recessed lighting fuse/breaker question
Here is my problem,
One day I was messing around with a switch box trying to get the switches better aligned. There was no short that I was aware of while I was in there, but I assume that must have been the issue. Later at night i come to find all the lights on that single circuit / breaker stop working. There are 8 can lights that take care of the kitchen at 50W (PAR 20) each and 4 florescent shop lights in the cellar on the circuit. The breaker (20amp) had not tripped. I switched it off and on anyway, but no dice. I investigated with a volt meter and found juice at the switches (3 way on the kitchen group) but up at the can /bulb receptacle the is no current. There is a fuse in the can which looks sealed so I can’t check it any further, but it is my assumption that the problem is the fuses. The boxes were for new construction, thermally protected and working fine for the last 6 years.
Does anyone have an alternate opinion or any other thoughts. Has anyone ever had to find and replace the fuses in a can light?
I started to wonder of course why the breaker had not tripped so I took the front panel off and then noticed the ground wire looked burnt. I unhooked the breaker and checked with an ohm meter and it seems to be working fine. 1 with the switch off and 0 with it on. Is this adequate to check a breaker? Any other thoughts?
Thanks
Dave
Replies
there is an open connection in the neutral splice at the switch j-box....
the burnt looking ground....???
.
.
.
?
"I investigated with a volt meter and found juice at the switches (3 way on the kitchen group) "
That is the problem. The juice has gummed up all of the switches. Was it OJ or tomato juice? (Please see tag line).
What did you use to meausre the "juice" at the swiches? And exactly from where to where did you meausre.
Most likely you have a bad connection in that box. Don't forget to check the connections on both the hot and neutrals.
Check connection on both the wire nuts and connections at the switch.
One common cheap way of doing multiple switches is to run the hot and push it into the back stab on the switch and then use the screw terminal to dasy chain to the next one.
"There is a fuse in the can which looks sealed so I can't check it any further"
There is no fuse, it is a thermal protector and self reseting.
Even if it was bad then it would only affect that one fixture.
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
You type faster than me!
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
See Madddog3's post. Open neutral would shut them all down.
I believe the sealed devices in the cans are the thermal high limit switches - problems are doubtful with these, in any event a faulty thermal switch would only kill one light, not all of them.
Try volt meter between hot and the can body (should be grounded) - should show 120v or there abouts, if so the problem is in the neutral side (eliminates breaker and wall switches from the problem list).
Another test would be to turn the wall switch "on" and test in the cans with a "non-contact voltage detector" - it will still beep even with an open neutral. (eliminates breaker and wall switches as problem).
Good luck,
Jim
Never underestimate the value of a sharp pencil or good light.
A "fuse" (probably a thermal cutout) in one can wouldn't knock everything out unless it's badly miswired.
I'm guessing you messed up the wiring while working on the switches. 3-way wiring is easy to mess up.
Thanks everybody,
I went back and redid the neutral that was burnt, actually I re-ran the whole line from the breaker to a junction box because I didn't have enough slack. Re-wired it to the old breaker and the whole circuit worked fine. I then hooked it to a spare breaker and reinstalled it just in case there was an issue with the old one. Still not sure why the breaker didn't trip. Also went back and rechecked the connections at the switches and they were fine with nothing loose or burnt.
As far as what type of juice, I can't say for sure, but I am fond of orange. That must have been it!
I never use the plug ins on receptacles or switches, always the screws with the wire wound in the correct direction and then I wrap the contacts with tape, electrical that is.
Thanks for your help
Dave E.
Sorry. I noticed in the original post it said the ground wire was burnt. I was mistaken it was the neutral.
Dave E.
This thread worries me. A little knowledge can be dangerous, and there are enough mis-statements to make me advise you to get someone to look at it who is REALLY qualified.
Can lights do NOT contain fuses. The "sealed" thing is a temperature switch .... a very important thing for preventing fires. DO NOT mess with it.
Nor does one ordinarily check a breaker with an ohm meter.
Your problem is almost certainly either a bad switch, or a loose connection in that box. As for the "burnt ground wire" in the panel, I cannot imagine what that is all about.
Thanks for your concern,
I agree, a little knowledge can be dangerous. I am concerned as well so I'm having an electrician come out and take a look at it.
David E.