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Refinishing Top-Nailed Oak

kevininmaine | Posted in Construction Techniques on February 4, 2014 12:02pm

 Hello – We recently purchased a house built in 1975. The living room floor is a “Rustic Oak” floor. The boards are varying width and are slightly beveled on all four edges. Each one is top nailed at the butt joints with two or three blacksmith nails (for lack of a better name, the heads have an uneven hammered look). Some of the top nails are set below the surface but others bump up slightly.


The floor looks like it has been stained but likely never refinished. It is worn in some areas and lighter in areas where there had once been area rugs. Because of the bevels, the edges are dark.
View Image


My question is – how do I refinish this floor? My first thought was to sand and stain to even the color out and then poly. But I am wondering about the nails ripping up the sander.

FWIW, I had been hoping these were the “decorative tack” type of top nails that could be removed and replaced but they really are 2.5in cut nails.
 
View Image

Thanks.
Kevin.
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Replies

  1. DanH | Feb 04, 2014 08:40am | #1

    Hand sand, I guess.

  2. User avater
    spclark | Feb 04, 2014 09:19am | #2

    Ouch

    What a challenge!!

    Maybe very careful sandblasting? Dealing with the mess would only amplify the aggravation factor though.

    Traditional floor sanders don't seem at all a likely choice, but if you're good on your hands & knees maybe one of the multi-tool sander attachments would let you work around the nails.

    1. AndyEngel | Feb 04, 2014 11:17am | #3

      Sand blasting wouldn't work well - It would eat away the early wood and leave the late wood proud.

      Looks like only a few options to me. Either set the nails and sand normally, or hand sand. You'd need a detail sander or a scraper for between the nails. Good luck. Honestly, it might be less work to tear out this floor and replace it.

      1. DanH | Feb 04, 2014 11:39am | #4

        You might have some success with a floor scrubber pad.

        (Something that's unclear is how much material needs to be removed.)

        1. kevininmaine | Feb 04, 2014 12:25pm | #6

          I agree

          I am thinking of trying out the 11x17 sander with a 1" pad under it. Maybe with a medium grit paper to start. As I said, I think most of the original finish has worn off and I will need to re-stain to even it out.

          I did think of ripping it up and replacing it... very tempted but not in the budget at the moment.

          Kevin.

          1. DoRight | Feb 04, 2014 12:56pm | #7

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          2. AndyEngel | Feb 04, 2014 03:24pm | #10

            HAL wants to know...

            ....what browser you use?

  3. cussnu2 | Feb 04, 2014 12:19pm | #5

    I would second your recommendation.  A floor scrubber or one of the big box square random orbit sanders would be less likely to catch on the nails.  Obviously, any that stand pround should be set and after you sand you'll have to find a way to re-age the nail heads that end up polished.

  4. DoRight | Feb 04, 2014 12:57pm | #8

    post

  5. oldhand | Feb 04, 2014 03:08pm | #9

    how hard are the nails to set?

    That looks quite a bit like an engineered wood floor but hard to say from the pic. If so you need to be careful to not sand off too much.

    I like the idea of setting the nails, it wouldn't take but a small test run to figure out how much trouble that was. A good sized pin punch might make  for a nice oversized nail set.

    1. kevininmaine | Feb 04, 2014 03:32pm | #11

      Re: how hard are the nails to set?

      I have not pulled a board up but it does not feel like an engineered floor - I'm told it was original so it's going on 40 years old. Were they making engineered floors back then?

      Coutersinking is a good idea, my worry is that since they are cut nails, I end up loosening more then I sink. It's definitly worth a try on the more pronounced ones though.

      Thanks

      Kevin.

      1. oldhand | Feb 04, 2014 05:44pm | #15

        probably the egyptians had 'em...

        First I remember of engineered floors was the early '80 s by which time they were readily available. Older  than that I can't say. 

        The older  engineered floors were considered good for a sanding or two anyway.

        If setting doesn't work, someone mentioned maybe removing the nails and plugging the holes, another thought might be to remove the nails and fill the holes. It can be done where it would look fairly decent.

        Bottom line,I don't believe there is any power sanding method you can use passing over the protruding heads without a sandpaper armageddon.

