I had a great Brazilian cherry hardwood floor installed in my kitchen prior to lots of other construction. Stupid, I know. Now the floor is scratched up — none of the scratches look too deep, and when I mop the floor down it looks like new again.
It was sealed with an oil-based finish (gloss) originally about six months ago. possible to rent a big orbital floor sander, use a fine grit, sand and recoat? Suggestions? Thanks.
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photos or a pro on site has to see something to make a recommendation
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You need to tell us a bit more.. Is it an engineered flooring product or solid cherry? If an engineered product the answer is probably no..
Perhaps a really skilled floor tech could depending on....
Solid brazilian cherry the probable answer is yes.
Are you going to do this yourself? If so I can talk you through the steps involved.. It's not that hard.
If not get several bids from reliable contractors..
It's solid brazilian cherry. I was hoping to do this myself since I installed the cabinets and all the sheetrock myself and didn't have any problems. I was tempted to just take my orbital sander to it, but I realized that would give very inconsistent results. My flooring guy is swamped with work right now and I'm trying to get this done for the wife before a big party at end of September. Any advice is much appreciated. Thanks.
OK, you can do it with your orbital sander but you won't want to..
Don't rent one of those drum sanders. without experiance using them you are likely to do more damage than repair.
Instead rent on of those square pad orbiting floor sanders. (about 20"x 24")
Now here you need to make a judgement call. How deep are the scratches? or are they dents? If they are dents where no wood was removed you can minise the work you have to do.. Grab your steam iron.. and steam the dents.. I know it sounds crazy but what is happening is you are filling up the smashed fibers with moisture which will help them raise back up.. don't bother on minor scratches or attempt to raise the wood where it is gouged out..
Just the dented areas.. This will take some time. I found steaming the area for a while and then letting it sit.. then come back later and do it again.. keep doing it as long as you see some raising everytime you steam.
Next go rent that sander.. what you want is (if they aren't really deep gouges and scratches) is to start with 36 grit untill you get the floor a universal white.. That's the old finish coming up and will take the most time.. Now switch to your next higher grit (typically 50) and this time you will be done much faster.. If you spent 2 hours on the first part the next grit will be done in say 10 minutes.. What you want to to go over everything once.. take the 36 grit scratches out with the 50 grit. then switch to your next grit say 80 grit and repeat should take about the same amount of time the last one did. All you are doing is removing the 50 grit scratches.
Etc. don't skip any grits or it will take you much longer and you risk having those scratches show up on the finish coats..
I go all the way to the polish screen . Once I've done with that the wood has a burnish to it..
Now wipe up all the powder (I use bath towels) and prepare to give the floor a shellacing..
Here's why shellac.. Shellac is the finest finish there is.. used by Antique restorers and violin makers..
It brings out the beauty of the wood the way no other finish is capable of..
It doesn't look plasticy or dull.. it has beautiful gloss but mainly a real depth to it..
Richness without glitz..
Shellac is also a very durable finish.. My 150 pound dog hasn't ruined my hardwood floors in spite of the fact that he won't clip his claws.. (or let anyone else)
I've been tromping on it for years in my work shoes and it's held up well.
Plus it's the easiest finish in the world to repair if something should scratch or damage it.. No sanding involved..
You might want to impress your guests when you do this, so be sure to wear a tuxedo. (seriously) Grab a rag dampened with a little denatured alcohol and rub briskly while you say abra cadabra. (if you don't have any denatured alcohol a fine single malt scotch will work but require more than twice the rubbing) I recommend the words abra- cadabra-alacazam, hocus-pocus scratch be gone!
You will now see the scratch is gone! (more repair techniques later)
Shellac is safe, the safest finish available.. you've been eating shellac all of your life. It's on Pills and candy. Especially fine chocolates to keep them from melting. ..
If you spill some on your clothes (including that Tuxedo) just wash them, it's gone!
Oh and shellac is extremely easy and fool proof to apply. not to mention it is the least expensive floor finish out there..
Now would you like me to tell you how to shellac the floor and be completely done in 2 hours and odor free 45 minutes after that? where you can walk in your stocking feet and not leave a mark? where you can put all the furniture etc. back that afternoon?
Keep talkin frenchy.Thanks.
OK applying shellac..
Go to your big box store.. Lowes, Home Depot, large paint place. and get a gallon of Zinsslers ultra Blond shellac. (national brand available anyplace) One gallon does about 500 sq.ft.
You could get the amber if you want the floor a little darker. I don't like it myself but some do..
You will also need 2 gallons of denatured alcohol.. Please don't get anything else, thinner doesn't work etc..
You will need a 3M sanding sponge. the yellow fine one. 220 grit but sometimes they are 180 grit either will work)
I'm lazy and hate to bend over so I use one of those lambs wool applicators on a pole..
