I am replacing 1950’s wood sash windows with aluminum clad casements. I live in a high wind area in Colorado. Jeld-Wen and Pella are easily available. Andersen, I am told, does not have an aluminum clad option. I have used Hurd in past but think them expensive for what I got. Any suggestions. Please share your prejudices.
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Replies
I replaced all my windows with Jeld-Wen casements about 2 years ago. I have no complaints. They look good, work well, and seem to holding up well.
I think, without much evidence, that Pella are a notch or two below Jeld-Wen.
I wonder if you want casements in a high wind area. Seems like a strong wind against an open casement could be trouble. Anyway, the installation of the window is really what matters. Any great window will fail if poorly installed. I know others here will have more to say. Or search the archives for lots of rants about poor window installation.
Thanks for your in put. While an open casement can be taken by the wind, I am more concerned about rattling and infiltration. Casements(I am told) are generally better for this. Jeld-wen offers an upgrade for high wind.
This topic has been covered numerous times on Breaktime - if you do a search on "windows" or some related terms, I am sure you will find enough to keep you occupied for an extended period of time. While there are a number of supporters of Pella and Andersen along with other national brands, about all also have their detractors. One point that was made was that you may well want to find out what kind of service you will get from your supplier in case you have problems.
Marvin windows has the best reputation for service, I know of. The products are very well made too.
http://www.marvin.com/?page=JD_Power
Check with one of these vendors in your area:
http://www.marvin.com/?page=where_to_buy&p1=&p2=&p3=&p4=80465&p5=25&p6=16&p7=-1
The answer to your question has many variables. It all depends on how much money you want to spend. In Northern Michigan, similar climate, Pella is considered our benchmark, we have excellent dealer service in Traverse City. Pella make three grades of windows and I am not talking about the Pro-line from Lowes, but the Architectural series which is their top of the line. Jen-Weld and Weather-Shield is the lowest we would consider, then Anderson, Pella and if money is no object Peachtree 700 series or Marvin depending on the look you are after. We just used Pella ARC in $1.5 million lakefront timber frame. Like the other post indicated, your service dealer is almost as important as the windows.
I think you will do well with either. Both will have a 20 year warranty in thier higher end lines, and will have very similar performance. The one thing that has been mentioned is the service aspect, particularly with windows with a 20 year warranty.
I am sure you will deal with the same Jeld-Wen people I do. We have installed lots of Pozzi/Custom windows and the service is great. They store the screens for us and install them after construction is complete, have replaced windows that were broken during construction, and 10+ years into the warranty period will have replacement windows to us within days. I am going to use their new Siteline EX windows in my house.
I don't know if you will work with the same Pella distributor, but while they have a good product to, the customer service I see is lacking. Getting warranty work from them is like pulling teeth for me, even on obvious manufacture defects on windows I wouldn't even take delivery of much less tinted coatings, or leaking seals between the panes 5 or 10 or 19 years down the line.
Rob
Around here we go for Eagle as the top brand with Marvin a close second.
I have never had good luck with Pella's service!
My 5100 sf house hs Pella all around and after 6 years I have had various failures but Pella always says "improperly installed". I am getting ready to try again - my wife handled it last time and thhey just blew her off. Biggest problem is my front door sagging on its hinges. Pella said it was not installed correctly but my builder is the premier builder in this area and and measured it myself - it is plumb and square. The hinges clearly cannot support the weight of the door and because of the sidelights you cannot really beef them up - no material for deeper screws. I would pass on Pella.
I have told in the past about my experience installing.
Let's just say, you are screwed, unless you start a lawsuit against the builder.
Pella around where I live has never approved a single inst. that i HAVE DONE. The crew i work with has installed thousands of windows, but they claim that no matter what we do, it is installed wrong. That and nonresponsive customer service and in my oppion they are at the bottom of the list!
Good luck
On my last Pella order, they sent the wrong screens and flat refused to send new ones and make them fit. No installer error excuse on that one.That was after they had to make the same door four times to get it the right size, and the agent almost ordered 29" windows instead of 2'9" but I caught him just in time, with his finger poised over the "Enter" key on the order
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
My problems are all customer service non attention. We called 5 years ago and am still waiting, and you thought Microsoft was bad!
I have been impressed with a few eagles I have seen.But would not rate them above Marvin. Is their service spectacular to make you think that highly of them?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
well made, all that I have installed!
