I’ve got a client that wants some large custom bookcases made for her hallway and she wants them built in a Mission style design. I know it was made of Quarter sawn but was Mission / Stickly Style made out of Red or White quarter sawn Oak? There’s a price difference for each and I want to match some existing furniture she has and I couldn’t tell the difference if the existing was red or white.
BjR
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Replies
I've got a Stickley catalog in front of me, everything is QS White Oak.
Traditionally, white oak.
J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
It's only the white oak that will give you the rays expected in A&C surfaces.
Rays being those lighter specks that run across the grain.
"It's only the white oak that will give you the rays expected in A&C surfaces."
Nope. QS red oak has 'em too -- just not as many or as pronounced. And it can be tough to find QS red oak.
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
should be white oak
but there are some mission/stickley pieces of cherry, too.
It doesn't mean that your customer's existing pieces aren't red oak, tho. RO is cheaper than white, and is used pretty regularly for furniture.
Shep,
Don't forget that Stickley did and does offer Mahogany as well. (but I digress ;-)
Most Mission furniture displays the nice rays found in white oak. It is stronger for bookshelves too, but a bookshelf is unlikely to show much of that figure from white quartersawn, so red is an option.
Post a photo of the existing grain and you can get some opinions.
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Traditionally it's white. But Mission furniture was also made out of cherry, red oak, and mahogany. Qtr sawn mahogany has it's own interesting medulary rays.
Qtr sawn white oak is a very stable good wood for this.
Don't dismiss Sycamore either, it can be more striking than White Oak with the Medullary Rays..beech as well, but smaller.
Sycamore won't fume like white oak, not enough tannin, but a stain can mimic the fumed look quite well. Personally I like a "golden Oak" colorant or amber add in..but orange shellac will work in most cases.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
I have never worked with sycamore ( I love the tree), but have worked with beech and you're right, it has lots & lots of little rays. Not quite as long and tiger like as oak can be but very distinctive.I have some waterfast aniline dyes that mimic the fumed look, I have never tried. They're still in powder form.
I did actually fume a clock mantel that I made once, just to see what it was like. It worked fine, but was a PITA as I recall. Getting the right ammonia and creating the tent etc. I'm just as content to stain if it looks the same. Hand rubbed orange shellac is a great finish for a light wood like white oak.
Refinished an entire apt. in a Brooklyn brownstone that was all beech, including the floor that was parquet with black walnut. It had the built in shutters that closed into their own pockets in the room. Spray lacquered the whole thing, and the other guy was a smoker. He almost lit up in the misty room and I caught him in time. SOB almost sent us into orbit. The finished apt was breath taking.
Sphere,
However Stickley never offered funriture in Sycamore. They did and do offer White Oak, Cherry, and Mahogany (real Honduras Mahogany not the variants also called mahogany)
Red and white oak are the same price here: $2.50/b.f.
Thats a good price if it is quartersawn.. I have a bud with a barn full or mixed grades ,FAS, #1,and#2 common..he's aiming to get 3.00 a BF. And it isn't quartersawn..just flitch cut.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
This is FAS, S2S, SLR 13/16" delivered to my shop free, but not quartersawn (though I can pick a fair amount of "QS" out, if need be.
Sweet deal there..lesssee how far away are you? LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
He said free delivery!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yipppie!Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
White oak is a better wood to work with in my experience. For that reason I'd bet the good stuff is white oak.
"White oak is a better wood to work with in my experience."
LOL. One of my local sawmills refuses to handle white oak -- says it's harder to work with than red, so he only deals with red. Guess it's a personal preference thing.
I use both, and have not noticed any particular difference in workability of the wood itself.
The only difference I notice is that I seem to have about 100 small, festering splinters in each hand after a day working with red. ;-(
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
I find that the dust is harder on my eyes and lings too.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Yeah, my lings get all nasty too..LOLIt's the tyloses in WO that make it denser and thus best for cooperage. A red oak cask would leak like a sieve.Them same tyloses are what your lings are sensing.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Them same tyloses are what your lings are sensing
You think?
As you know, tyloses are those little flaps that block the open pores every now and again. I remember Bruce Hoadley (Understanding Wood) showing the difference between white and red by putting the end of a stick of both into soapy water.
The red made a bubble when he blew into the other end. White, nothing.
There's something in those flaps that's particularly noxious? I figured the difference was in the chemical makeup, part of which caused white oaks to make those flaps.
Only 100% method I know of determining white from red is to take a very clean endgrain slice and look for tyloses. White oak, like black locust and osage-orange, has numerous tyloses. Red oak, almost none.
Hmmmm... my scan didn't upload.
PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Edited 1/16/2008 9:18 am ET by VaTom
Trying again... Had to leave it large to read the text.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
Yeah, the stuff that makes them closed cells is what is floating around in the air, besides the actual ground up cell walls which is celluose,sanding or planeing or cutting up the matrix releases the "stuff". I forget the actual name and chemical make up..but it contributes to the insect resistance and deacy resistance.The flake of the ray is the tylose material, dense and "sharper" fragments than the cell walls produce. Sharper frags mean more irritating to mucus membranes and eyeballs.I gotta hook up with you if I can find yer fone #...got some new news from this side of the mountains.Speaking of wood...gotta ahead out and load up on firewood, bitter cold snap coming this week end, and down to the last wheelbarrow load..
shoot me yer# again? I buzz ya after dark thirty.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
"Success is not spontaneous combustion, you have to set yourself on Fire"
Watch your mailbox. Finally got something a little faster than dialup! Wireless. On the last week of our landline. Sat night's to be 13º here. Might have to light the stove...
Hope DW can teach me to use a cell phone. She's been bugging me for years, fears that I'll spend too long lying injured out in the woods somewhere. One of the risks of solo work. Amazingly, she got the same number for my cell as the land line was. Well, still is for a few more days. I guess they're both ringing for now.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
When I turn oak, I much prefer white over red.
White oak has a much tighter grain, and doesn't splinter as easily as red.
Unfortunately, furniture manufacturers brainwashed people into thinking that red is the preferred species. Probably because its more plentiful, and therefore cheaper.
IMO, white is a much better wood for furniture.
Far as I can tell, the largest difference is in the drying. Faster drying makes either more splintery. White oak, particularly thicker stock, is quite susceptible to develop honeycomb. Very possibly why your mill isn't interested. Your splinters suggest they're in a hurry to get it into/out of the kiln.
Air-dried, as I use, both work very well. No honeycombing, few splinters. The solar kiln stock I used to buy was a little more splintery. Nowhere near as bad as what the major mills dried.PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
White Oak is super hard and dense. It will dull your cutting tools in a very short time. Most people can't tell the difference between white and red. I'd much prefer to work with the red. I only use white oak for outdoor projects as it is naturally rot resistant.
Regards,
Roger