Curious if anyone has had a cordless tool battery rebuilt? I-net searches show a few companies offering this service and princing seems fair. $25 for 12v, $35 for 18v. I’m looking to send some 12v Dewalts to WC Battery Builders in Anaheim, CA. Anyone know anything about them?
Thanks,
HV
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That sounds very cheap. Google could not find them, at least no on the first 2 pages.
What size batteries are they using?
I have used Primecell a couple of times with very good results.
http://primecell.com/pctools.htm
Hey Bill---glad to hear that things have gone well with Primecell--I remember a thread a while back when you said you were sending some in.Gotta have a 18 volt for my trimsaw redone so I am going to look into it further.Thanks for the update.Mike"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in a while" Mitremike c. 1990" I reject your reality and substitute my own"
Adam Savage---Mythbusters
Check to see if the is a batteriesplus.com near you.They have stores nation wide and they rebuild batteries also.
I looked at the Primecell site. FWIW, I am an electrical engineer and work extensively with batteries.
I'm troubled by several inaccurate statements on their web site
1. They say that batteries should be fully discharged regularly, and they should not be "overfilled". This is incorrect. Fully discharging some chemistries of batteries (e.g. nicads) is harmful to the battery. Others will tolerate it, but there is no benefit in any chemistry for full discharge, and batteries cannot be "overfilled". There is also (and never was) a "memory" in batteries. That myth started with misinterpretation of faulty data from a NASA study, and NASA has spent a lot of time and money to try to stamp out that myth (unsuccessfully, unfortunately).
2. They state that manufacturers stop manufacturing the battery packs when they introduce a new model - so a battery pack for your 5 year old drill will be 5 years old, even if purchased new. I am not aware of ANY manufacturer that does this - if you buy a new battery pack, it's new, not 5 years old.
This further assumes that a 5 year old battery pack that has been stored will be less effective than a new one. Most battery chemistries are consumed through use, not storage - so a 5 year old battery pack in most chemistries will work as well as a new one.
Given the significant errors in their information, I would be hesitant to use them. In fairness, these myths and misinformation are rampant in the aftermarket battery industry, so they are not alone.
Personally, I would stay with the manufacturer's product - it's the only way to have confidence that you are getting the right battery. The wrong battery can damage the tool or worse.
If you don't mind passing on some additional freebee information - If I am not going to use a NiCad or NiMh powered tool for a while, is it best to keep the battery charged or just let it go flat for a period of months and then recharge it just before I need it?
The lifespan of rechargeable batteries is determined mostly by the number of charge/discharge cycles and not so much by shelf life.
Therefore, just let your batteries go dead until you're ready to use them. It's best if you can remember to start charging them up ahead of time so they can receive a full charge. Many of my chargers recommend 16 hours.
-Don
CaseyR: If I am not going to use a NiCad or NiMh powered tool for a while, is it best to keep the battery charged or just let it go flat for a period of months and then recharge it just before I need it?
Thanks for the question - I'm glad I have something to contribute here, seems like I'm usually asking questions :-)
NiCad batteries "wear out" primarily through charge cycles, but they do have a "wet" chemistry that can eventually dry out - so storage for a very long time (10 years +) in unfavorable conditions can harm the battery. In addition, a complete discharge of a NiCad battery will most likely damage the battery. Depending on how the battery pack is designed, the battery may be prevented from self disharging to the point of damage. Still, if left unattended for years, the charge can erode to the point of damage, even with protection circuitry.
Sorry - probably more than you wanted to know :-) For NiCads, I would suggest checking them once a month or so. Pop them in the tool, and if they work at all (i.e. spin the motor), leave them for next month. When they get to the point of being really weak, fully charge them for that month.
However, if you are asking about leaving batteries for 6 months or so - say store them in the off season if you are a contractor that only works in the summer, for example - then I would just fully charge them before storage, store them for the 6 months, and not worry about it.
BTW, heat is the enemy of batteries - so try to store them in the proverbial "cool, dry place".
