pm | #20

   Only in America is the practice of all new wood common..  I saved every 2x4  etc when I tore down my old house and I've used them all inside my new one..   Yes I spent some time doing it so it's not really "free" wood  but depending on how old the old house is you can find some of those giant 2000 year old douglas firs in there..

     One warning or note.. wood that is really dried is hard!

    Don't be surprised if you have to pull out your hammer to set nails fired into old growth dried trees!  Further don't be surprised when the nails bend over.  I do mean really hard!

      If the studs are too short double plate top and bottom will usually take care of it.. As for curves and bows etc.. those nice staraght semi green studs that you buy will curve and bow too as they dry they will just do it after the frammer has left so he won't have to worry about it..

    Further note use a crow bar rather than a hammer to pull nails.. It's relatively easy to break a hammer handle  pulling nails and so much easier with a crow bar!

1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 12, 2009 07:14pm | #21

   Thanks Frenchy,
   D

9. 
   hipaul | Mar 13, 2009 06:08pm | #27

   I reuse a lot of old doug fir framing pulled out of turn of the century houses here in the PNW.

   As everyone has said, it is a PITA. Much harder, more splits, nails, etc. But that being said, it doesn't stop me from doing it. And, just like the discussion about crowning, once you get into the routines of it, it becomes as easy as anything else that you do. It will take more time, but I imagine you're looking at the possibility of doing this from a sustainability point as opposed to purely financial?

   The best situation would be if your framer had a low-cost helper who could just cull through the material after it's deconstructed, pull nails, cut an end off each piece, look for anything really nasty, basically have it prepped and piled so that the framer can just measure, cut , and install.
   If they really are pretty much all 5 1/4" you can fur the wall out with 1/4" material pretty quickly to match new studs as needed.

   If you all decide not to take on the extra time and money to reuse the wood, make sure you get it off to someone who will. As suggested before, donate it HfH, or put an ad out to donate or sell it.
   The stuff I don't use for framing I keep in my shop and use for door and cabinet parts. Old vg fir studs and rafters become beautiful full size door stiles and rails, with much less chance of any warping once installed. Or mill it into trim (gotta metal wand that bigtime before milling though)
   There's a lot of furniture around here built out of it as well. This is a bookcase I made out of old rafter and stud material (plus 50 year fir shelves). The top is the stove cutout from some ipe countertops I made on another job.

   Don't know where you are, but wood like that is becoming harder and harder to find, and can live another hundred years with a renewed purpose.

   
1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 13, 2009 08:01pm | #28

   Thanks Paul,Yes, the customer and I, want to recycle out of principle and not just financial. I also don't think that the rafters will have a lot of nails to pull as most should come out when separating the rafters from the 1x roof sheathing. If most of the rafters are usable, we'll have enough for all the studs and bottom and top plates to the second floor. The walls of the second floor will be 6' knee walls and each rafter is 15'. Also, the re-uses you attached are beautiful. Nice work and thanks for the info.
   D

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 13, 2009 09:45pm | #29

   "most should come out when separating the rafters from the 1x roof sheathing"Have you ever done this before?The nails pull thru the plywood more often and sometimes the heads come off before they exit the wood.It is far more efficient to drive them tight and then look out for them when cutting lengths and don't rip cut. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 14, 2009 12:03am | #30

   Piffen,
   No, I haven't pulled rafters from the sheathing so thanks for tip. If the nails rip through the sheathing and stay in the rafters, I'll follow your tip. THere'll be no need to rip.
   D

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Mar 14, 2009 05:00pm | #31

   Nice job on the old wood.
   As for the framer fire him! What is the big deal just about every new 2x6 is barley 5 5/8 and bleeding water.
   Yes they are hard but it will do just fine. Some folks are just so spoiled/stupid they can't think about reusing anything. If your framer is worth a pinch of coon #### it would not be an issue. Crown's something I learned when I was 15! Todays trades are so spoiled unless it comes wrapped in 3 layers of packaging they have no idea.
   I have helped demolish old houses and rebuilt a barn from the old lumber, I would rather romance an old stick of wood than try to make a straight wall from a fresh batch of studs that turn to airplane propellers as soon as the banding comes off.When using vintage wood you don't have to worry about nail pops and twisting after the fact. Yes it might be a bit more labor but when done you have less to worry about.

2. 
   frenchy | Mar 14, 2009 05:21pm | #32

   Amen to that!

      I use nippers to pull a nail head loose enough to grab it with a crowbar and pull it the rest of the way out. I started using a pair of dycks (diagonal wire cutters) but found I got more leverage with nippers..

    However Piffin is right you can just pound the nails in flush if you aren't fussy and that's faster..

