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Rehabbing an old church building

scottkendall | Posted in General Discussion on July 24, 2005 05:51am

I am not a builder but am instead an electronics hardware / software engineer working for a very small engineering company. Recently our company lost our lease because the owner decided to sell his building. New owner wants us out.

So, my boss and I formed an LLC and will lease the building that we bought to the company that we work for.

What we bought is a hundred year old Catholic Church. In about 1950 it was moved to its current location and then sometime in the next few years a basement was dug under it. Since about 1955 the building has been owned by the local Communication Workers Union. The building is basically a long narrow structure with a steeply pitched roof (steeple is missing but we’d like to replace it). The Union did really very little to the building in the 50 years that they owned it – a fact for which we are grateful as we’ve got a copy of the plans that show what they wanted to do to the building. We think that with careful repair and remodeling we can make this building into a very cool place to work. Certainly much more interesting than the tilt-up concrete shells that so many small companies use.

Today we removed the suspended ceiling in what was the Sanctuary. Above that, the original ceiling is covered with acoustic tile. When we removed the acoustic tile we found a fabric layer that is the building’s original ceiling. The fabric appears to have been coated with some sort of clay-like or plaster-like substance and it covers wood planking. So, all of this then leads to my question to y’all: What is that stuff? Is it worth saving? From what we’ve seen so far it appears to be in moderately good condition except for nail holes from furring strips that we installed to support the acoustic tiles. Or, are we better off covering it all up with sheetrock?

Blue Skies

scott

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Replies

  1. User avater
    AdamGreisz | Jul 24, 2005 09:54am | #1

    Better check for asbestos if you plan on removing any.

    Might be hard to match some sort of clay-like or plaster-like substance. If it is easy to match the texture patching would be an option.

    Easiest bet would be to cover all with sheetrock and call it good.

     

    Adam Greisz

    Owen Roberts Group

    10634 East Riverside Drive # 100

    Bothell, WA 98011

    http://www.owenrobertsgroup.com

    1. bruceboyes | Nov 29, 2005 07:48pm | #9

      Asbestos: we did get the two ceiling tiles and floor tile checked, at Dixon Labs here locally - I highly recommend them. The ceiling tiles were OK, and floor tiles have 10% of a long fiber version which is not dangerous if handled properly: take up the tiles in whole chunks with a pry bar (don't saw them) and don't pulverize them. In our case the floor tile is glued to a particle board sheet so we can just pry up the underlayment.

      Bruce

  2. IronHelix | Jul 24, 2005 02:54pm | #2

    This project sounds like it could get very interesting!

    Could you post some photos?

    I would like to see the building that will become your work place.

    Thanks................Iron Helix



    Edited 7/24/2005 7:55 am ET by Iron Helix

    1. bruceboyes | Nov 29, 2005 07:49pm | #10

      We'll be posting some photos soon. We are also doing historical research and it's uncovering some interesting (to us anyway) details, including an old photo which we are getting scanned.

      Bruce

      1. BryanSayer | Nov 29, 2005 08:05pm | #11

        Let me know how you get your old photos scanned. I have a couple from 1942 or so that I want to make larger so that I can see the porch detail better.

        1. bruceboyes | Nov 29, 2005 09:47pm | #12

          In this case the Historical Society is doing the scanning. But a pro photo print shop should be able to do it for you. Or if you have a friend with a Digital SLR of at least 6.3 mpixels such as a Nikon D70 or Canon 10D that would be a place to start. With a macro lens you can zoom in on a small portion of the print and then blow it up. Photoshop will then let you play with levels and possibly pull out detail from shadows, etc.

           

          Bruce

  3. dIrishInMe | Jul 24, 2005 03:25pm | #3

    >> When we removed the acoustic tile we found a fabric layer that is the building's original ceiling. <<  The acostic tile you removed possibly had asbestos in it...  Asbestos is a known carcinogen.  These type of building materials are not necessarily dangerious when left in place, painted, etc.  The danger occurs when it is being ripped out and dust containing the asbestos is stirred up into the air.
     
    There

    Matt
  4. JerBear | Jul 24, 2005 04:22pm | #4

    The canvas type material with the plaster on it is usually the groundwork for cieling murals. It's very possible that there was a mural on it at one time, and that got painted over. You might want to contact Evergreene Paint Studios in NYC and they can send out a conservator to explore the possibilities. I used to work for them. It may be nothing, but then again.... Does the church have any kind of signifigant history?
    This type of thing happened in Philly one time on a Frank Furness building (architect of note 150 years ago), where the construction crew demolished 4 different cielings before they came across this incredible very intact mural. That's when they called us in and I worked on that cieling for about 3 months just securing the plaster.

    These projects can be costly , but there are fundings for this type of thing if it pans out and it's great for the community and your business. Good luck.

  5. JerBear | Jul 24, 2005 04:28pm | #5

    Here is Evergreene's website. Check it out, it's interesting stuff. Some of the stuff you see there I worked on.

    http://www.evergreene.com/conservation.html

  6. Kowboy | Jul 24, 2005 07:36pm | #6

    Please, DO NOT sheetrock until you have done a minimum assessment of the historical value of the existing materials. Do a little research, it'll be fun.

  7. scottkendall | Jul 24, 2005 08:46pm | #7

    Adam Greisz and Matt both mentioned asbestos. The tiles we've removed appear to be made of a material similar to cardboard with similar coloring (a somewhat orange-ish color) and texture. We're thinking that this isn't likely to be asbestos which if memory serves me is a light gray-ish color. Still, the reminder is a good thing. Thanks.

    Iron Helix wants pictures and I'll try to post a few in the next day or two.

    Thus far in our removal of the suspended ceiling and acoustic tiles we haven't found any evidence of murals. Yesterday I crawled into part of the attic that neither of us had been into yet and discovered an arch in the wall that separates the current kitchen from the mane hall. Likely the Church's alter was in the area where the kitchen is now. My partner called me this morning and told me that he thinks that hidden in that same wall there might be a pair of columns that support the arch.

    We are very interested in preserving anything of historical importance and are not going to willy-nilly slap up sheetrock. We will be talking to the Pastor of the current Sacred Heart Parish to see if we can learn more about our building from their archives and communal memories.

    Blue Skies

    scott

    1. User avater
      AdamGreisz | Jul 25, 2005 02:56am | #8

      Keep us posted it sounds very interesting.

       Adam Greisz<!----><!---->

      Owen Roberts Group<!---->

      <!----><!----><!---->10634 East Riverside Drive # 100<!----><!----><!---->

      <!----><!---->Bothell<!---->, <!---->WA<!----> <!---->98011<!----><!---->

      http://www.owenrobertsgroup.com<!---->

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