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Reinforcing copper pipe posts for handrail?

SygilWLF | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 30, 2023 02:43am

Good day, I am new here, thank y’all for having me.  Anyway, to business: 
         I an building a short handrail on the exterior steps leading to my front door. There are  4 concrete steps that run between retaining walls leading up to my front walkway from my driveway. The treads on the stairs a deeper than standard. I am using 1 inch Type L copper pipe for my posts and some sapele wood for my actual handrail. The two posts are 33.25in tall with an extra 11in set down into concrete (I cored out 3in diameter of the existing concrete for each).  The rectangular rail is 1.75in X 85in. I’m setting rebar I coated in a nonconductive adhesive (to prevent electrolysis) in the center of the copper pipe and filling the remaining space inside with a Portland cement and sand mix.  My question is will the rebar and cement+sand (~2:1) mix add any structural integrity if someone were to need to steady themselves after losing their footing?

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  1. User avater
    unclemike42 | Oct 30, 2023 06:37am | #1

    The purpose of a handrail is to steady a person. It is always better to hold on the journey rather than try to catch the railing during a fall.

    If you are worried about the strength, I have read that the standard is 50 pounds per foot of railing length. and a point load of 200 pounds.

    You can perform a test with a suitable safety factor if you like.

    How the assembly holds up over the years will be another question.

  2. bing0328 | Oct 30, 2023 01:01pm | #2

    Not sure about structural issue but portland cement and copper do not like each other. In a couple of years no more copper pipe.

    1. SygilWLF | Oct 30, 2023 08:48pm | #3

      I did not know that. I appreciate the heads up. I’ll look into alternate materials.

      1. freyr_design | Oct 31, 2023 02:11am | #4

        I don't believe this is true

        https://copper.org/applications/plumbing/techcorner/problem_embedding_copper_concrete.php

        Also i dont think your rebar is necessary or will have much structural purpose, rebar is used to support against elongation, which your copper should be sufficient for in this scenario. I'm not an engineer though, and perhaps one will chime in.

        I would upsize your posts though, 1” is small, I would go 1.25” at least

        1. SygilWLF | Nov 01, 2023 12:47pm | #5

          Thank you for the info and the link to support it. I was a bit worried that 1” is too small as well but decided to set the posts anyway and chip them out if they are too weak. Now that the concrete has had some cure time, they are feeling pretty solid, but I’m gonna wait a few more days to let the cement inside the posts cure a bit more before seriously testing them. I’ll let y’all know how it goes.

  3. mgmahan | Nov 01, 2023 02:20pm | #6

    Forget about the strength of the copper. Build the posts using either galvanized pipe or rebar (#6 or 7) what ever fits best inside the copper. Then. slip the copper over the steel posts.

    1. SygilWLF | Nov 06, 2023 06:58pm | #14

      That’s a good idea, I’ll give that a shot on my next copper project.

  4. User avater
    shelternerd | Nov 01, 2023 07:07pm | #7

    Here's a way I've done standing pipe railings before using 2" diameter copper plumbing fittings and steel electrical conduit (first two attachments) and, in my own home, using copper fittings & pipe. The key to the attachment to the wall is to crennalte the short piece of pipe (like a castle tower) with fingers cut into the top and every other finger removed w/ the rest being bent in and drilled to receive the screws running through the drywall (or whatever the interior wall sheathing is) and into the blocking behind. I like to use 3/16 x 1/2" black allen screws from below to fix the pipe in the fittings.
    Not all electrical conduit is the right size to fit inside a copper plumbing fitting, buy the fittings first and bring one to the supply house to confirm fit before you buy the conduit.

    1. SygilWLF | Nov 05, 2023 02:08pm | #8

      Thank you for the detailed info, your railings in the pics look great btw.

  5. SygilWLF | Nov 05, 2023 02:18pm | #9

    Hey everyone, thank you for your input and for all the great info. I have finished the installing the handrail and tested the strength. I’m happy to report it held ~200lbs with no issues. I’ve included some pictures. What y’all think?

    1. User avater
      unclemike42 | Nov 06, 2023 06:07am | #10

      Looks nice.

      I might have rounded the edges a bit, but it is your project.

      Will be interesting to watch as it ages.

      1. SygilWLF | Nov 06, 2023 06:55pm | #13

        Thank you. I’m in process of hammering out and forming some copper end caps for the wood. I did round off the long edges of the wood enough to take away any sharp feeling on the hands, but I like the rectangular shape.

    2. freyr_design | Nov 06, 2023 02:12pm | #11

      Looks great, did you end up placing rebar inside?

      1. SygilWLF | Nov 06, 2023 02:49pm | #12

        I did. It is not touching the copper so I figured it probably wouldn’t hurt.

        Edit: also the rebar is what is holding the wood on. I drilled the holes for the rebar to slip into so that they narrow just a little bit as they go deeper into the wood. I also rounded the top edge of the rebar a little. So far they are holding on really well throughout the day’s temperature and humidity changes. but I may have to put a small pin through the side of the wood and rebar as time passes.

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