Replies

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 27, 2009 09:25pm | #1

   whites  wil cost  about  half  that  of  reds

   speaking  generally:

   whites  will last  15- 20  years  on  some  of  the areas 

   reds  will last 20-25 years  depending on the  conditions and  which  side

   reds  are  more  formal  than   whites

   reds  will  stay  flatter  than  whites

   whites ( 16" )  will have  a  max  exposure  of  5"

   reds  (  18 "  )

   will have  a max  exposure  of  6"

   generally  ,  you  shouldn't  weave a corner  with  whites

   and  woven  corners  are  fine with  reds

    

   your  choice

   Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/27/2009 2:27 pm ET by MikeSmith

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 27, 2009 10:24pm | #4

   mostly true, in that reds are better and last longer, but I weave whites for a lifetime now, and the whites I am replacing are 70- 100 years old. The ones I did in 91 are not near being ready to replace yet, or even think about it. Your aging scheme would be right for roofs, but siding lasts much longer. 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 27, 2009 10:59pm | #6

   the  only WC they  use  here  are  "EXTRA"

   and  the  ones  from  the  70's  have  been  replaced  years  ago

   we're  working  on  houses  from  the  mid-80's  and  they  have  many  exposures  that  have  nothing  left

   the  red's  are  faring  about  like  i  described

   the  worst  wer is  always  the  south  side

    or ...  any  shingle  with  it's  butt in contact  with  a horizontal  surface..  they're  gone  in  10  yearsMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

1. 
   Piffin | Mar 27, 2009 11:22pm | #8

   "the worst wear is always the south side"Yes UV and on the west wind erosion.But I don't see the wear you do apparently 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 27, 2009 11:36pm | #9

   i  built  two  capes  right  up  the  street   from  my  office

     one  in  '77  and  one  in  '78....  both  with  cedar  clap  fronts  and  WC  on the  other  3  sides

    

   the  one  from  '77  was  resided  two  years  ago

   the  one  from  '78  is  owned  by  a  guy  with  not  much  money..  so  his  should  have  been  resided  10  years  ago  ... but  it  still  hasn't  been

   these  shingles have  many  holes in them  and  the  portion  just  below  each   but  is anywhere  from  1/16 to  1/8 "  thick  ....  all  from  erosion

   here's  the one  from  '78

   View Image

    

   Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

   Edited 3/27/2009 4:37 pm ET by MikeSmith

   
2. 
   Piffin | Mar 27, 2009 11:55pm | #10

   Good example of how the wood in our generation is not as good as it was earlier. Those look almost as bad as some 80 YO shingles on a south face I've torn off 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

3. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 28, 2009 12:08am | #11

   i  think  some of it  has to  do with the  structure  they're on  also

   the  old  summer  houses  around  here  were either  the victorian  "cottages"

   with  no insulation  and  lot's  of  ability  to  dry  to  both   sides...  mostly red cedar

    

   or  they  were  fishing  camps  or  summer    camps..  again  , no insulation  and  the  ability  to  dry  to  both  sides

   these  modern  ones  are invariably  plywood  sheathing  and  15  LB  felt

   fully  insulated...  so ,  a  much  reduced  drying  to  the  back

   the  shingles  get  wet  in a  rain  and  stay  wet  for  longer  periods  of  time

   in  the  spring   they  may  be  wet  the  entire  time  and  don't  really  dry out  on  the back until  julyMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

4. 
   EricPaulson | Mar 28, 2009 01:55am | #13

   Mike, I'm getting confused or I need to check my notes.....drying to both sides.

   Isn't that what a drainage plane behind the shingle provides?

   Unrelated, those shingle look like a little maintainence would have bought them quite a few more birthdays. 

5. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 28, 2009 04:32am | #14

   eric... what does maintenance have to do with a cedar shingle ?

   if you want to put a "preservatve "  on them  ...god bless

   if you want to stain them.... more power to you

    

   but .... people who live in cedar shingled homes do not  put preservatives on them

    

    

   nor do they stain them... nor do they paint them...

   now  .... let's define what we're talking about

   are we talking about  untreated  shingles, or  treated shingles?

   if you stain / paint / preservative them, you are creating a weatherable surface, if you redo the weatherable surface, the the shingles will last forever

   but we are  not talking about shingles that are stained/painted/ or preservative treatedMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

6. 
   EricPaulson | Mar 28, 2009 05:02am | #15

   Mike, I'm getting confused or I need to check my notes.....drying to both sides.

