I’m sanding an oak floor and yesterday I rented the floor sander at Lowes
It’s a different kind of sander
It has three 6″ dia sanding disks, but the disks do not spin around individually
the three disks move in the same direction and at a slow or moderate speed so that very little dust is produced
There is a varathane label on the machine and the sanding disks are varathane
It has a good vacuum and I’m very pleased with the sander and it only costs $35 per day
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Replies
mrfixitusa
Those are DA or dual action sanders. Far easier to control than the old drum sanders aren't they?
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Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
This is the sander:http://www.hammerzone.com/archives/flooring/hardwood/refinish_1/tips/ezv_sander.htmHave you ever used one of these? I really like it!!!
It works a lot better and YOU CAN'T mess up with this type of machine.Yes, I'm going to put on a Shellac finish. LoLSomething I was going to ask you is how do you determine if you've gotten ALL of the scratches out of the floor?In the past I have sanded the floor and looked at it and just couldn't see some of the scratches I had missedTHEN WHEN I PUT ON THE FINISH THE SCRATCHES SHOW UPI think I'm going to go with a "natural" combination stain & sealer and then shellac as a top coatDo you agree that a natural finish helps hide scratches? (as opposed to a darker stained finish)
Don't let the scratches happen in the first place!work in stocking feet, no shoes, soft cords, keep those wheels on that machine cleanBe fanatical that nothing that CAN scratch the floor is allowed in the room while working. I carry the vacumn rather than roll or drag it, etc.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
One more thing - remember to always empty that bag and keep the dust outside the house in a metal container. spontaneous combustion in the dust bag is not uncommon.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
mrfixitusa
I started to use those square pad sanders because they too don't gouge wood like a drum sander can plus they don't need edge sanders..
I think it was Doug who told me about that type which I've avoided thinking it wouldn't be as fast as the square pad sanders..
I guess I was wrong..
Piffin gave you a lot of good advice .. the only thing I would add is work from coarse to fine and don't skip a grit.. 24 grit, 60 grit, 100 grit, 150 grit and finally 220. If they offer a polishing screen use that as well!
It actually goes faster than skipping grits and you quickly see the markes left by the coarser grit removed..
To make it easier to see scratches I grab a damp sponge (damp not wet) and wipe lightly across an area.
As for stain, try a quick coat of over thinned shellac someplace. Say a 3 or 4 foot square. It will dry in 15 minutes. If you don't like the look and still want to stain just wipe it back up with denatured alcohol. it comes up really easily.. I think you will be really surprised at just how wonderful the wood looks with just shellac. I know I am.. (plus it's cheaper and easier)
I think I read somewhere that if you wet the floor with alcohol or paint thinner , the scrathes will show up, but it isn't very good as far as putting VOC's into the air!
I sanded the floor down and then went over it with a denatured alcohol and a rag to remove the saw dustWhen the floor was wet I could see some scratches, but nothing to get too worried aboutMy problem is my eyesight isn't as good as it used to be and I miss some scratches.when I was in high school and I took shop class, the woodworking teacher would take a pencil and make a mark across the board and tell us to sand it out.That way he knew we would do what we were supposed to.Today I thought about taking a pencil and drawing light lines in the floor and then sanding them out and that way I would know I got the floor completely sanded.But I didn't do it.I just went back and forth across the room (kind of like mowing the yard) and I assumed I've gotten it the best I can.I'll put two coats of shellac on tomorrow and try to take a few pictures and post them here.I guess that will give everyone something to look forward to for tomorrow.
After you apply your final coat of Shellac, do you sand it down to give it a satin finish?How about wax?Have you ever applied wax over Shellac?Thanks!
mrfixitusa
I don't believe you will like or feel the need for a satin finish. That's put on a lot of finishes in an attempt to make them look less plastic.. You'll find that shellac doesn't have any of that plastic look to it and thus no need to "dull' the finish.
Bottom line. after you put on your last coat. you're done! stand back and admire it!
Wait 30 days untill the shellac gets as hard as it's going to get.. before waxing..
One note, you only need to sand the first coat of shellac.. that's just to get the little nubs off that are raised. it's real easy sanding use 220 grit block sanding or one of those 3M sanding sponges. DO NOT USE YOUR BARE HANDS!.. don't try to "correct" any mistakes the next coat melts the first coat and will "fix" everything for you.
