Well I’m in the process of remodeling my kitchen and one of the obstacles I am running into it how to refinish the floor. I have wide plank white pines floors that are about 10 years old.
The initial finishing was done using Duraseal. I have a couple of different situations to deal with, in some places the floor has been worn to bare wood and in 2 places where I am going to be removing cabinets the wood never got any finish applied to it. I will be using the duraseal again.
Yesterday I rented a sander to do some tests. So I sanded the floor down to bare wood using 120 grit. Then next to that I used the sander with a “scrubbing pad” (looked like a giant scotch bright sponge without the sponge part) and in another area I did nothing. So I applied some Duraseal with a rag and rubbed it in good and let it dry.
In all 3 Test areas the spots that where bare wood are now the same color as the rest of the floors but have no sheen to them at all. So heres my questions:
1. When refinishing a duraseal floor is it OK to just apply the seal to bare areas? Should I use mineral spirits first to “prep” the floor?
2. Should I be using a buffer to apply the Duraseal or do I apply by hand then buff out. If so approx how long should I wait to buff. What type of pad should I be using on the buffer?
3. I am using a golden brown color if I add multiple coats of neutral to the stain will that give me the sheen I am looking for?
Thanks for any advice the last thing I want is to have to sand the entire floor just to fix a few blemished areas which is the main reason I went with Duraseal to start with.
-Mark
SYSOP
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More info needed before anyone can offer advice, me thinks.
Which Duraseal finish and which Duraseal sealer are being used here?
http://www.duraseal.com/sections/products.htm
I suspect you're talking about the penetrating wood finish 210 neutral as the sealer. Does this mean you intend to use a poly finish over the top?
Some instructions for that at this link.
http://www.agedwoods.com/html/installation2.html
Thanks for the links. I was trying to be sure that I had all the info that others might need in order to answer the questions.
Yes I did use the Duraseal penetrating finish (stain) and also plan to use the penetrating wood finish 210 neutral as the 2nd and or possibly 3rd coats.
No I will not be using poly, the finish will be the Duraseal with possibly a wax product.
Thanks -Mark
SYSOP[email protected]Have you updated your forum profile lately? Please Do!
Edited 4/11/2005 12:10 pm ET by SYSOP
"the finish will be the Duraseal with possibly a wax product." 1. a. If you are referring to the stain or the sealer mentioned earlier as a finish material - they are not intended to be exposed to wear. Something HAS to protect them.
b. If you aren't using a urethane, then you have to use wax. The acrylic materials out there are modified urethanes.2. Anyhow, I would not recommend a wax finish for a kitchen for a number of reasons:
a. Wax us too soft to endure high traffic, esp when that traffic is defined by many starts, stops and turns.
b.Oils will bond to the wax finish easily. So does dirt, enabling it scuff up the floor more.
c. The detergents you use to clean the floor will also breakdown the wax.
d. You will have to rewax periodically, every 4 - 6 months. This needs to be done with a buffer in order to acheive the heat and pressure rerquired to apply and cure the wax.3. Urethane is the best finish material for a kitchen's wood floor.4. Yeah, on the test patches, the floor coloring seems to be even and consistant. However, when you spot stain and finish the whole floor, the worn areas will look like thay have clouds (lighter and darker areas) around them. Sorry, but there just isn't a shortcut here.5. Do not sand the floor with 120gr paper. Stop at 80gr or 100gr. If you sand with finer than 100gr you will be starting to seal the wood pores and it may prove difficult to accept stain. Then use a 120gr screen. Higher grit screens are okay because they are in essence going against the grain. After the first coat of poly ( or the second coat if you are doing 3 finish coats) screen with 150gr before appying the final coat.Hope this helps,F
"If you are referring to the stain or the sealer mentioned earlier as a finish material - they are not intended to
be exposed to wear. Something HAS to protect them."Evidently, you didnt follow the links at the Duraseal site. Check this one. http://www.duraseal.com/sections/products/cs/stains/pen-fini.htmIt clearly states that this product is intended to be used without any other top-coat and recommends that you don't use one in heavy commercial traffic applications.HOWEVER.....I have hard time believing that a penetrating finish will outlast a few coats of a film type finish without regular maintenance and recoating.It seems that the very fact that this floor finish wore thru to the bare wood in ten years is proof positive of that and consequently I wouldn't personally be inclined to repeat usage of the same product for the same purpose despite the claims. Doesn't seem very "dura" to me at all. Then again, maybe this floor has seen some really hard use and most any finish would have suffered. Impossible to say from here, but ten years just doesn't sound very impressive. Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
I'm sorry for the confusion. I was writing form EXPERIENCE - not a sales brochure. "HOWEVER.....I have hard time believing that a penetrating finish will outlast a few coats of a film type finish without regular maintenance and recoating."