   Isn't that what a drainage plane behind the shingle provides? 

7. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 28, 2009 05:13am | #16

   where did the drainage plane come from ?

   what drainage plane ?Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

8. 
   EricPaulson | Mar 28, 2009 03:20pm | #17

   where did the drainage plane come from ?

   what drainage plane ?

   Look! Up in the air!

   It's a bird!

   It's a plane!

   It's the one we're told to put behind the shingles. Not that I ever have.

   Trying to learn something new, or maybe unlearn something no quite right?

   You gonna work with me here ? 

9. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 28, 2009 05:59pm | #18

   i don't need no stinkin drainage plane and if i did it would be Cedar BreatherMike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

10. 
    theslateman | Mar 28, 2009 06:01pm | #19

    Mike check out the new photo techniques Rich and Steve have helped me with over in Penobscot.

    I think you and Paul are both going to approve.

    Walter

11. 
    1tthorr2 | Mar 28, 2009 08:05pm | #20

    What techs [Rich& Steve] ? 25yrs I've never used rain screen, maybe it's time to learn something new - although I doubt any one will want to pay extra for it. Rain screen info @http://www coastalcontractor.net/article/135.html<http://article/135.html this article is by Mike Guertin          

2. 
   smslaw | Mar 28, 2009 08:41pm | #21

   Plus whites generally weather to grey, reds weather more to brown, although YMMV depending on climate.  I haven't applied reds in decades, but as I recall, they were thicker than whites.

2. 
   ChipTam | Mar 27, 2009 09:40pm | #2

   A lot will depend on where you're located.  Here in Michigan, it's almost impossible to find white cedar shingles whereas, at my summer home in Atlantic Canada, you can't find red cedar.  Mike Smith may be right about those distinctions between red and white but I've used both and, if the quality is the same (for example, "perfections"), I haven't noticed much difference in application or longevity.

   ChipTam 

1. 
   1tthorr2 | Mar 27, 2009 09:44pm | #3

   Thanks I thinks I'll do some more reserch

2. 
   Piffin | Mar 27, 2009 10:27pm | #5

   If you order "perfections" you are going to be getting red cedars.First clear select R&R is the top designation for whites 

    

   Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

1. 
   MikeSmith | Mar 27, 2009 11:14pm | #7

   the  WC  shingle  grading  i'm  familiar  with  is :

    

   best.... EXTRA (  also  "extra clear" )  no  defects in the  bottom  12"

   next  best... CLEAR .... no  defects  in the  bottom 6 "

   next ....  2d Clear  some  knots  &  defects

    

   and.....  UTILITY,  culls  from  the  other  grades

   any  shingle  can  be  R&R  ,  but  it   only  makes  sense  if it's  an  untreated  shingle  to  spend  the  money  on  making R&R's  out  of  EXTRA's

   if   the  mfr. is  going  to  treat  the   shingle  (  like  a Maibec )  then  they   will  sometimes  use  the  next  grade  down  ,  like  a  CLEAR  in  WC

   or  a  #2  ( Red  Label )  in  RC 

    

   RC's  are  graded

   #1  (  Blue Label )

   #2  (  Red label  )

   #3  (  black  label )

   &  #4  undercoursing

   i  know  you  already  know  this... but  some  reading  it  don't Mike Hussein Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore

3. 
   hammer1 | Mar 28, 2009 01:14am | #12

   I've done a lot of whites here in Maine. Homes along the coast are all covered in whites and some are well over 100 yrs' old. You will extend the life of any shingle if you use a preservative. I did my own place in 1980. I didn't have any money and used C grade whites, the cheapest, poorest. knottyest junk you can get. I let the maintenance slip for a few years. Last year I washed, brightened and applied a clear preservative. I'd say they are good for another 20-30 yrs.

   Beat it to fit / Paint it to match