Edited 8/9/2008 5:27 pm ET by frenchy
I do like the shellac as a finishIt tries quicklyBut I put on several coats of shellac yesterday and I do have some runs and uneven finish.I had mixed the shellac 50 - 50 with denatured alcohol and I probably should have thinned it even more in order to avoid runs and overlappingI applied the shellac with a lambswool pad and I used a handle so that I did not have to get down on my hands and kneesI read on the can that shellac should NOT be used under polyurethane and I thought that was interestingThanks for your input.
"I read on the can that shellac should NOT be used under polyurethane and I thought that was interestingI read on the can that shellac should NOT be used under polyurethane and I thought that was interesting"Does it say that shellac should not be used under polyurethane or does it say that THAT SHELLAC should not be used under polyurethane."SealCoat offers the timesaving versatility of refined shellac in a pre-mixed 2 lb. cut 100% wax-free formula. It’s the perfect sanding sealer because it penetrates the surface, dries quickly, gives a rich tone to wood surfaces and since it contains no waxes or stearates, SealCoat is guaranteed to be compatible with oil-base polyurethanes, acrylic finishes, lacquers, catalyzed finishes and varnishes.SealCoat offers the timesaving versatility of refined shellac in a pre-mixed 2 lb. cut 100% wax-free formula. It’s the perfect sanding sealer because it penetrates the surface, dries quickly, gives a rich tone to wood surfaces and since it contains no waxes or stearates, SealCoat is guaranteed to be compatible with oil-base polyurethanes, acrylic finishes, lacquers, catalyzed finishes and varnishes."http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=72
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thanks Bill - that's interesting
This is what I put on the floorhttp://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=31Interesting that I don't see anything on the website about using it under polyurethaneI bought the shellac at Home Depot for $29 per gallonI'm looking at the can and On the back under "application" it says "Not recommended as a sealer under polyurethane"I guess I don't understand why it would be a problem to use it under polyurethane.
Shellac naturally has a wax in it. That wax can interfer with top coatings.The SealCoat is dewaxed shellac..
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A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Now I got it.Thanks Bill
mrfixitusa
That's exactly why I over thin it and flood it on rather than attempt to be tidy and carefully brush it on..
50/50 mix is a 2 pound cut, I use it as a one pound cut and I really have a flawless floor.. Yes it takes an extra gallon of denatured alcohol but to me that's cheap rather than the effort and skill required to do flawless floors..
It's not too late.. brush a gallon of denatured alcohol over the floor with your lambswool applicator.. it will make the ridges and streaks disappear..
I think I will experiment with spot touch ups with denatured alcohol (as opposed to mopping a coat over the entire floor)The room is about 360 sq feet so it would take about a gallon to do the entire room.I'll experiement in an inconspicuous area and see what happensThanks for everyone's input
you've been busy,i have used that sander at lowes,works pretty good,a little slow but that also makes it harder to screw up the floors. i would of thought you would of had a hard time getting the white out.i have to say i think you did good with getting rid of the white stain,people when they walk in like the natural look of oak,i bet you will be surprised at the comments you get. are your bedrooms nat or carpet? larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Larry I used Citris Strip to strip most of the old white oak stain.This stuff is really good AND there is very little chemical smellhttp://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/citristrip-safer-paint--varnish-stripping-gel-p-464.html?ref=42When you rent the machine you have three choices of sandpaper. The heaviest is 36, then you go to 50, and finally there is 80 gritMy floor was in pretty good shape and I just ran the 50 grit and got it all cleaned up and then hit it with 80 and it looked pretty good and was ready to apply the finish coatI debated whether to carpet the room vs hard wood floors and I went with the hardwood floors.I can refinish the floor cheaper than buying carpet.As far as the rest of the house goes, I have carpet in the bedrooms and hallway.I tempted to take out the carpet and refinish the floors as the entire house has oak floors.BUT wow it's a lot of work. Especially since we're living here and I have to move the furniture.It took me a about 8 days to do the living room - dining room. It's about 13 x 31I had thought about buying beige carpet for $10 at yard at Lowes. About 45 yards total.And I was going to buy their carpet which is 15 ft wide so that I wouldn't have any seams.Anyway, I'll see what happens. during the past week I had calls from 5 realtors wanting to show the house and I had to turn them down becuase of the work on the house.I'm trying to get them back over here this week.Sometimes when they call and you turn them away, it's a turn off, and it's hard to get them to come back.But I've put the new pics in the MLS listing and the house looks a lot better.I would like to sell this house and move into a fixer upper in the riverside area.I looked at a two bed bank repo on Jeannette St one block north of 13th and it's trashed and yet they want 65000 for it I'd need to buy it for quite a bit less. But I really like that area.
