My house is under construction and the kitchen island is a rather large rectangle at 9′ long with a 16″ granite overhang in the middle. The 3 cm uba tuba granite countertop was to curve from the legs on either side towards the center of the island but the granite company extended the granite on the sides to 9″ beyond the leg before they started the curve. I want them to correct it according to the drawings but they say the counter is glued down and it would crack to take it off. I know this is a large piece of granite and would be difficult to “take back to the shop” to be recut so don’t know if they are being honest with me. Does anyone know if this is something that should be done at the shop or possibly on site and would it crack taking it off? I thought uba tuba was very strong.
Also, could someone tell me when cutting around cabinet legs whether it should curve on the inside corner or be more of a straight angle, corner cut. They curved it and it looks like an arrow rather than a nice square look.
Replies
Not likely anyone can cut it and finish it where it is.............well, maybe with a huge mess.
I don't get it. You had them make something to your specs, which they obviously didn't follow, you let them install it, don't tell me you paid them too.............and NOW you have suddenly discovered a problem??
If you hate it that much, stop the check, take it off and throw it out the door, find a reputable shop to make you a new one the right way.
Sorry.
Eric
I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
take it off and throw it out the door
She's either gonna need Superman, or the entire offensive line of the local college football team. Sell tickets and I'll come to watch, cause that I'd like to see.
To the original poster, there are a few questions, first, are you the GC for your new home? If not, have you discussed this with him? If so, you should probably harrass the heck out of your granite supplier if it bothers you that much. Don't pay until you're happy, otherwise you have no leverage.
I never met a tool I didn't like!
hey eric
the 8'x54" soapstone for my center island that I'll be picking up and installing and cutting weighs exactly 750lbs.....maybe you could come help me pick it up...lol
BE well bro
####The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
...............gets me spinach Olive!!!!!!!!!!!!
Popeye
toot, tootI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Where's everyone getting Home Depot from??
No mention of it at all by the original poster.
Just curious. Not defending HD. Someone does a lousy job, and it's jump on the jump on HD wagon.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
750 ...
t'aint nothing!
U and me got that covered ...
hit the Chiro's today on the long way home from work ...
feeling good.
maybe a 3rd guy in the middle ... just to steady it ....
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Katrina went to New Jersey today to order it.
They told her I need three guys here besides their two on the truck to get the center island slab in.
I kinda find that hard to believe too. Its 56x98 and 1 1/12 thick.
I'll use my guy and have Katrina help....I told her to just fake it....lolThe secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
That's BS too!
don't they "deliver and install"?
when the stone shows on my jobs I just get the heck outta their way ...
I'd ask why I need 3 more people to stand back and watch.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
BS?Course they'll do the installation ...if I wanna pay another $1500-$2000.
There's a lot that needs doing. One island sink cut out to accept an undermount sink which needs to have clip holes and slots drilled in underneath.The counter with the farm sink needs to be in three parts put together and a corner counter and another end counter.Plus I'll be doing a drain to the farm sink routed in.All need to have the eges cut first and then...........Anyone will do anything but ya gotta pay for it....remember? lolThe company is sending two guys to simply deliver it and only $150 seems pretty reasonable to me....actually seems incredably cheap....specially from an hour and a half away in Jersey.I'd like to get good at this cause I have a feeling I may be doing more for others in the future as my house is unique....located where all the rich people see it and when its done.........Anyways....not sure why you say that.....I think we have a misunderstanding here. They're just delivary guys.
BE a linebacker
a......The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means.. I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides, I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace. I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us. http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Edited 1/29/2005 9:32 pm ET by Andy Clifford(Andybuildz)
meant BS as in .. from their end.
Thinking the carry in and install was part of the package deal.
Don't worry ... carry it standing up ...
750 ain't much when ya divide it out!
actually ... why not plan ahead and build a cart. All the granite guys I've used have had one form of cart ... 4 wheels ... an A frame to set it standing up against ...
handles or ropes ...
then ya just gotta lift down to set it on the cart ... then lift up once to set if on the cabs ...