If you don't mind getting on your knees you can use a big ol barn painting brush. In a pinch I've used my T shirt (just wash and you can wear it next time)
OK mix the 2 gallons of denatured alcohol with the shellac.. stir for 30 seconds or so..
Dip the mop into the shellac and flood it on!
Don't for gods sake attempt to be tidy.. flood it on.. Never go back over anything.. if you missed somethin ,let it go, get it the next coat.. You want to apply it like it's a race!
Shellac dries extremely fast. Make one pass and attempt to come back and it will already be drying.. Now you're going to put streaks and ridges into the finish.. Same if you under dilute it..
(I know what they say on the back of the can, don't follow that)
It will take about 15 minutes to dry hard enough for you to walk in your stocking feet over it.. Now bend down and slide your hand over the floor.. feel those little nubs that got raised with the first coat?
You've got to sand those off..
Easy now, it's really fast. About a second to a second and a half per square foot. (fast huh?)
I use my DA with 220 grit on it and do it even faster.
Do not try to smooth anything out. just get the nubs off.
The reason you are wasting your time trying to smooth things out is because the next coat will melt the first coat and all that effort is wasted..
A second to a second and a half per square foot. Real lick and promise kinda sanding..
check that you've got all the nubs off and any you missed just sand those..
Now wipe up the residue and apply the second coat the same as the first. Flood it on and do it fast. Never go back over anything! This coat will take 1/2 hour to dry. When it is make sure you didn't miss any nubs and if you did just sand those areas..
Now apply the third coat. this will take an hour to dry..
This is where I normally stop.. thicker isn't better with shellac.. it starts to cause trouble in the future if you go too thick..
If you want an insane amount of gloss you can french polish it.. but I'd never go to that level of work on a floor..
OK the bad stuff about shellac..
Water will eventually turn it white.. not right away of course.. takes many, many, hours..
If that happens strip off the white part with denatured alcohol and apply 3 new coats. remember new will melt into old (even decades later) and make a seamless repair..
Same thing with alcohol.. If you pour single malt scotch onto the floor (what are you doing wasting good scotch?) or any other alcoholic beverage you have less time..
Remember though 100 proof booze is only 50% alcohol. so a beer , wine or mixed drinkl gives you a much longer window before damage will occur. 7 proof is 3 1/2 % alcohol. 96 1/2 % water
(and so on)
Ammonia has the same effect, repair it the same way. Pretty simple to remember not to use Ammonia. I mean you don't pour battery acid on the floor do you?
Now good news.. just let the paint bursh mop etc. dry.. next time you need to apply any shellac soak it in denatured alcohol (or the mixture) and it will be as good as new.
You can also clean it in ammonia or denatured alcohol but why waste them?
The fumes.. in really tight spaces open windows, but the doctors office smell goes away quickly. There is a soft sweet smell of the shellac itself for maybe 15 minutes to 1/2 hour after it's dried but that too goes away and then shellac is totally odorless.
Edited 9/9/2009 2:25 pm ET by frenchy
Please get a few more opinions, some people have done one floor in thier house and try to be experts.
There is a reason why you had an oil type finish applied, don't screw it up by listening to another DIY'er on an internet site.
I am NOT a floor finisher, but have finished floors, with many products, including shellac and water based polys and oil finishes. No one can tell you how far to abrade or not without seeing more information presented. Pictures would be better.
I am not gonna tell ya what to use or not to use. I don't have the qualifications and I certainly don't want you to destroy your floor, on my onesided advice.
Yaunnerstand what I'm gettin at?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Yaunnerstand what I'm gettin at?
Yup. Ole polite one.
That's why I asked for photos/more info. A pro won't launch into half baked un-informed addvice at the drop of a hat.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Right, and you and I have had to pay for Liability Ins., and that right there says something about who should follow who's advice.
making a recommendation of how to do something you have done for yrs, and is a trade accepted practice is one thing. Being liable to walking the cow to slaughter by the nose, is another kettle of fish entirely.
Seems to me, I get the gut feeling a roundy round floor buffer/polisher may just do job with a scotchbrite scrubbt or steel wool pad and wax, but thats my gut feeling, and far less likely to require a strip and resand through the entire abrasive spectrum.
But thats my gut speaking, I ain't gonna preach it like some kinda new wonder cure.
I get SO fed up here sometimes with the lunacy.
Hey, last week I thought we had our first eggs! This morning a "missing" chicken ( 3 weeks gone) showed up with 3 chicks following her! Pass it on in the tavern, I got on the bad side and can't get there. LOL. My fed up at the lunacy was my demise.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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THanks everyone for the comments. I am posting/attaching a photo of some of the scratches. Seems to me to be more finish scratches -- I don't feel deep gouges down into the wood. If I do the BONAX cleaner/refresher for a temporary fix, will it hurt my chances when ready to resand in a couple of months? Thanks again.