Here's some pictures of stripping the floorWhen you are doing a job like it's a headache keeping animals off the floor when the stripper is being usedI also wanted to mention Something that really worked for me was putting thin plastic over the wet citris stripper as this would allow it to soak inI would keep an eye on it, and at just the right time, I would pull up the plastic and the old finish would stick to the plastic making for easy removal.
i can't imgine the mess with stripping. how many days of sanding? whenever i sand a floor i spend lots of time with 36 grit,i get all the spots out i want ,then all the finer grits go quick and smooth it up. usally go to around 100-120.
being as you stripped this did you clog up much paper doing it? thats always my problem + cost of paper. i think the time i used lowes sander i went thru like 50. worth of paper.but the floor looks good.
if your thinking of riverside i would try and stay south of 13th,north is starting to show some decline. next time your in riverside go by 753 [i think?] woodrow,sits on the corner of woodrow and murdock. thats the one i paid 82k for and every day i walk in and shake my head for messing with it. great neighborhood,but the house's are old and are a full time hobby.i don't need a hobby.lol larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Here's one with the plastic being used on the floor
I've had my shellac finish for a week now and I spent some time today on my hands and knees "leveling the shellac finish"There are places where I overlapped when I mopped on the finish and I can see these places.I experimented with denatured alcohol on a soft rag and it works to "polish" the shellac and even it up.BUT what's working really good this evening is to use amonia and water and a soft rag or a scrub pad to polish the shellac and even it outThe amonia dissolves the shellac just as well as the denatured alcohol, AND IT COSTS A LOT LESSWhat's interesting is, if you want to, you can remove ALL of the shellac on the floor just by scrubbing it.I had a couple of places that looked like lumpy jello and if you want to you can just scrub it all off the floor and start over.I've been thinking about floor finishing and my feeling is if you want the floor to have a finish like a nice piece of furniture, I don't think you're going to get a beautiful finish using a LAMBSWOOL MOP type of applicator.It's like trying to use a dripping overloaded mop to apply varnish or polyurethane and it just doesn't seem to work.Not for me anyway.
There was an article recently in FHB on the applicators. One thing that they said was that the pros don't use brand new lamb's wool pads for finish work. First they vacuum them (and maybe wash them too?), then they use 'em for lower coat work a time or two, then after they mellowed a bit, they can be used for the finish work.
There are other applicators out there, including synthetics. Prices are comparable.
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
Thanks Don. That makes sense to wash it out and get the lint etc out of the applicatorI'm trying to put a finish on a floor that looks like a finish on a piece of furniture.My preference is to put on some kind of finish which allows me to mop it on with an applicator, but it needs to stay wet long enough that I can WALK THE FLOOR from one end to the other AND make each pass in the same directionIf I don't do the above I will have runs, overlap, or the worst thing is shiny areas and then dull areas.I've seen hardwood floors that the finish looks so good it almost looks like some kind of wipe on finish with no brush marks, no dull areas, etcThanks again!
I watched a pro do a couple floors at another place about a year ago. IIRC, he cut in the entire floor, then went back and used the applicator in the way you mentioned, like 3 boards wide, sort of end to end, one side to the other. He didn't pour the finish (polyurathane) on the floor, but the pad was pretty wet and he always kept a wet edge. I do remember that he moved quick and didn't waste any time once he got to finishing. I also asked him about shellac as a finish - he said he never used it. Technique may need to be tweaked because of the speed it dries.
Yours looks good from my house. :-)
Don K.