NiMh are less susceptible to self discharge issues, but I would still treat them the same way - fully charge before storage, if stored longer than six months, check periodically (ideally monthly) and recharge as necessary.
Hope this helps.
Make a fortune, invent a display that shows how much life/charge is left in a battery, like the little ones in the package have.
Between my coworker and I, we have 12 18v dewalt batts, and 4 chargers..and even our initails and numbering each battery, we wind up on a roof or 30' of scaffold with 4 dead or nearly dead batteries..if they just had an indicater or fuel gage on em..or we we paid more attn to which was which..we 'd probly get more done.
BTW, I nealy always charge from the inverter in the van, the hour drive gives me a full batt each way driving, and on weekends sometimes they get an overnight..is that cool?
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
I have been meaning to get my hands on the little GoNO Velcro dots that SpeedCap is selling. Double sided velcro that is red on one side green on the other. I am starting to acquire enough batteries that I can't track what is charged without some sort of help.
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DAMMM! Now that is what I was thinking!
Thank You( and them) !
I gots shopping again going on.........
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
There is no cure for stupid. R. White.
number yur batteries, a felt tip will bo, and always use them in sequence...Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
I spray painted the bottoms of my batteries white, and then numbered them with a sharpie marker. If I'm doing a battery-intensive job I start with low numbers and work up.
Sphere: Make a fortune, invent a display that shows how much life/charge is left in a battery, like the little ones in the package have.
I assume you mean a tester you could plug a battery into to show the remaining life?
Great idea, but it's not practical for most battery chemistries. The preferred battery chemistries maintain pretty much a constant voltage until they die. Unlike "flashlight batteries", where the remaining battery life can be predicted by the voltage, by the time the voltage drops on a rechargable, it's too late.
Products that incorporate a battery life indicator essentially use timers. For example, in laptops they time the usage and measure the current draw to calculate the remaining battery life.
BTW, I nealy always charge from the inverter in the van, the hour drive gives me a full batt each way driving, and on weekends sometimes they get an overnight..is that cool?
Oops, forgot to answer your question.
It depends on the charger. Most of the power tool battery chargers won't overcharge the batteries, so it's safe to leave them in the charger all the time, or overnight, so what you are doing should be fine.
For low end chargers for toy batteries, etc. they typically just trickle charge constantly, and that will damage the battery if left in the charger too long.
NiCads it's better to let go flat. Not sure about NMiH. Lead/acid, of course, must be kept charged.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
DanH:
NiCads it's better to let go flat.
Only if you want to shorten the life of the battery or destroy them. NiCads don't tolerate full discharge well, because the polarity tends to reverse when the voltage drops too low. Sometimes charging will correct the problem, not always, but battery life is diminished either way.
"DanH:
NiCads it's better to let go flat.Only if you want to shorten the life of the battery or destroy them. NiCads don't tolerate full discharge well, because the polarity tends to reverse when the voltage drops too low. "You have problems with reverse polarity only when current is drawn and one or more cells are discharged.He said LET IT GO FLAT. IE natural discharge in respose to the same question where you also suggested doing the same.http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=74235.18
BillHarmann:You have problems with reverse polarity only when current is drawn and one or more cells are discharged.He said LET IT GO FLAT. IE natural discharge in respose to the same question where you also suggested doing the same.
You have problems with reverse polarity only when current is drawn and one or more cells are discharged.
He said LET IT GO FLAT. IE natural discharge in respose to the same question where you also suggested doing the same.
I'm not sure what I wrote that sounded like I was suggesting that batteries be allowed to fully discharge, but I'm sorry for the confusion. I was NOT recommending that, because it can damage the battery.
Cell reversal does not require current draw, unfortunately - a NiCad can eventually self discharge enough to reverse polarity, without any external current draw. The reverse polarity condition occurs when the cell voltage drops below a threshold, whether it's from external current draw or self discharge. It's inherent in the NiCad chemistry - both the polarity reversal and the ability to self discharge.