        1. DanH | Feb 04, 2014 07:55pm | #16

          Flooring from `75 has a slight possibility of being laminated but even then the top layer would still be good enough to stand a careful sanding.  They didn't develop the technology to do tissue-thin laminations until about 10 years later.

          But I have serious misgivings about trying to set the nails.  I think a scrubbing pad (perhaps with some stripper) that could tolerate the nails would be a better thing to at least try first.

        2. DanH | Feb 04, 2014 07:59pm | #17

          It's not clear how you could remove the nails without destroying the flooring.

    2. Svenny | Feb 04, 2014 03:39pm | #12

      This is the best option IMHO

      "I like the idea of setting the nails, it wouldn't take but a small test run to figure out how much trouble that was. A good sized pin punch might make  for a nice oversized nail set."

      I couldn't agree more.

      1. User avater
        Mike_Mahan | Feb 04, 2014 04:37pm | #14

        If the material is solid and can stand a decent sanding you could try setting the nails with a palm nailer. It'd sure save a lot of work.

        1. kevininmaine | Feb 05, 2014 12:23am | #19

          Pneumatic nailer to set the nails.

          I thought of this too... except I don't have a palm nailer, I was wondering if I could pull it off with my framing nailer with the pin set to protrude a little.

          Kevin.

  6. User avater
    MarkH | Feb 04, 2014 04:35pm | #13

    Here's my take on the situation.  This would be a lot of work though.  Pull all the nails and put some nice plugs in their place.

    Second thought is a lot of work but also messy.  Strip the floor with paint remover.  The finish is probably not as tough as modern ones, so it may work well.  Use stripper that wont make your house into a potential bomb, or cause brain damage.

    1. kevininmaine | Feb 05, 2014 12:20am | #18

      Top Nailed floor

      Pulling the nails is out of the question - It would destroy the floor in my opinion. I think if I had to go the route, I would replace the floor completly. 

      My plan is to try and set the highest nails and then sand with a random orbit sander and hit any spots that get missed with a palm sander. For a finish; stain to even out the color and the 3 coats of poly. 

      One thing I had not thought to mention is that this is a Deck House (brand) home. If your not familiar with the construction, Deck House buildings are contemporary post and beam structures. In this case, the sub floor is the "deck" it is 3in thick T&G cedar. So, with the 3/4" flooring and a 3" sub - the 2.5in nails are still not protruding into the downstairs ceiling... so that is good.

      Thanks

      Kevin.

      1. User avater
        MarkH | Feb 05, 2014 05:56am | #20

        There are special tools for pulling nails that might work without destroying the floor.  My thoughts on the plugs, they would be large enough to cover all the damage.

        But if you want to try setting the nails I think you would be better off  doing it by hand than with a framing nailer.  The nailer would probably deform the heads.  You could have a tool made with a concave end to roughly match the nails for better results.

        Solid fully cured hardwood may not allow setting the nails adequately, so try an inconspicuous spot first.

        This is an interesting tool, but unsuitable for finish work.

        http://www.cordlessdrillnailpuller.com/

         Imagine the counter bore drill replaced with a small modified forstner bit that works similarly.  The work on the drill bit may require  a machinist to remove the spur and hollow out the center, but it may be possible to do it with a dremel tool. 

  7. jimblodgett | Feb 05, 2014 10:11am | #21

    Rustic look

    Have you considered what you want to end up with?  Is it to bring back the original look, which seems to me to have been an attempt to replicate old square nailed plank floors from...when?...maybe colonial times?

    So my point is, maybe an old, rustic, darkened by age look is the best representation of what is possible with that floor.  It's never gonna be the super consistant, homogenus, flat, smooth look of today's engineered floors, or even the Sweedish finish over red oak look many of us are familiar with from the 70's/80's.

    And no matter what you do, those beveled edges are gonna give you fits unless you comitt to a similarly dark look anyways, right?