EJG Homes Renovations - New Construction - Rentals
In 1978 I had gone to college for 2 and a half years and I got ready to enroll for another semester and they said "what are you going to major in?"I said "I don't know, don't worry about it"They said "you can't keep going to college and just taking classes""Choose a major or get out"I said okay I want to be a shop teacherSo I took the classes and one of the best classes was called "wood finish 101"The teacher had us cut up pieces of 1/4" or 3/8 thick oak, pine, and walnut into planks which measured about 3" X 9"Then for the rest of the semester we applied different kinds of finishes including:light medium and dark stainspaste wood fillers which were wiped off with burlapsanding sealersconditioning productsalcohol based stainswater based stainsoil based stainsvarnishlacquershellacpolyurethanevarathaneurethanebrush on lacquerwipe off finishes such as watcoIt gave us a chance to have experience with a variety of finishes.He had us experiment with water based finishes that raised the grainWe saw the difference between open grain and closed grain, hardwood, and softwoodI think there was a finish that only consisted of waxWe experimented with making a gloss finish look like satin.Anyway, at the end of the class we had 40 to 50 of those planks and we had put a label on the back of each one and it stated what the finishing process was.Looking back it was really an interesting class.Some of the guys drilled holes in the planks and built a display case It would be handy to have something like this to be able to show your customers the different types of finishes and then they could choose one they like.Edited 8/17/2008 10:31 am by mrfixitusaEdited 8/17/2008 10:43 am by mrfixitusa
Edited 8/17/2008 10:43 am by mrfixitusa
"It would be handy to have something like this to be able to show your customers the different types of finishes and then they could choose one they like."
Bad Idea in my exp. It either befuddles most of them or has you jumping through hoops trying to match it exactly as the sample.
I offer Gloss or not gloss, and about three color options in general. Dark, medium dark, not dark. LOL
IF a customer wants and spells out "Red Mahogony minwax with two coats of gloss poly" I'll do it willingly, and make a test sample for sign off, but I draw the line on too many options.
When "golden oak" was the rage back in the day of "country" and Ducks, and pfahlzgraff blues..Shellac was a great stain/sealer in one. Top coating with a poly was adding more amber, and it sold well. Tehn I switched to waterbased lacquers and I had to use an Amber Add-in from my supplier to get the amer tone dialed in..believe me, all you said about the finishing class, I have done too..it's exhaustive.
For customers, keep it simple, unless specified by them.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Good point about giving too many choicesI'll change direction here a little bit and say what about a seasoned old wood finisher offering a night class for adults to learn about wood finishing?Look at all the popularity of the shows on HGTVfirst day of class let the students sand down a plank with 60 grit then 80 grit then 100 grit then 120 and on and onthen give them their second plank and have them smooth it with a cabinet scraper and don't allow them to use any sandpaper.Maybe even teach the class to painters and cabinetmakersI had a job when I was 18 years old and I helped a guy paint new houses.We got to the inside and he had me applying varnish to an interior door by using a common ordinary 9 inch paint roller.It must have looked okay but I shudder looking back at some of the things I've done when I was learning.I'm just thinking out loud
Edited 8/17/2008 2:19 pm by mrfixitusa
What's been your experience finishing woods WITHOUT using any stain?For example, have you done anything with oak in which the wood was not stained and you just put a finish like varnish or polyurethane on top of a sanding sealer?Seems like most woods need stain to make it look more uniform and to bring out the grain patterns
mrfixitusa,
I've never stained woods unless I want to fake a look or something.. To me the use of shellac pops the grain beautifully.
Of course I go out of my way to display figure and character putting the dull boring straight grain face down or turning it away. Now some like a uniform look and want that straight grain look. To me each knot, whorle, or bit of character adds interest and the use of shellac brings that out to the maximum while stain would tend to minimise it..
I'd guess it depends on what sort of person you are..
I most often do not use a stain unless it's requested or matching existing. Just about everything I do furniture wise and trimming of my own home, is pretty much natural.
In guitar work often a wash stain of an amber or tobbacco color is used to help any tiger or fiddle back gain depth and contrast. Not just on maple but many species benefit from that initial toner. I don't consider that a "stain" as much as an enhancer of inherent quality.
Kiln dried walnut is often left washed out looking vs. air dried with it's varied hues, so it too often needs a little boost.