I'm not familiar with that product, but I can say for certain, anything that does not contain silicone ( not the caulk, the lube and shine) will be a help.
Silicone is the worst finish contaminant known to man. I hate the stuff.
I've worked magic with waxes and polishes and good old elbow grease or even steel wool on a sander or car buffer polisher.
If THAT fails, THEN you start abrading, BUT, NOT from Coarse to fine, you want the Opposite. Start fine and work it..still no good? Go a little coarser, THEN bring it back up..you can save a LOT of time and money that way, and not have a total refinish on yer hands, and or shorten the life of the floor.
Sometimes just a quick coat of Watco or similar will hide a multitude of sins, and be sure to clean well with plenty of clean damp rags before you do anything.
As always, test in an inconspicuous area first.
Good luck, you can do it (G).Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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that looks like minor surface scuffing is all. Not a very good picture and one at angle instead of straight on might tell more, but from what I see and hear so far, surface screening and new top coat should be the MOST you have to do with this.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I to do not recommended any kind of silicon, also as long as you did not wax the floor you can use the BONA Refresher.http://store.mybonahome.com/Finish.aspxAny top coat that you apply will sand off latter when you have it refinished.
Sphere,You want eggs and not chicks? Get rid of the rooster. And only three chicks? You've got a predator somewhere.
I just got RID of 3 roosters , still have 4. One got et by the coyotes. Along with 3 hens, maybe 4 , I forget.
I had straight run, rare breeds, gottem Mar31 IIRC, so they just now started laying.
Free range, but I lock up the coop(s) at night when some roost, some roost in the trees. Some layed in the nest boxes I made, this hen and chicks were under the house in a long , narrow crawl space between the orig. log home, and the new addition foundation wall.
So, it's a toss up and I'm letting nature unfurl her wings as she sees fit ..LOL Xcept them 3 that I gave away, they were LOUD. I don't mind roosters, and I need to let some hens makes chicks, just to make up for attrition. I had 16 or 17 coyotes out there last week about 300 am, and they had the coop surrounded , hooting a hollaring up a storm..I have 4 dogs, in the near vicinity, in their pen..it wasn't a joyful noise.
Once the eggs start full size and every hen , I think I have 9 now, are laying..we move on to the next step.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
"If Brains was lard, you couldn't grease much of a pan"Jed Clampitt
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Do you think he needs to go that far down? I was going to recommend screening the finish and recoating with urethane. Depending on what the photos show.Totally agree with you on the sander type. The big rectangular orbital ones are pretty forgiving.
The simple fact of life is scratches and scrapes are part of a floors life.. the easier it is to repair them, the more often they will be repaired rather than negelected untill a complete redo is called for..
Besides if you've ever seen a shellaced floor you can appreciate real beauty. There is a reason shellac is used on fine wood work.
Thought of you- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TanLmg-RDps
Do you think the scratches go deeper than the finish? Or are they just in the polyurethane?
I assume it's a urethane.
If so, it can be fixed fairly easily. Can you post some pictures? We don't want you in trouble with the wifey.
I will take some photos tonight. 95% of scratches are in finish. A few go a little deeper, but there are no gouges in the wood.
For a temporary Quick fix, It will help hide the scratches and make the floor look better. Try the BONA floor Refresher or Minwax floor Reviver.At a latter date after you get some use out of the floor, when it needs to get refinished, Then Pay for a Professional Refinish.
You may want to try using a wax stick to fill the scratches. Minwax makes them in a number of colors. Rub the stick into the scratch, rub the excess off with a rag, and your done. Maybe add a topcoat over the repair.
Most of the time the hardest part is finding the color that matches closest.
And if it doesn't work, it won't effect any more extreme type fix.
i'll buy what frenchy said on the type of sander,orbital,they are pretty much foolproof.
but screen it with a 100-120,then hit it with 150 and recoat it with a urethane.
frenchy is all about shellac,it's the 8th wonder of the world.
call 10 floor refinshers and ask if they will shellac your cherry floors. that will answer the question.
the older i get ,
the more people tick me off
couple of points..
first; shellac fell out of popularity after WW2 because of all the marketing by the chemical companies.. That advertizing reminds me of PT Barnum . He used to sell white salmon by saying it was guaranteed not to turn pink on you..
In other words.. they sold their features without any jusified claim.
Second; They put shine into it and when it began to look too plasticy they offered satin. Satin paint is shiny paint made dull looking so it doesn't look plasticy.
The real thing doesn't have that problem depth and richness are part of shellac..
Third; Now there are a lot of false myths out there about shellac. Most of which might have a tiny bit of truth to them but nowhere near what the myth claims.
fourth;They also totally ignore shellac's strengths.. among them is the ease of repair, the safety of shellac and the ease of application..
Frankly if I were a floor finisher I wouldn't ever suggest shellac.. you don't want homeowners to see how easy it is to do.. They might be tempted to do it themselves..