Marvins are good also.
Pella is a good brand name with no customer support!
Anderson's are alright, an awful lot of money in advertising.
I have Jeldwen in my own house and no problems yet. However we used Jeldwen for a few years and have 2 houses that were installed 2 weeks apart in 2002. We changed 22 sashes in one and I think 21 in the other. All were covered under warranty for free replacement sashes. There was obviously a problem during that timeframe. However we were responsible for the labor to change them out and to refinish the sashes. Their lack of willingness to cover any labor turned me off.
I'm an Andersen guy now!
John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
I have to go with Marvin. Great products and great service. Loosest warranty out there. No problems getting parts. Thet just came out with a replacement casement.
"It is what it is."
Andersen won't cover labour either, that I know of.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I've heard mixed stories. Some say that Andersen will do the replacements.
The biggie for me is that if I need to change a sash, no finishing necessary.John
J.R. Lazaro Builders, Inc.
Indianapolis, In.
I am prejudiced against Pella. Their AL clad are oft reported to have the laps face wrong way and trap water, resulting in rot which they willnot fix.
I'll take Andersen any day over a Pella when same style. Why do you have to have AL?
My favorite lately has been Marvin, and their econo line, Integrity. You will never see rot in an Integrity
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Being in Colorado have you looked into Milguad Windows? Not a bad window but then again you can get better. If Money is one of your buying points you might want to give Milgard a look. If so I could give you the # of the sales rep we use.
any time i have the choice , we choose Andersen..
part of it is the highly competitive NE.. but Andersen has replaced 20 year old slding glass
they replace ( with our dealer's labor ) defective sash
i get van-order pricing if i want to wait 4-5 weeks
they have replacement parts in their inventory that goes back to the '70's
in short , there is no window mfr. who has had my back as much as Andersen
I dislike pella
Marvin is all right, they had some bad history in the '80's, too pricey
Weathershield is dogshid in product & service
Eagle is good now.. but who knows where they will be in 20 years
Me... Andersen is always my first recommendation... my second reccommendation is made based on local history... all mfr's are only as good as their distribution / service system
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Well as you can see, everyone has an opinion. I might as well give you mine. My experience with Pella is bad. I think they make a lousy window. I've had experience with many brands and here in Mass. Andersen comes out on top. I'm doing a full window replacement now with Andersen Woodwrights and I just don't think I could find a better window. My experience with Andersen has been that they stand behind their product and ship out replacement parts immediately. I've replaced rotted 10 yr. old Marvins and Eagles. This is my opinion, I could be wrong.
Whimalar
My favorite high end would definetly be Loewen from Canada. they offer janbs and sashes of douglas fir and a Mahogany interior. And Not a f.j. frame with a pine "sand through veneer". Only one that offers bronze clad exterior to my knowledge. Can you say "Home Equity Loan"/ 2nd mortgage?Also i do beleive that Eagle has just been aquired /merged with Andersen. Eagle is a good value in my opinon.
Pella has always had a reputation for quality product. Anderson is a top quality product as well. I'm assuming you want a wood interior frame/sash. I didn't think JeldWen offered wood frames.
Hurd has always been a top quality window in my book. Primarily because they used the Heat Mirror glass ... Always a top performer energy wise!! Heat Mirror is a cut above the standard low-E glass on the market. Heat Mirror is more expensive ... but you get what you pay for. If the supplier can guarantee the seal in your location, I'd spend the money for it. If you have an extreme summer exposure (east/west and unprotected), the Heat Mirror can be ordered to reduce the impact of the solar load, too (e.g. Heat Mirror HM-33).
Go Marvin... but be prepared to pay for it.
I hate Andersens even though many seem to love them (I should probably look at them again).
Pellas have definitely gone downhill.
Edited 5/21/2008 12:51 pm ET by WindowsGuy
Just curious.....why do you hate Andersen?.View Image
Well, it may be my bad luck, but I've had more trouble with Andersens than any other brand. While I don't install zillions of windows per year like others on this board, I have had enough experience to form what I consider to be a reasonable opinion over the last couple decades.
Less than 10 year old vinyl cladding splitting, bad weather stripping, double insulated panels losing seals, poorly designed (IMHO) hardware have been my experiences with Andersen. It is a fact that all of these things can happen with any other vendor, but I've just run into it more with Andersen.