I never intentionally try to make any wood look like another , such as turning pine into cherry with colorants, ain't gonna happen in my eye. But I have "ebonized" Dogwood and Maple to become a stand alone entity, not intended to be a carbon copy of ebony.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
I think maple Kitchen cabinets with a natural finish are very popular right nowI assume the maple is not stained and it probably has a lacquer finish sprayed on at the factory
Edited 8/18/2008 2:22 pm by mrfixitusa
Yup, and remember, MOST finishes ( water clear, water based excluded) have an amber cast. If you used a WB lacquer or poly, often a blueish hue is what ya get on stark, raw white woods like All Sap Hard Maple, heart wood Maple not as bad.
Folks are accustomed to seeing a yellowing with age, and new ultra clear finishes, that lack that, look queer.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
I'm going to change gears here a little bit and tell you about what happened about 25 years ago when I was working in a vacant house.I opened all the windows and was brushing varnish on a built in cabinet.I was breathing the fumes and didn't realize how strong they wereI didn't have a fan By the end of the day I was pretty light-headed and I went home and went to bed I slept all night and the next morning I felt pretty groggy and light headedI stayed in bed all day the next day and slept most of the dayIt really knocked me for a loopI slept that night and got up the next morning and went back to workI didn't go to the doctor but man I learned my lesson about having proper ventilation
I was priming / sealing with Kilz Original OB in a small room ( my electrician had a small fire from a cig butt in a wasste paper basket in his office) with the door closed ( to get behind it naturally) and it got quite toxic in there.
I finished and drove home , about 5 miles, with my truck cap side tool box lid WIDE OPEN...one side was cased tools like jigsaw, drill, sawzall, laser, etc...and the other side was boxes of fastners and caulks, glues and some paint supplies.
I was so buzzed I never saw the door to the cap box open in the side mirror ( I always checked 2, 3 times when getting in the truck), until I got home and got out..it was the Tools side, not the nails and screws side, and miraculously not a thing had jumped out, and I had a 4WD type driveway, a mile in itself.
Talk about lucky. And OH MAN what a hangover from THAT day..I can still feel it..LOL
My personal best was in Franklin NC, going up 64 to Highlands , about a 2ooo' ele. climb on a switchback road so severe you can see your own brake lights, and goes right thru the Cullasaja Gorge, narrow, with a steeeeeeeep drop on one side to oblivion ( if ya go over, they don't get the vehicle out, MAYBE the bodies..of the fallen driver)..any way, no place to stop or pull over. I had just got my Ford van, and with a lack of coffee that am, I went to work, and the damm back doors opened and started dripping tools..I saw the DeWalt 14.4 Drill bounce, and a paint bucket with brushes, and a few other oddities..I slammed the brakes on trying to get the doors to swing shut, to no avail..finall after babying it to a stopping place, I got em closed.
Never did find all that stuff.
I still drive a van, and never forget that day..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
You gonna play that thing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32Ln-SpJsy0
Back in 1981 I was teaching woodworking and when things got rolling I had kids making projects such as gun cabinets, coffee tables, stereo cabinetsAs you can imagine, at the end of each day we had a barrel full of scrap wood.Pieces of oak, cherry, walnut 1 or 2 inches wide and anywhere from one ft long up to 5 or 6 ftI tried to figure out what I could do to make use of the scraps and I came up with an idea to make cutting boards out of themWe did so and we would mix the colors of wood (light then dark) and then when it came time to put a finish on them we used a special finish We would use COOKING OIL as a finish.Seemed like it worked pretty well.We were taught to use cooking oil as a finish on any projects which would involve contact with foods, such as cutting boards, butcher block, bowl turned on the lathe, etc
Food grade mineral oil is what I use, I had Olive oil or corn oil get rancid...not so good on a cutting board..(g)Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
InterestingThanks!
I stripped the floor and applied minwax natural stain and sealer.Then on Wed I put on a coat of minwax gloss polyurethaneYesterday I put on the second coat of minwax gloss polyurethaneI don't think I need any additional coats of poly.Here is a pic of what I've got right now.What do the professional floor finishers do at this point?Do they go over it with a floor buffer to soften the shine and even things up?