3. 
   Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 05:48pm | #33

   I'm trying to figure out why you are telling Hipaul to fire his framer. I don't think he has mentioned having one.But go easy on the framers. When I started in back in early seventies, I remember when framers increased their charges to about two dollars a foot. Now a lot of them can still only get the same price after all this time and inflation, esp where there are lots of immigrants framing.So when a guy is barely making ends meet, to overload him with a process that will slow him down and maybe cost him another saw blade or apiece of metal in his eye without making up for it in extra pay is not playing fair at all. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

4. 
   Sphere | Mar 14, 2009 06:07pm | #34

   Ya know? I been reading along here and still can't see how it has been determined that a 60 Y.O. house has been claimed to have "old , hard, Doug Fir"...seems to me I've seen homes from the 50's that had SPF used in framing.  There may be no issues at all regarding horrible hardness or hopelessly embedded nails.

   A lot of assumptions, myself included, going on.

   All that aside, I have and continue to use reclaimed lumber, and it most definitly takes longer to work with, no matter what the species. I start out with good intentions, soon get weary of denailing, and culling and run out and buy some new wood..LOL

   Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

   Edited 3/14/2009 11:08 am ET by Sphere

5. 
   frenchy | Mar 14, 2009 06:44pm | #35

   sphere,

    If I've read your posts correctly you live in the Appalacians. When ever I've driven through them  (admittedly not in the last 20+ years) I used to see small and modest sized sawmills all over..   When you go out and buy new wood may I assume that's your source? or do you buy from lumberyards/big box stores?? 

     One hint I'm sure you're aware but I find that denailing goes a lot easier if I use a nippers to pull the head up enough to get under it witha nice long cow bar.. I love leverage when removing nails!

6. 
   Sphere | Mar 14, 2009 07:14pm | #38

   I do both. Recently found a guy about 2 miles away with a great band mill, he has incredible lumber and prices ALMOST as low as you had quoted. I got my Cedar ( Juniper actully) at .75cents a BF , 9' long, rough 1" and 5-14" wide.

   Walnut, cherry, Oak , Maple , Locust, Sycamore, Hackberry, Hickory, Ky. Coffee tree, Ginko, Sassafrass...LOL all 1.00 a BF.

   Poplar and Pine....50 cents a BF.

   But for shed building and chicken coops and utility , I will still go to the local Lowes ( our family yard is HORRIBLE) for 2x6 and larger..and sheet goods of course.

   For GOOD stuff at higherr prices, we have yard in Lexington ( an hour away) for specialties or exotics..and Redwood/Red cedar type stuff.

   I've more wood than the time to work it.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

7. 
   Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 06:52pm | #36

   in the east, I see more SPF framing, and out west DF framing was more the norm. That SYP you have down there gets pretty tight after fifty years too.Up here, most framing is spruce, rough cut off the island if older than twenty-thirty some years. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

8. 
   frenchy | Mar 14, 2009 06:58pm | #37

   most of my home was DF.  However the empire builder was one of the prime means of shipping from the pacific northwest.. Sad to say they cleared out most of those giant white pine a few decades earlier than my old house was built but the tight grain of some of those douglas fir must have come from those giant 2000 year old trees.. Honest!  You need to use a magnafing glass to count growth rings..   Talk about heavy and solid!

9. 
   Sphere | Mar 14, 2009 07:23pm | #39

   I razed a few shacks in NC, and old barns. The one building that stands out was a house that was that age, it was all SYP and yep, it was HARD.  I had all but wished I had not brought that pile of lumber home. It was nasty.

   But sometimes, ya take one of them, cuz the locals get to know you do something with the wood...and then ya get a chestnut barn frame..I got one barn that I was PAID to remove and sold the timber for over 6,000.00$. I would have kept it, but the iron was hot, so I hit it.

   I could have dismantled this house and sold the logs for a handsome profit , but the wife wanted a roof over her head and not a tent or trailer in the yard..go figure.

   We've got old laminated cut nails that are truely impossible to remove, I believe they were hammered in when the logs were plenty green..wrought iron, not steel..if they don't crumble, they are stuck real good, cuz the logs shrunk up titer than a frogsass.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

   Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

    

   They kill Prophets, for Profits.