Jeff
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
actually I was thinking of using two of my dolly's to set the edges on and roll right in.
They can back their truck up to my front porch and slide it out onto it....its only two feet high the deck....one front door saddle is the only thing in the way.I would think that they have some sort of system being that this is what they do....I'll let ya know.
Be well linebacker lol
a.....The secret of Zen in two words is, "Not always so"!
When we meet, we say, Namaste'..it means..
I honor the place in you where the entire universe resides,
I honor the place in you of love, of light, of truth, of peace.
I honor the place within you where if you are in that place in you
and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us.
http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
I don't help delivery/installers guys after being sued for helping after being asked to help!
Every granite counter I've seen was glued down with dabs of silicone. Easy to cut and remove. Moving the Uba Tuba won't be easy though.
Uba Tuba is a Home Depot specialty. They require payment in advance. Something is fishy here.... I smell something cheapish.
Your right on the uba tuba.
Getting it out wouldnt be all that difficult, I mean the getting it loose part, picking it up wont be any fun.
They got it there, why cant they get it out of there?
Doug
It isn't only the cutting -- the cut edge will have to be worked and polished and that isn't an on-site job.
IanDG
I love watching the responses to threads like this..............
HO comes here expecting to comiserate.............I'm thinking by now (if she's reading) she's probably on the verge of an anxiety attack!!
Gee, thanks guys for making me feel so much better!!
Eric
is ubatuba heavier than other stone??I Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
is ubatuba heavier than other stone??
Eric, Uba Tuba is a green-black granite, fairly fine grained. Granite is heavier than most other stone.
Yes, thank you very much, I know what Uba Tuba is.
A couple of the posters implied that it was heavy(er).
Just thought I'd ask.
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Ah, that sarcastic smirk is hard to see on my screen!
Hey Eric, it is heavy! Don't know about heavier.
Doug
Bad day?
How'd ya pick up on that???????????
Day??
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
I do not believe that these installers cannot remove the counter without cracking it. They are profesionals and should be able to take care of their mistakes. I'm almost certain they used silicone to glue it down and it would not be too much to remove. Stick to your guns - hold them to this!
Tom
Be careful using the word professionals to describe them.
Quasi-pros, semi-pro, or hacks maybeWould a pro deliver and instal a top that does not meet the design specs?
Would same pro claim that top could not be taken up when pros know that it can?
Would a pro sub his work from HD if this was an HD job?
(aside - should an HO expect anything other than a hacked up mess when dealing with HD? Theoretically yes- butin reality no!)Therefore, it is possible that they did not do the typical and use a few dabs of silicone that can be easily cut loose. maybe they used a whole tube of polyurethene glue....
A hack or semi-pro might have done it that way
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Well, too true but,.. the implication was that they took money for the job therefore they are responsible for fixing it if its not right. Mistakes happen. Doesnt matter if they used silicone or 5 ton epoxy, it needs to be made right. I know what my own work tastes like. I've eaten it.
Tom
No disagreement there, they need to do what they agreed to do before getting paid.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
I think they can definately remove it. The question is how much damage will they do the the cabinets?
Isonene insulators have 3 foot long sawz all blades. A bunch of wedges, a long blade and a can do attitude would do the trick.
It sounds like you are not being tough enough with them.
Buying granite at Home Depot. What did you expect?
All that has been said about them taking it out is correct - but, I think they can fix it on site. they have portable tools that can do it. Messy, but doable. They finished off some stuff in my kitchen on some Baltic Brown. They have transportable edgers that can do the job - uses a bit of water - but they screwed up, they can unscrew down. All edging isn't done w/ huge fixed plant machinery. There is a over-rated router that can be brought in.Go Get 'em!DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
i just fabricated 2 slabs of granite making a large island,sink countertop a buffett top and a hearth. all iused was a12.00 diamond blade,a grinding wheel made for grinding rock and some polishing pads on a grinder.you can do all this right there in the kitchen providing that you can deal with a mess. lot's of dust,and grit every where. i'm not sure about your question on the inside corner but if i understand right they put a fairly large radius around the legs. on mine they are pretty much a 90 degree angle with about a 1/4" radius. i think they look good, but a larger radius would probably be stronger. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.
cuts "can" be done onsite if need be.
so can edges ...
and repolishing is done lotsa times.
it can also be down right outside the doors ....
and what goes in can come out ... so it could live thru a trip to the shop if need be.