Personally I'd add a coat of satin now, the gloss is harder and the satin is not used for "build coats" , other than that maybe a white pad on a floor buffer. I can't handle the look of gloss , and most others ( with a few exceptions) don't maintain it that way, due to the immense amount of work to keep it looking "wet".
The white pad is about as fine as you get , I think it's on par with 4/0 steelwool. Without the oily contamination from Steel wool.
Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
Thanks!I appreciate it
holy krap batman,you stripped the shellac and redid in poly??? your having way to much fun aren't ya? so your pics show like you've done this in gloss? and you want to kill the shine a little?
you need to get a orbital sander at hd 11x18 pad size and a white pad and scuff the surface to get all the little imperfections out and dull the finish on the floor.this is important because when you come back with the satin you can easily miss a spot ,you can't tell the wet satin from the gloss. but if you dull it down with the pad then you can see it.
use satin minwax and your good to go. heres something i have found if you go to swilliams at 21 /tyler the have a lambswool pad that is about 16" wide,get it. at lowes the have a wide paint pan,it's green that will allow you to use the 16" pad. now your ready. i load that pad pretty good and start at 1 end and start dragging it slowly,you will have a puddle of poly in front of the pad. go the full length if possible if not as far as you can . once you start theres no stopping.
i like the poly better than bee's krap. theres a reason evryone uses poly. man i hopre frenchy don't read this!!!!!!!!
oh be sure to slowly stir the satin,the dulling agent is at the bottom of can,to fast stirring and you get bubbles. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I needed something to do so I stripped the shellacI like the polyurethane and will probably continue to use it in the future One of the problems with oil based polyurethane is the strong smell.It takes 3-4 hours for it to dry and I've had windows open and fans running and the fumes still bother me. I get a sore throat.Thanks for the tip on the wide mop - I'll try that next timeI talked to a guy the other day and he said he was taught to apply polyurethane with a MOPseems like it would be pretty sloppy but he said it worked just fine
Thanks again Larry - I just re-read the part about using a wide applicator and pulling it across the floor and going non stop from one end to the otherThat makes a lot of senseYou have to keep a WET EDGE or you'll have a "cloudy" spot The reason I know this is because I'm having trouble seeing what I'm doingWhat do you do if you miss a spot and have a "cloudy" looking spot on the floor1. Use a foam brush and lightly touch it up ? NO this doesn't work2. Use your lambswool applicator and just go over the cloudy area? NO I don't think you should do that because it's tricky to get the additional poly to "blend in" with what is already there.If you miss a spot, you need to go with another coat for the entire floorIt's difficult or impossible to "touch up" a spot if you're trying to make the finish look like a car's paint job.I'm learning a little more every time I do thisThanks again to everyone for their suggestions.
"I'm learning a little more every time I do this"
pretty soon you'll have the floors wore out.lol
like i said i found out that screening the floors helps alot for seeing whats going on. i usally have several lights set up in doorways so they reflect on the floor also. i'f you miss a small spot with gloss underneath and use satin on top,once it drys take some fine steel wool and scuff the gloss and it will blend into the satin pretty well. i have found that if you have mistakes that after a month of wear and furniture etc. it usally doesn't show that much anyway.
oh also are you using minwax that says on the label "floor poly" i thin it gives you a little longer time to work the finish,i have never had trouble with keeping a wet edge.
keep going they are looking better each time,i think the gloss pics look great. larry if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
one time i did a big room 38'x16 and i had my wife help me i would lay down the poly with the applicator,then when i got half way she would go over it the second time,relly helped smooth it out and keep it wet with that much length.if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
One of my favorite woods for color is poplar. Nice shades varying from almost black (raw umber) to chocolate brown to purple through greens to creamy yellow, yet almost every one paints it
Same here, it's a shame it eventually all becomes a medium brown in time. Maybe thats why it was often painted?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
I've never made anything out of poplarI've never thought of it as a "popular" wood for furniture or cabinetry
Second only to Chestnut as a secondary wood in old cabinet backs and early veneered work. Pop is an excellent core for lum-core ply. I had loads of old furniture parts, from various damaged goods, and once the veneer was off the tops of say drawer units, staved Chestnut was the core, or Poplar.