Cell reversal occurs when more powerful cells cause a weak cell to be "charged" in the opposite direction. Can't happen with self-discharge.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
DanH: Cell reversal occurs when more powerful cells cause a weak cell to be "charged" in the opposite direction. Can't happen with self-discharge.
Unfortunately, that is not correct. Even a single cell by itself can experience reversal due to self-discharge. Self discharge has nothing to do with charging, it's caused by discharge - self or with an external load - that causes the voltage to drop below a threshold.
No, the "threshold" is a rule of thumb to allow one to calculate a lower limit for active discharging.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Cockfight!
O.K., I say we put DanH and decolores9 in a room with two dozen nicad cells, a Fluke 189 and a 337, and leave 'em in there till there's only one standing...one polarity-reversed cell, that is.
:-)
Cliff
CAP: I say we put DanH and decolores9 in a room with two dozen nicad cells, a Fluke 189 and a 337, and leave 'em in there till there's only one standing
LOL. Sounds like fun, but I hate to fight an unarmed opponent ;-)
Honestly, I'm not sure where his information is coming from - it's not like this is rocket science or anything. The information I posted has been common knowledge among engineers for decades - NiCads are not new technology.
If anyone wants to confirm the information I posted, the battery manufacturer's web sites are probably the most accessible source of information.
DanH: No, the "threshold" is a rule of thumb to allow one to calculate a lower limit for active discharging.
What? It's NOT a "rule of thumb" - like I said ( and any battery manufacturer or electrical engineer will readily confirm), if the voltage is allowed to drop below the threshold there is a danger of reverse polarity.
I can suggest some references if you would like to learn about batteries.
That's only when you RUN them flat. If they self-discharge there's no chance of cell reversal.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
DanH:If they self-discharge there's no chance of cell reversal.
Unfortunately, that's incorrect. Self discharge can and does cause reversal - according the manufacturers, it may be the most common cause of reversal.
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Save to Computer - Save to Yahoo! Briefcase ill, Thanks for the input. This is the info I recieved.
Is that cost delivered?
Sometimes it is worth just paying the regular price and avoiding the hassle of exorbitant shipping & handling charges, as well as having somewhere local to go if a product has to be exchanged.
Shipping prices vary by the amount of batteries sent, and Yeah, I know it all adds up. I've given thought to the local service and all the other considerations also.
HV
In general it is best to post a link to the web page and not copy and paste the HTML. But in this case it was helpfullBut I am guessing that what you have is from an email "flyer".If you check the graphic at the top of the page it points to http://batteryrebuilders.com/battery_builders.JPGThere is no WC that was added TEXT.And http://batteryrebuilders.com points to a company in PA.However, doing a google the phone number given let me to this website.http://wcbatteryrebuilders.com/Which has a different logo.And even using the full name as given on their web site - West Coast Battery Builder - google does not show it in their first 3 pages.It is bad form to steal someone else logo.I would be very suspecious.
Bill, I appreciate your input. I too had problems finding thier website. I think I'm gonna send one and see what happens
HV
Unfortunatly most of the batterie paks on cordless tools are not top of line like the price you pay for them. Many tool companies short the consumer on the paks in an effort to keep costs down and be competitive in the market. Like Bill, I have used PrimeCel with great results. They will upgrade your current NiCd cells to a higher capacity or upgrade NiCd for $24.00 more on an 18 volt unit. They have great service and a great product.
k
On the recommendation of DougU, I've had Voltman rebuild two Milwaukees. They work so wonderfully he's doing three Boschs right now.
Another vote for Primecell.
My two drill batteries worked better than new.
Bill
I had two battery packs for my old Craftsman/Ryobi 12V drill rebuilt by the local "Batteries Plus". Cost about 2/3 what a new battery would be. Seemed to give "equivalent to new" performance, if not better.
Another vote for Primecell. I have had many batteries rebuilt, and have never had a problem. I like the upgrade to NiMh. Their service is very fast.