I agree with you, this finish may be great in a bar, where it would be applied once a year and never be scrutinized the way a home's floor would be. In a private home's kitchen - I think not.F
Yes I would use a acetone to clean the floor first, ESPECIALLY in a kitchen where all that grease is. You don't want to melt that stuff into the floor. Be careful with the rags when done.
The color difference could also be a 'suntan' from exposure and the ones under the cabinets didn't. give it a couple years to blend.
I also agree not to go over 80 grit.
Don't even think of using acetone!KABOOM! WHOOSH!F
Mark,
To answer the sheen question you had........yes, if you continue to add more "sealer/finish" to those duller areas...they should come up to the same sheen value as the rest of the floor. Sounds to me like the duller areas right now have simply sucked the sealer in deeper leaving no build-up in the wood fibers at the surface yet. Consequently, "no shine". That first coat should have pretty much soaked those fibers and now that it's set up, additional layers will begin to build on top of that.
Thanks all for the info/advice. To answer a few questions that where raised. Poly is not really an option as the entire first floor of the house was done with the duraseal and we only need to redo the kitchen area.
Yes the duraseal is a high maintenance product but being such a soft wood floor (white Pine) I wouldn't want to use anything but. I know some people have success with Poly on pine but the few that I have seen have been less than desirable and in the end much more work to keep looking good. With the duraseal I just take a rag and hit the "worn" spots and it looks good.
So the 120 grit might have also been a problem so I will go back and use a more course screen. Great info there had never known that.
Thanks -MSYSOP[email protected]Have you updated your forum profile lately? Please Do!
Goldhiller,
That's what I figured on the sheen, add more coats get more sheen. Would you screen/sand the floors between coats? If so what would/do you use? Steel wool is what the site recommends. What kind of buffer/sander machine do you use? I rented one of those square random orbit machines to do the sanding/buffing test the other day and it seemed to work well. Do you think a true round buffing machine would work better? I am concerned about swirl marks in the finished floor. Thoughts? and thanks for the info a great help. -MSYSOP[email protected]Have you updated your forum profile lately? Please Do!
Mark, Not really sure what to suggest here as I haven't used this particular product and I haven't used a penetrating finish on pine for years now......let alone on a white pine floor.As you know, the inherent nature of pine is to absorb liquids unevenly. This is what causes the frequent blotching problems when attempting to stain. And it is this tendency that is probably responsible for the uneveness of the sheen levels you're currently seeing. Without being on site to pass judgement as to whether enough sealer has been absorbed into the wood to allow for screening between coats without chewing up the wood fibers themselves, I'd hate to give advice in that regard.Off the cuff and having read the Duraseal site instructions, I'd say it's safe to forego the screening between coats, so long as you don't have nibs of "stuff" on the surface and each subesequent coat follows the previous one within an accetable time window. If you do have nibs that need removing or the "window" passes you by, then I'd probably suggest doing the steel wool buff that the company recommends. You should be able to get those steel wool pads where you rent the buffer.If you don't plan on waxing the floor, you can likely get a nice final sheen after all coats are applied by simply buffing out the floor with a polishing bonnet. Again, this should also be available where you rent the buffer.These are only general notions and guidelines cause as I said earlier, I'm not familiar with the working characteristics of this particular finish. What might work fine a few weeks after the finish is allowed to cure.....might cause problems (scratch the finish or overheat it) if done early on. Best bet might be to call the company and ask their advice for your particular situation.Knowledge is power, but only if applied in a timely fashion.
Thanks for the info/advice. I did end up calling and speaking to a Duraseal rep and believe it or not they where really very helpful. Took a while to get the right person but once I did most helpful.
Their recomendations are to apply the product and allow to "set" for a short time (5-7 minutes or more depending on temp humidity etc..) then screen with either steel wool or scotch brite type pad. Wait 24 hours apply a second coat repeat until desired results are acheived.
The blotching problems that you mention where/are a concern for sure but after having seen how the floors "mature" I am really not to concerned. Thats the beauty of this type of floor if it gets dented, scratched or worn down to bare wood etc. its all part of the character.
Again Thanks and I'll be sure to post some pics when done. -MSYSOP[email protected]Have you updated your forum profile lately? Please Do!