Pine was most often used for drawer bottoms ( think raised panels, inverted) and poplar an maple for sides.
I love old furniture, it has a tale to tell.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They sell poplar here at Home DepotLooking back I should have used poplar when I made a chimney cupboard which I knew would be painted.I used some kind of pine for the door framesThese were panel doors with 1/4 plywood as the panel.Anyway, the doors warped and twisted over time. The door frame pieces were about 2 1/2 inches wide and the length was probably 36 inches.They Probably would not have warped had I used poplarI was probably trying to save a little money by using the pine.
I've had the high gloss floor for about 4 days now and I really would prefer a satin sheen.The main reason is the high gloss finish SHOWS ALL THE DEFECTS and there are some dimples and scratches in the wood PLUS there are some overlaps in the finishI'm curious to see if the satin sheen will cover up some of these.I have about a quart of gloss poly left overI would like to transform it to satin but don't know how.It DOESN'T affect it if you dilute it with paint thinnerIt's still high glossWhat can I do to it to make it satin?I guess I can mix it with the satin I go buy, but is there anything else?I'm just curious.
NO, don't try to flatten it with anything, it's a propriatary agent they use, some thing like fine silica or talc. It ain't worth screwing up now, just get satin and eat the last qt you have left over, or use it somewhere else.
You can screen/white pad/ steel wool down the sheen on the gloss, but the can says, for floors, 3 coats. I think you said you have two of gloss, so the last should be satin.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
ok thanks!appreciate it
finally got my floor completedI used this 18" lambswool applicator to put two thin coats of satin over the glosshttp://www.instawares.com/lambswool-applicator-block-18.uns4418.0.7.htm?LID=GGLE&ci_src=14110944&ci_sku=UNS4418The difference is night and day between gloss and satinThe floor had a lot of dings and dimples in the wood and the gloss
made the floor look like a car with hail dents.THE DIMPLES DON'T SHOW WITH THE SATING FINISHIt's incredibleI'll have a picture a little later
Good deal. I told ya..LOLSpheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
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Here is the floor with the satin finishI can't tell you how much better it looks from beforeThanks for you help on this one.
now i want you to leave the friking floor alone,your going to start seeing the tounges show if you redo 1 more time!
looks good ,what kinda urethane did you use for the satin.?
have you thought about starting a floor refinishing bussiness,you have more experence than most out there.
time to do the bedrooms.................................. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
Larry, It's minwax oil based satin polyurethaneIt's $26 a gallon at home depotthanks for your tip on using the large lambswool applicatorI bought one at sherwin williams? at 21st and tyler for $20I used it for two coats and you don't want to have to buy another applicator for each coatYou can re-use them if you let them soak in paint thinnerthe satin hides the dings and dimples.something I noticed is you don't ever want to have a "dry edge" with your applicator.I kept having a dry edge when I was mopping on the poly straight from the canIt's thick and sticky. It doesn't flow very well.On my last coat I thinned it a little bit so that it would flow and I didn't have any dry edges Another observation I had was bubbles would form when I mopped the poly on the floor.I would smooth out the bubbles by going over it slowly.Interestingly most of the times the bubbles would evaporate but there are a few spots where there are some dried bubbles.Most people won't be able to see it though.Another mistake I made was putting on a coat in the evening.Yesterday I applied a coat at 6 PM and it was dry enough to walk on it by 9 PM but I had to smell the odors until midnite or 1 AM it finally cleared outI had fans running and the windows open but even so, the smell was pretty bad.Time to move onto the next project.I think I wasted the last month messing around with these floors oh well, lolEdited 9/1/2008 9:56 pm by mrfixitusa
Edited 9/1/2008 9:57 pm by mrfixitusa
i used to have trouble with the bubles,now i drag that applicator fairly slow and don't seem to get any.i never have washed out the applicator,i wrap it in plastic and do the next coat in a day or so,it usally stays wet that long.if you do that put it in a paint tray or something,it will drain out onto something impoartant otherwise,i'm a slow learner..
you should of slept well,your feet were 3 foot off the ground from fumes. larryif a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I saw some unusual furniture today in a business.For displays, the owner had purchased china hutchs, wood bakers racks, other hutch types of cabinets that were shelves with no doors.Anyway, she had painted over the stain and finish and then light sanded to give it a distressed lookIt looked really good for the cabinetry and fixtures in a businessIt looked really modern and contemporary to me anywayHave you ever done any of these types of finishes?On another hutch she had painted it a soft green and then a soft linen white over the green and she lightly sanded the white in some places to let the green show throughTHIS DID NOT LOOK LIKE FAUX PAINTINGIt looked really nice and a professional type of finish
Matter o' fact I have.