Elliott
About three years ago,IIRC, there was a very lengthy and informative thread on this very subject about how to do it yourself and where to get the replacement battery cells.
Maybe Rez can find it.....(the BT Search Master).
Edited 5/28/2006 12:48 pm by Notchman
I would but I'm still puking after reading a number of posts from a certain poster in the F-word thread.
Pretty bad when it starts making you sick every time you read something from the same guy.
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half of good living is staying out of bad situations
Yeah, I saw that.
Makes me wonder if those who built the Trojan Horse were licensed and bonded, followed structural codes and used SS or Z-Max hangars in the areas requiring PT lumber.
63186.146080.151348.1
be shooting from the hip
half of good living is staying out of bad situations
I think you need to go back further: The thread I remember was mostly about rebuilding your own battery packs and sources of the batteries....
Well, we aim to please.
The hi-lited red is a hint as to the thread I believe you are looking for.
My first thought was 4Lorn and if the thread can't be located a post to him would probably do the job.
be betting 2 to 1
View Image General Discussion - rigid vs. Black & Decker DeWalt
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From:
karl <!----><!---->
10/26/2003 11:16 pm
To:
4Lorn1 <!----><!---->
(32 of 39)
36039.32 in reply to 36039.31
4lorn1,
I decided to do a little comparison testing on the Ridgid 12v drill I bought friday. It is the heavier duty of the two 12 volt models. I started with a freshly charged battery and chucked in a 1/2" brad point drill bit.
I drilled holes in a old sun baked piece of 2x douglas fir framing lumber nonstop until it quit.
It drilled 75 holes.
I then charged up the battery for my 3 yr old panasonic 12volt drill. It is a 3Ah nimh battery. I chucked in the same drill and drilled nonstop until it quit.
It drilled 155 holes.
Additionally the ridgid charger spent 1/2 hour in "evaluate mode" prior to starting its charge cycle. I assume this was to allow it to cool down. (Both drills got pretty hot with the nonstop drilling). The fan on the ridgid charger is not obnoxius but in my 1200 square foot house, you can hear it running from any room in the house. Kind of like a bath fan noise.
I did a quick search and amazon sells the panasonic 12volt with a 3.5ah battery for 179. I paid 159 for the ridgid plus the CA sales tax.
My two year old son is quite eager to start work with either cordless and the panasonic is no problem for him to lift. The ridgid gives him a real challenge to pick it up or move it. The ridgid is also very bulky, both the drill and the case compared to the panasonic.
To be fair I suppose the 18v ridgid would be able to keep up with the 12 volt panasonic in terms of holes drilled and it probably has more torque. The weight would be a huge deterrent for me and the extra torque a non issue as I would use a corded drill for anything larger than 1/2 holes.
I seem to recall you posting in the past about rebuilding battery packs. I tended to agree with the naysayers who claim it is a waste of time. Now as I reflect on how much time I have wasted contemplating ownership of a ridgid drill, I realize the time spent rebuilding a battery pack is of little significance. I still don't know how much time I could end up consuming getting repairs done for "free" or getting "free" replacement battery packs.
My panasonic came with two 3.0 ah batteries. One died six months ago. the other is going strong with more than three years on it. I did buy a replacement 12 volt nicad for it for 60 dollars at the local lumberyard.
The old phrase "pennywise pound foolish" comes to mind as I consider my purchase of the ridgid. I think I will pack it back up and return it next time I am at home depot. If I want to burn anymore time I will experiment with rebuilding the dead panasonic battery pack. Any future cordless tools will continue to be Panasonic for me.
At least I confirmed my faith in Panasonic and don't have to wonder if I should be stocking up on Ridgid before there lifetime warranty expires.
Karl
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half of good living is staying out of bad situations
did you get verb'd????????????Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!<!----><!---->
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
http://www.voltmanbatteries.com/
I've used these guys and have had very good luck with them, sometimes they have deals on e-bay.
Doug