    So if you make your peace with that, here's what might be worth a try -

    Somehow clean, degrease, remove as much surface dirt and oil as possible from the entire floor.  In low traffic areas the finish will still be there, but in many places you already know it's gone because even the stain is worn through.  Then find a dark penetrating oil that is closest to the best example of unmolested floor still there - flood coat the entire floor.  Of course the worn areas will accept a lot of oil, the areas with intact finish will reject it completely and all sorts of inbetween saturation will occur as oil finds open pores.  Wet buff that oil with whatever grit steel wool pad you can use without snagging on nail heads.  Repeat.  Again and again using increasingly finer steel wool. 

    At some point, maybe 5 coats in, maybe 15, the color density won't change and the wood won't accept any more oil.

    Certainly, if you've gone this far, it's because you believed you were making progress and at some point you'll be satisfied that the blending of old and new colors are the best you can reasonably expect.  Apply whatever topcoat finish you want, or maybe you'll decide to simply leave an oil finish that can be renewed/refreshed at any time in the future with more oil and a buffer.

    Polished nailheads could be darkened with model builders type paint brush and some type antique replicating paint...maybe "grime" color by Floquil (manufactured by Testors, I think).

    A lot of work, for sure.  But you might as well shoot for a work of art.  You might never get this chance again.

    1. kevininmaine | Feb 05, 2014 01:19pm | #22

      Re: Rustic look

      Thanks Jim - your right, at the end of the day we want the room to look great.

      What do I want to end up with for the floor? A good looking, even toned and finished floor that we can clean easily.

      It is a nice looking floor but I have to admit I'm not a fan of the style or the color. I don't think it really goes with the archtecture of the house. All of the trim is mahogany and I fthink a lighter colored floor would bring that out more then the dark. That said, with (a fair amount of) labor and little cost, it can be servicable until we can afford to replace it.

      Here is a bigger picture of the room - we are in the process of replacing the knotty pine on the walls with sheetrock. Again, to help show the trim better.

      Thanks too for the Floquil suggestion - perfect.

      Kevin.

      View Image

  8. kevininmaine | Feb 06, 2014 09:20am | #23

    Replacing posts

    Ha! I had not thought of replacing the posts or rails with natural elements but it's  a great idea - I'll keep itin mind.

    Thanks for the ideas and help - I'll keep you updated.

    Kevin.

  9. DanH | Feb 06, 2014 06:55pm | #27

    Again, I'd suggest getting some sort of "finish remover" (a la Formby's) and working it over with, initially, a steel wool pad, to see if that takes enough of the finish off.  If the steel wool works you can probably switch to an oscilating sander with a "scrubber" pad or some such.  This would potentially lighten it considerably while still leaving the "patina".

    1. calvin | Feb 06, 2014 06:49pm | #24

      The beveled edge ............

      will be the killer.

      I saw one floor that had been refinished-sanded down and an attempt was made to "match" the stain. 

      Didn't look bad if you didn't mind the repetitive dark lines.

      I'm not saying this is going to be impossible-but would recommend "trying" out the possibilities in a closet if available.

      1. DanH | Feb 06, 2014 06:54pm | #26

        Well, definitely the beveled edge will remain fairly dark (though a simple detail scraper ("shave hook") may work wonders).  But that is a part of the "patina".

      2. kevininmaine | Feb 06, 2014 06:57pm | #28

        Re: The beveled edge ............

        Agreed. Especially the end grain bevels - they are really just black. Getting a stain to match will be a challenge for sure.

        Kevin.

    2. kevininmaine | Feb 06, 2014 06:54pm | #25

      Finish Remover.

      Your right, this is worth a try.

      Thanks

      Kevin.

  10. kevininmaine | Sep 14, 2015 03:59pm | #29

    (late) followup

    Hi Folks - Like most of my projects, the floor re-finishing did not get done until recently but I thought I'd follow up to say everything went great - thanks for all of the suggestions. We rented a large (11x17" sheet) random orbit sander from Home Depot and sanded the floors pretty much as is. I went through and set any nails that were too high but we never had any ripped paper at all. The pad on the bottom of the sander allowed this to work well.

    We did need to go over a bunch of the nails with a palm sander to even out the sanding but that was not too extensive. As for the nail heads, they got shiny with sanding and we just urethaned over them - they look great.

    Thanks again

    Kevin.

    1. calvin | Sep 14, 2015 07:22pm | #30

      Kevin

      Thanks for returning!

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