    

    

10. 
    Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 08:42pm | #40

    Talk about wishing for recycles in the past...one of my first remo type jobs here was to turn a walkout raw basement of a housed built on poles into a nice space so it got all real footings and walls. The old 8x8" x 10 posts were heart pine, as was a couple of 8x14 long timbers that all came out. My shop now has a ot of the posts and I have one of the timbers as a beam in my basement under the floor jousts for upstairs.It was only later that I realized what value they had as recycle. The posts had a couple small knots, and summer wood, but the beam timbers would have made perfect VG clear flooring at 20 rings to the inch 

     

    Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

11. 
    Sphere | Mar 14, 2009 09:04pm | #41

    I guess I told ya, this is a saddle bag log home..I have a roof over both cabins and that annoying dog trot all the way up under the middle dormer..well they had truncated the logs that tie the plate walls to allow passage betwixt the two upper "lofts". So, I got 1 or two at the most through logs acting in tension for the roof thrust, that tension is the dovetails..LOL

    Recall that the additon rafters set ON the ridge ( no board, half lapped cedar poles for rafters)..and the rafters die on the plate log, which is only supported by its corner dovetail...44' 8"x18"

    I am in the newspaper for taxes not paid..I need about 400.00 before 4/10 or they auction it off..I have the $$$ just waiting...but it slays me, that the county can and will sell my damm house, that I paid 30K for, that quick.

    I should shut up, I'm kinda in a bad mood.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

     

    They kill Prophets, for Profits.

     

     

12. 
    Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 10:12pm | #42

    That works different in different states. Down there,once they auction it, is it gone gone? or just on vacation?up here, once the taxes go beyond deadline, the Town seizes it. They can do a variety of things with it, like sit on it, or auction it, or sell via normal RE market, or hold it for a while to let you repay, but the seizure gives them extra leverage. it is theirs. I think it takes three years to get that far overdue. You get listed publicly when you are about a year over.In CO, the procedure was that a lien on the property was what got sold at auction. If you did not pay it off in ( I think) three years, then lein holder became the owner and he had to evict you.
    But if you paid it off, he had a certain interest rate set by the govt gauanteed. It was a pretty fair system with some end cushion for the resident owner, and was a good investment opportunity for the auction buyer. I worked for a guy who bought them regularly. if there was not much interest at the auction, he could pick up a decent house with say ten thousand owed in back tax for less than that by far, knowing that he would be paid by the resident owner ten grand plus interest. if they still continued in default for another three years, he won a house for less than ten grand that he would put on the market after evicting them, clearing title, and fixing it up. 

     

    Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

13. 
    Sphere | Mar 14, 2009 10:27pm | #43

    I dunno..I'm paying Monday anyway..but putting it in the local paper ( w.a zillion others) may affect advertising power.

    I hate bein poor financialy, I am in the shids here.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks

    Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations

     

    They kill Prophets, for Profits.

     

     

14. 
    Piffin | Mar 14, 2009 10:43pm | #44

    Not pretty here.
    Medical costs 

     

    Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

15. 
    DonSWW | Mar 15, 2009 12:33am | #45

    Thanks Shoemaker1,I will put this to the owners and architect and let you know what they decide.D

2. 
   brucet9 | Mar 15, 2009 03:40am | #46

   "As suggested before, donate it HfH..."A nice sentiment, but why would you donate wood, that is so hard and dry that a pro finds it hard to nail and prone to splitting, to a volunteer organization with few skilled people? BruceT

1. 
   hipaul | Mar 15, 2009 03:59am | #47

   HFH sells most of their donations through their ReStore (at least around here). So that wood that gets donated goes into their lumber area and then someone wanting to build a chicken coop or potting table, or whatever else and doesn't want to buy new wood comes along and buys it for pennies on the dollar, gets a good deal, helps recycle old wood, and HFH gets more funds for their good deeds. And if they end up using any of that wood for their building projects, there's no better way for an unskilled person to become skilled than spending a few hours working around some difficult wood! Shoot, the wages that I was getting paid when I first started working with old wood like that pretty much qualified me as a volunteer :-)There's a place here called the rebuilding center that I used to go to when I wanted to find old VG fir to mill down into trim or door parts. Same thing, they do deconstruction and take donations and they stockpile lots of old framing lumber for pennies on the dollar. It's a lot more expensive now than it used to be several years ago now that it's a little more hip to use recycled wood in higher profile projects. They realized they could actually be making some money by separating out the VG stuff and selling it for more.

   Edited 3/14/2009 9:00 pm ET by hipaul

1. 
   brucet9 | Mar 15, 2009 05:51am | #48

   Our H4H chapter doesn't sell used lumber, just doors windows, cabinets, etc."...there's no better way for an unskilled person to become skilled than spending a few hours working around some difficult wood! "Clearly you've never been a Habitat crew leader. Giving day volunteers difficult lumber to work with simply delays progress and leaves them frustrated and unlikely to volunteer again. We want to get the houses built and make the experience a satisfying one for our volunteers so they will want to return, perhaps to make future donations, or at least speak positively about Habitat to their friends.
   BruceT

2. 
   DonSWW | Mar 16, 2009 12:51am | #49

   Paul,Thanks,
   Where are you, or rather the building recycling center, located? I'd like to get in touch with them.
   D

1. 
   DonSWW | Mar 16, 2009 12:56am | #50

   Never mind on the H4H restore. I found the one in the Boston area.
   Thanks,
   D