But Y do U care ... U ordered one thing and got another.
doesn't really matter if it's the same one done right or a new one done right the first time ...
or ...like ai tell prople all the time .... how much do U "hate it" ...
half price makes alot of things look just fine ....
I can make them replace it ... I can make them replace half your money ...
What's gonna make U sleep better at night?
assuming "they" really did screw up in the first place
which more times than not ... isn't the case.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry in Carpentry
Pgh, PA
Hello!UBATUBA is a city in São Paulo State-Brasil.UBATUBA STONE is a green granite (expensive!)Ubatuba is a Tupi-Guarani word that means MANY(TUBA) CANOES(UBA)!
So, it takes a lot of canoes to transport a slab of this stuff, eh?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Home Depot installers are paid by the store that you bought the stuff from. In effect, the store is the GC. That is why their jobs are prepaid, you have no leverage.
The installers are just doing their job, someone made a mistake in fabrication. They already have their money. Hope you did not sign the work order release.
You need to complain, and complain very loudly if need be, to the manager at the store where you bought the product. Show them the plans (what you paid for), show them what you got. Try a "stop payment" or dispute the charges if you paid with plastic. Do you have a digital camera for pictures of the end result? Call the stores' district manager if need be.
There is also a "Ben Hill" customer satisfaction number that goes to Corporate. It is posted at the exit.
Work with the store manager first, not one of the underlings.
Home Depot has given plenty away for free because of installer mistakes. Do not give up. Would a discount be satisfactory if the counter is left as-is?
Its time to call Tom Martino consumer complaints; If any one can help he can. Check your local radio station.
Stop!! It's not from Home Depot! Just because one guy suggested it....this is how rumours get started.
Anyway, it's a granite store right here in Omaha, Nebraska. Now you know why they probably don't want to take it back to the shop, not to mention it would take all three guys to haul it away, all that cold and snow. brrrrr! I met with the owner yesterday who is the one who made the template and the problem is that he is saying he told me the top was going to be extended 8" from the leg. Had I heard that I would have absoutely said no. He told me a "couple" inches. He expressed concern that I was losing all my countertop seating. Bottom line, he had the drawings and knew the radius we wanted. What is it with contractors who don't look at the plans? I guess you have to be out there every minute and double checking everything before it is installed. They already had to take the kitchen counter back to the shop to be recut. Evidenty didn't fit. (I was out of town for this fiasco) Then they delivered it yesterday and someone forgot to cut the hole for the cooktop so they had to take it back again. Now I know why my decorator wanted me to use another tile shop.
Anyway, as I said, the house is under construction. The floors are wood and not finished yet. I would be concerned about having water in there when they cut it. But the owner and the guys who almost delivered the kitchen counter both said that it would break taking it off.
Any ammunition I can use to persuade them to redo it would be appreciated. Evidenty the "customer is not aways right."
Any ammunition I can use to persuade them to redo it would be appreciated. Evidenty the "customer is not aways right."
Did you pay him yet?? Class outfit; one piece of top, in and out 3 times to get it right, hhhhmmmmmm.
If you have signed (by you & him) copies of the drawings, showing the countertop the way you wanted it, in my book the argument is over.
Don't pay him, what's he gonna do, sue you?? For what?
Make a deal $$$.
It's not gonna break.............unless he epoxied it down. I've seen it done, I don't believe it is the right way, but.
Swallow your pride and call that other stone guy; you know, the higher priced one that you didn't use!!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Now who's assuming!
moiI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Hey, you are not alone.