The last time I looked closely at their products in a showroom was about two years ago, and even then I still liked the design and structural elements of Marvin much better.
As I said, I probably need to take another look at Andersen as I do grow tired of paying Marvin premium prices, but not having had one single problem yet with a Marvin window makes me reluctant to change.
"Less than 10 year old vinyl cladding splitting, bad weather stripping, double insulated panels losing seals, poorly designed (IMHO) hardware have been my experiences with Andersen. It is a fact that all of these things can happen with any other vendor, but I've just run into it more with Andersen."
All those items are covered under their 10 year warrenty.
"All those items are covered under their 10 year warrenty."
I didn't say all those items happened within 10 years. The glass would've been covered.
Andersen's warranty, like most, has exclusions out the ying and requires inspection to be sure the window was installed properly yada yada yada. I can't blame them as poor installation can ruin any window.
More to the point, the warranty does not cover labor. Cracked vinyl cladding requires a complete pull and reinstall. Given that I was going to have to pull the windows anyway, I just put in Marvins. Why would I put Andersens back in only to risk pulling them again in the future? That's assuming they wouldn't exclude them for being improperly installed. 1 window I would replace maybe, but not a whole house's worth.
I view warranties largely as an indicator of how confident the vendor may be of their prouduct's quality. Warranties are also a limited opportunity to recover some value out of a purchase gone bad, but I don't count on it. If I have to use the warranty to remedy an obivous design flaw, that's a cue for me to change vendors. With building product warranties, the labor costs almost always outweigh the material replacement anyway. Fool me once...
Automotive warranties are similar. If I have to take the vehicle in again and again, I don't care how "free" the repairs are, I am dumping that vehicle pronto. I recently dumped a "flagship" BMW because it truly was a big-money-waster that spent more time in the shop getting free repairs than out on the road.
Now electronics warranties I love. Most electronics either die in the first 30 days, or last forever.
End of warranty speech.... :-)
"Less than 10 year old vinyl cladding splitting, bad weather stripping, double insulated panels losing seals, poorly designed (IMHO) hardware have been my experiences with Andersen. It is a fact that all of these things can happen with any other vendor, but I've just run into it more with Andersen."
Actually you did say less then 10 years. If this was a prevalent problem they had in their production.... they'd go out of business in short order, which is not even close to their growth.
My experience with window warrenties is different then yours, which explains my love of Andersen. All manufacturers have a repair/replace clause. I have seen PITA customers left holding the bag for repairs because they whine, complain and threaten lawsuits.... while I see nice, non combatant.... would you like a cup of coffee customers be given the red carpet treatment.
Sorry but I'm assuming your not gonna offer me a cup of joe.
You make too many assumptions and misread too many posts.
Enjoy your Andersens
I've been happy with BF Rich in vinyl clad. I think the Pellas are pretty good, albeit pricey.
I see a lot of kudos to Marvin. My last experience with them was 15 years or so back, and their products were the worst and only products I had trouble with when I remodeled and added on to my personal house. Then, when a family member built a new house, he insisted on Marvin windows, and after a year, the finger joints had all come apart. What a mess. Again, it was a while back. Maybe they've changed. Good luck.
Hello Jack, Did you know that Marvin is the only major player that dips their material after milling it (everyone mills after treating and we all have seen how far penetration usually goes), even if they are doing a custom window they will take the next largest sized stock piece, mill it down and then re-treat. You will find no better warranty and service than Marvin. True they did have a problem in the 80's but that was due to the actual preservative they used and i have never heard anyone filing a complaint about that and getting turned down. In my 15 yrs in the industry both companies i have worked for strictly install marvin (unless customer driven) and i have never had any issues with their product. If you can afford it go with Marvin.
I would like to thank you all for your in put. After all this I am ditching Jeld-Wen and Pella and going back to my Hurd salesman. I thought they would be too expensive; but my dealer will let me pay on delivery, is coming close to matching the big box price, and actually knows what he is talking about. You all have convinced me that service matters as much as product.
Aluminum because some of the other windows are this and fiber glass just does not match closely enough. (Can't afford to do it all at once)
Not Marvin because they are too much (A twenty dollar bottle of wine is only $4 better than a $10 dollar bottle.)
Many Thanks