Down in Tiger, Ga. A sweet woman (I remember her name cuz it was Thatcher, and her first name was...you guessed it, Margaret).
Took her cab doors , that were factory medium stained maple. Painted them black. Then red, then green. Sanded all the sharp arrises and around the knobs, and various "random" places in the panels...scotch brite, and 120 grit Sandy Paper..kinda dinged here and there with a zero grit (rock from the driveway) in places that would normally take a hit from dishes and stuff.
Then mixed 1/3 qt. Minwax special walnut, to 3/4 qt satin poly..home made poly shades if you will, and glazed the resulting work. Left glaze in the recesses and nooks, like grime would accumulate. It came out great, looked like old cupboards that had been repainted,,many times over.
Now I recall, I had used all the coats other than the glaze wet on wet too, it crackled somewhat..you can buy crackle paint, but I didn't know that then or couldn't get any down there in the sticks.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
The world of people goes up and
down and people go up and down with
their world; warriors have no business
following the ups and downs of their
fellow men.
mrfixitusa.
You see you got in the way of letting shellac do it's own thing.
Those ridges you built up are the direct cause of going too slow with too thick of a finish.. the bumpy spots where from going back over. IF you'd over thinned as I keep preaching and just flood it on quickly that lambs wool applicator would work just fine.
To be honest I've never tried ammonia as a leveling agent. I'm not sure Some wouldn't remain and leave that spot softer and weaker than pure shellac with denatured alcohol.. (I don't know so please correct me if I'm wrong)
I suspect you are a carefull painter who tries to be neat, next time let a teenager do it and tell him to do it as fast as he can <grin>
I think you're rightI'm going to try it again and this time thin it like you've described.What's frustrating is some people could probably apply it FULL STRENGTH and without diluting it and they would make it look great.I'm tempted to brush it on full strength straight out of the can just to see what would happenI would just put on one coat and leave it at that. I like the looks of a thin coat of shellacI would go buy an expensive 3 or 4 inch high quality brush and just see what happens
I was going to say the same thing--I would think that ammonia would compromise the final finish. Alcohol disolves shellac and then the alcohol evaporates--don't know if that is the case with ammonia.
I used the ones with four orbital discs.
With that one - does the larger round rotate while the three individual do the orbital thing?
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Wow, I just looked at it again and each disc spins individually while all three go around at a slow speed.Thanks for your tips about keeping the wheels clean and the vacuum off the floor - I would have never thought of that !
I used one of those too. Pretty simple concept. Three random orbitals with a big weight. Great DC. It is not as fast as the big belt sanders, but it sure does make the job easier to mess up. My mistake was not to start with the 36 grit. My flooring was new, and I didnt think I needed to. As you sand you will notice some spots remain shiny. Dont stop until shiny spots are gone. I tried to remove them with my random orbital after and that just dishes the flooring. I can see it sometimes when the lighting is just right.
Ditto to all Piffin mentioned. I dropped a chiesel on the floor and have a small gouge under a window. Easy to fix, but lets just say I was not happy given the time I spent making the flooring.
Brad
Wow your woodwork looks great!
watched a show this other day they were saying how important it is to vacum between sandings seems like when you start out with the couarser grits the grits fall off of the 60grits and cause the scratches
I've heard that too; good point!
thats why i always watch these shows !! even if they point it out it gets my brain going
I've got some pictures of before and afterI started my project with a "white oak" stained floor that I botches up and it looked terrible.So I stripped the white oak stain, sanded the floor, apply min wax natural stain, and top coat with Shellac
Here are the after pictures.
Looks good! I love wood floors--unfortunately, wife hates them. We have carpet everywhere but in one bathroom. Carpet is quiet, but if wife knew all the crud that was hiding in the carpets...!