Last fall I was on a project where the owner of the stone shop templated some counters on a late Friday. He got 3 of 6 right.
2 could be saved. They had extra overhang in the front. They cut them off at the house, out in the driveway and polished them there. The sheen wasn't quite the same, but you had to look hard to notice.
The one that could not be saved was the 114" x 54" island. He centered the sink on the wrong side of the cabinet. Didn't have it glued down. He made a feeble attempt to sell the customer on it. Customer said "No, every time I look at this for the next 30 years I am going to see the mistake." Stone shop ate the cost of a new one.
Another thought about cutting it in place without the mess. I was on another project where the owners had already moved in, and the corion counter needed some work. The Corion shop had a frame made of PVC plumbing pipe that they set up around the work area, then draped plastic over it and taped it to the floor.
They hooked up a blower inside the "tent", and piped it to the outside. It kept the mess under control.
Bowz
Sorry, didn't read all the responses before pitching in my 2 cents worth. Just wanted to let you know that a friend of mine just had a counter installed with similar problems. The sink was supposed to be an undermount and they installed it as a drop in. The granite sub had no problem removing it from the cabinets, although it was in pieces when I saw it. If it didn't match your drawing the company should stand good for the mistake.
Good Luck - Jack Gill
I believe someone else surmised that the granite had come from Home Depot, not the original poster.
Have them remove it. If it breaks (which I strongly doubt), it's their problem. They made the top incorrectly. Make them do it right. And not in your home. You should not have to deal with their incompetence by having to worry about a messy (very, very dusty) fix done in your house. Especially if you might have a fancier edge treatment, such as an ogee edge for example.
I just got finished working on a house that had a few granite issues. Everybody seemed to have forgotten the pop-up down draft for the range. 1st there wasn't enough room in the counter top for the range and the pop-up. That was enlarged in place. New construction, not too messy, not really a big deal...but then the 2nd issue was discovered: there was an over hanging bar top, kinda kept the pop-up from popping all the way up<G> A notch satisfied everyone, but it had to be done in the shop. L-shaped bartop. 3pcs, got them all loose, one hit another...turned into 4 pieces!Hey, it all worked out! Don't worry, we can fix that later!
I can't believe something this costly isn't signed off on before they proceed with cutting. Then there would be no misunderstanding. I'll bet they do this from now on. I guess cutting at the site is not so much an issue if it is for a downdraft or sink, because the edges don't need to be polished. It's the polish that may not come out right. I don't know. First time I ever had granite.
By the way, how does one insert a picture into the message?
I've seen granite cut, rounded over and polished on site that came out beautifully.Communication and never assume nothin' seem to be the key LOLAs far as posting pics, I'm pretty sure that's magic, ha,ha,ha!Nah, hit the attach files button below the message box, then browse for your pic, punch upload, then patiently wait 'til it says done. Then hit post. Viola<G>...and good luck Don't worry, we can fix that later!
EVEN
I'll bet they do this from now on.
Don't count on it!!!
I think the most common mistake in a kitchen is the counter tops. And its usually granite issues.
Regarding the Uba Tuba, don't matter if you bought it at Home Depot or the high end fabricator in you area, you paid for something with the expectation of getting a specific product.
I wouldn't settle for anything less than that.
To insert a picture go to "attach files" and follow the commands.
Doug
I think the most common mistake in a kitchen is the counter tops. And its usually granite issues.
I've seen this easily avoided by the better companies working in that arena.
Call us when, and not until all the base cabs are correctly installed in their proper locations.
Man comes out with a stack of 4" rips of luan plywood, cuts them to fit with proper overhangs (while contractor or ho watches and participates)glues them up with hot melt, labels them to the client and off he goes.
Comes back in a week or two with tops (and original templates)done right the first time that fit.
He doesn't eat anything except a samich for lunch.
My God, must be some kinda genious!!!
EricI Love A Hand That Meets My Own,
With A Hold That Causes Some Sensation.
Eric
It sounds easy enough!
Why the hell is there so many mistakes then.
If I had to eat all the mistakes it wouldnt take long for me to figure out the problem and correct it, must be so damn much profit in it that they can afford all the errors.
BTW, when I lived in Iowa we used a company out of Des Moines that were impecable, never a problem. They came out and templated, that in itself was worth watching. Their stuff was always dead nuts on. It cant be that difficult.
Down here in TX I see them redo more than they get right!
Doug
Edited 1/27/2005 11:03 pm ET by Doug@es
I know, man. I usta use a countertop company whose motto coulda been "the third time's the charm"...guess that explains why they were so cheap<G>but when they got it right, it was really right... Don't worry, we can fix that later!
Knew a company their workers used the motto, "we know its right we did it twice"
Doug
Doug,
How was the trip back home?
Who were your granite subs out of Des Moines? Waterloo HD uses subs out of Des Moines for their granite work.
Regards,
Dennis
Dennis
Been waiting to see your name on here! Actually couldn't remember the screen name you used so I couldn't do a search.
Lost all access to my e-mail addresses and could not find yours.
We had a good trip, sorta.
Everybody got sick. We took some virus with us when we left TX. When I got back here everybody was getting over it.
E-mail me and I'll fill you in, don't have your address anymore.
I'll have to look up the name of the granite people, but cant imagine them doing any sub work for HD, they are way pricey.
Doug
That's the way my sub out of Home De-Pot did it. Came out perfect first time. They cut sink hole on site; polished the only joint in the top, right in center of sink. Also polished some other minor thing they modified. I cannot even show you what it was, they did such a good job. All HD subs aren't hacks. (That doesn't mean that they are all good, either!)I'm lucky - my HD has a lot of long time employees working there that often know exactly what they are doing. BTW - it's store #134 in Cumming, GA.DonThe GlassMasterworks - If it scratches, I etch it!
Just curious, any developments with this situation?
Yes. They are cutting it tomorrow on site. The change of mind was not out of concern for customer service but because we closed on the house and the rest of the construction loan is in OUR account. So they knew they were going to get an adjustment to their bill if they left it the way it was.
Amazing how money talks, huh? Hopefully the on-site fabrication goes well. Let us know how it goes.
Good luck!
- Steve
Well, they did it (on site) and it wasn't as much of a mess as I thought. Lots of dust in the air but they brought an air filter and it was decent weather so we opened the doors. Didn't seem to add much to the already dusty construction site. They were going to free hand the radius on site which made me uneasy so I sent them home and had my architect chart the correct radius which they then put on their computer at the shop to make a template. All this took longer than the actual cutting. Final result..the new radius looks great and like the elevation in our house plans. I am so glad I stuck to my guns. Wouldn't have without all you guys' support. Thanks a million.
I want to make sure I am understanding this right.I get the impression they recut the radius, laminated a new strip of granite underneath, recut the laminated edge to get a tight glue line and then routered the bullnose and ground/sanded/polished the curve.If I was fabricator I think I would have scrapped the original piece and made up a new one at the shop. I just can't work efficiently enough at a remote site.It is good to think outside the box every now and then to open up new possibilities.thanks for sharing, Karl
Not sure what you mean by "laminated a new strip of granite underneath, recut the laminated edge to get a tight glue line". Nothing was laminated or glued. It is 3" granite and they simply used a cardboard template, used this to mark the radius on the granite, removed the template, cut the granite, then polished the edges. 2 hours.
My mistake on the built up/laminated edge. I hadn't considered it might be 3cm stone. In Northern California virtually everyone uses 2cm stone and glues up double thinck edges.I do all my edge profiling with a water fed router but based on your reply I am assuming your fabricator hand shaped it with a dry diamond grinding cup.Nonetheless 2 hours is impressively quick. Judging by the photo it looks like very good quality work. Glad to hear you ended up with satisfaction.karl
even... looks great !..
View Image
what's for dinner ?
where's my room ?
should i bring my cousins ?Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Glad it worked out well. Thanks for sharing.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi