I’d like to first take this opportunity to say thank you for visiting and posting on Breaktime and also our new Project Gallery. The success of these online communities depends on your questions and answers, your photos, and your interaction with us at Fine Homebuilding and with each other.
Unfortunately, it’s my last point that brings me to write this note, as some posters recently crossed the bounds of good taste and decency and violated Taunton’s terms of service (read: the fine print which in a nutshell asks everyone to play nicely with each other). The last thing I wanted to do in a community forum was perform disciplinary tasks, but such was the case, and as a result I banned several members from Breaktime.
Sadly, after I took this action, at least one poster took unacceptably bad behavior to the extreme. Using my good name as part of his screen name, this poster posted a photograph in the forum that was without a doubt inappropriate and offensive. As a matter of fact, when the photo was brought to the attention of our legal department, they were concerned that the photo might have crossed the line into criminality so discussed the matter with the appropriate branch of law enforcement.
Let me reiterate in the strongest possible terms that such behavior will not be tolerated in our forums or anywhere else on FineHomebuilding.com. We will continue to monitor the site and remind posters when necessary of the rules. We will also exercise our right to remove any material and block any poster that we believe has crossed the line of acceptable behavior. Further, if illegal activity of any kind is suspected, our legal department may again decide to bring the matter to the attention of legal authorities, including the appropriate branch of law enforcement and/or Taunton’s attorneys.
The vast majority of our forums are made up of a group of enthusiastic and talented individuals, and I don’t mean for this to sound like I’m lecturing you, but I felt it necessary to a) inform you that Taunton is taking action to keep your community safe and enjoyable, and b) give fair warning to anyone contemplating unacceptable and/or illegal behavior.
In the coming weeks you will see a reorganization of Breaktime’s folders. Mostly notably, the invitation-only “Woodshed Tavern,†a place for non-homebuilding discussion, will no longer be invitation only. It will be open to all Breaktime visitors with the caveat that within is discussion that can at times be heated and opinionated.
And, to further the lines of communication between the Breaktime community and myself, look for a new feedback folder that I will check daily. Think of this as your direct line to FineHomebuilding.com and any questions or comments are welcomed.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program…
Jean Paul Vellotti
Managing Editor
Fine Homebuilding.com
Replies
Nice of you to post that in the open.
A suggestion about wrist-slaps: would it work if you posted in the specific thread something like "Joe, that comment was out of line, this is your first warning" so that everyone would know what was happening.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I wonder if opening up the tavern is a good idea. It was made separate from the regular part of BT for good reason - To keep newbies from stumbling in there when they first logged in.
Seems to me that was a good idea.
>>wonder if opening up the tavern is a good idea. It was made separate from the regular part of BT for good reason - To keep newbies from stumbling in there when they first logged in.
Seems to me that was a good idea.
In my opinion, opening the tavern to everyone is a terrible idea. It was not made separate to keep newbies out, it was made separate because a lot of us regular users have no desire to see tavern topics at the top of our list every time we log on.
FHB WEB, you need to seriously reconsider changing the tavern protocol. There were quite a few of us who wanted it made separate, and no doubt that sentiment is still strong.
"It was not made separate to keep newbies out, it was made separate because a lot of us regular users have no desire to see tavern topics at the top of our list every time we log on."
That's not the way I remember it. Newbies were coming into BT and landing in political threads. By making it "by request only" that no longer happens.
Adversity is the trial of principle. Without it, a man hardly knows whether he is honest or not. [Henry Fielding]
Don't argue now boys, BOTH reasons were put forward when it was being discussed
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Hmmmm.
Apease the masses.
Now I understand why the politics are in the political folder.
As a relatively new member and mostly non-political
lurker-
I have followed a good deal of the heated discussions that lead to
the bannings. The part I simply cannot understand is the official complaints to Taunton. Come on, we are all adults and freely choosing to have these
conversations. My personal feeling is, the people that got so hurt and upset because of a comment on an internet forum seriously need to take a step back. Don't engage in political conversations, or put the individual
in question on ignore.
Short of personal physical danger there simply isn't any need to
endanger the community or burden the host.
We all get upset and hot headed but that kind of behavior is
beneath all of us.
Context, context, context.
That is why CU has a point about the other forums he visits and the way they are moderated. (active participants). I agree with him.
In general there needs to to be some understanding of intent and harm - or lack of.
If mods are not going to be active in the real time process, then they are going to have to put more energy into understanding the issues that arise.
If not, the lurker- complainers are in control.
That doesn't foretell a healthy situation.
You raise very good points, but there is always a limit to how much abuse anyone can (or should have to) tolerate. We don't come here to be abused by people who can't agree to disagree; we come here to discuss things, and maybe learn something from our differences.
Over the years, I've been tempted once or twice to send in a heads-up to the mods about a particularly nasty post aimed at me (or someone else), but I haven't had to. So far I've found that just ignoring the ignoramus and waiting a few days works just as well. 99.5% of the time, the offender gets tired of flaming thin air fairly quickly and quits.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Mhole and Dinosaur,
This is the first and only forum I've been an active
participant in. So I probably just don't have the experience to
judge how hurt someone can be by a malicious comment.
Because quite honestly the notion of "telling" on someone
is ridiculous to me.
Turn the darn thing off and help your wife wash the dishes
if it's that bad (I know it would have to be bad for that
to happen!). Seriously, if you value the community you have, work your way
through the problems. If it is causing you personnel harm
move on.
I think most people here appreciate getting a little feedback as to some of what happened. For a while, it seemed like the Soviet Union, where people were 'disappeared', and never an explanation or acknowledgement.
I recall the open Tavern days, and it could get a bit strident, but generally was a good place to hang out. Hope that it will be so again.
David,It was made private in stages. When there were no folders at all, the heated threads were always at the top of the list, so they were the first and sometimes the only things visible without scrolling down. So folders were created. That helped segregate the off-topic stuff and generally organized the postings better. But if I recall correctly, the Tavern folder was always still at the top because it was the most active. So it was then pinned to the bottom so you had to scroll down to get to it. Much later it was made invitation only. I think pinned to the bottom and open could work if it's heavily policed to keep folks in line. It was OK that way for quite a while in the past.Steve
The point about the tavern posts always being the first anyone sees when they come to breaktime, newby or no.. Is a good one.I don't think it's possible to keep the tavern at the bottom of the page, or to keep tavern posts off of the main page... Without keeping the tavern private.As for wrist slaps... Every time I have seen that done here, (or done it myself), there follows a blizzard of posts and emails about how "unfair" the wrist slap was, it wasn't that bad, was that a threat, how dare ~you~ edit ~my~ post, pick at this nit, choke on that gnat....Everybody and their cousin's plumber, feel they have to say something about how they agree with, don't agree with, think it's fair/unfair, etc...Instead of being a simple reminder/explanation, it becomes a three ring circus. And a quarterback crush, with everyone piling on the mod who did the wrist slap.
Click here to get to:
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Is it really that hard to keep a discussion civil. I disagree with a lot of people, a lot of the time. It doesn't mean I have to insult or otherwise demean them in order to discuss the difference of opinion.
One of the other forums I frequent banned political discussion altogether. It hasn't seemed to hurt the overall forum.
If you wouldn't say it to your grandparents, you should probably not post it here.
Tom
If you wouldn't say it to your grandparents, you should probably not post it here.
Excellent point and a good rule to live by in the world and on the internet.
Alot of trouble would have been saved in the last two months if we lived by that rule.
Rich
Yes, but at least the general population knows that Jim-Bob was called on the carpet, and for which posting. It's a better system that private rebukes or private banishments, which lead to lots of (usually incorrect) speculation. But you do raise some good points."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
So who's the criminal?
You're asking the wrong person. And i suspect we will never find out unless someone confesses, and based on what JP said that it unlikely."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
I haven't seen Splintergroper back in any form lately...
My complaint is that there was no wrist slap, just banishment, with no explanation as to what the transgression was. How can you correct someone's apparently bad behavior if you don't say what was bad about it?
Understandable, and understood.They had good reason for doing what they did. And they can't go back and undo it, anyway.It does look like they are going to start the better policy of just giving the warning in the post. (My understanding from what JP has posted here and at quittintime, is that they will be giving a warning right there, when a warning is due. The person will get either a warning, or the boot. No timeouts.)When they do, I am wondering what is going to keep it from becoming a circus every time a warning is given.
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I have a cousin in here?
Who got banned????
For good new rock music, click on:
http://www.myspace.com/rosehilldrive or
http://www.myspace.com/yearlongdisaster or
http://www.myspace/com/thesuedebrothers
Fast Eddie has a good point. I see that on other forums, but have never seen it here.
I can't imagine how much more work my wife would have if she took her 1st-graders aside and individually reprimanded them on the DL instead of using it as an opportunity to remind the other 24 kids in her classroom of her expectations. And JP, you've got way more 1st-graders than that in here , myself sometimes included.
Thanks for the statement of policy. It would help me to have a more specific set of rules about what is acceptable. In fact it might be useful to have an open exchange/debate on that topic.
As a long time participant in the construction industry, my perception of acceptable language in an adult forum may be a bit different from the FHB editors.
Edited 12/8/2008 11:48 am by Hudson Valley Carpenter
Thank you
"Ask not what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive... then go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive."
Howard Thurman
Thank you for speaking out. I hope that a similar statement about behavior, in bold print, makes it onto the initial page. I understand that this software does not allow "stickies", so you cannot keep it at the top of the list.
Thanks, Jean Paul.
I think the feedback folder is a great idea. It seems to me that one of the biggest problems with all the recent to-do is the lack of communication on what was OK and what wasn't. A folder to keep those communication lines open, IMO, will go a long ways towards keeping eveyone happy.
Well, considering this crew, maybe not happy. But certainly less testy. <G>
I spend more time with the mag than here, but keep up the good work with both!
Have a good day
CLiffy
Thank you for that!
I like a lively debate and really don't want to stop off to the tavern if it's all ferns and tea.. I'm not offended by much of the previous bad behavior that was so severely punished but let me add my support for public admonishment rather than simple banning..
That helps everybody really understand the guild lines.
Thank you. I heard an interesting discussion on NPR about the recent conviction of the woman accused of cyber bullying and the sad result of a young girl committing suicide. The discussion centered around how many people really read the TOS each site posts. According to one expert, not many. I think it behooves everyone to read those TOS.
Thanks for the reminder on the policies.
BTW - since folders are being rearranged, can we please have a plumbing folder and an electrical folder?
Thanks for your consideration.
I promise to be on good behavior...well, like I rue-sually am.
(Just wish you could fix my screen name and email thingy's. That's okay, I know "they" have been keeping you pretty busy...)
Well, the sun rose... in so many colours it nearly broke my heart... Worked me over like a work of art...and I'm all part of that...
Just who are you, anyway? ;-)
be happy birthday, whoever you are
Hun, it's me, darcy.
Sheesh!
When are you gonna draw us a new picture?
Thanks, btw....
Well, the sun rose... in so many colours it nearly broke my heart... Worked me over like a work of art...and I'm all part of that...
Thanks JP. Regrettable that it came to this point.
ciao, ted
Jean Paul:
"And, to further the lines of communication between the Breaktime community and myself, look for a new feedback folder that I will check daily."
I took the time to respond in your "new gallery" thread regarding the antiquated breaktime format and, to date, that post has been unread by yourself.
http://forums.taunton.com/tp-breaktime/messages?msg=113243.126&redirCnt=1
It references a post above mine so scroll further up to get the context.
If you really want to "further the lines of communication" (your words), it is vital to at least read constructive comments. Otherwise "further the lines of communication" comes across as just a bunch of talk with no basis. I receive emails when a response is made to a post made by me. I would think any moderator worth his salt would do the same so I can only assume you elected not to read it.
I wrote the post in th spirit of trying to help you and Taunton get to 2008. It seems the least you could do is read it.
I love FHB and Breaktime, both great reads. Have no problem in making another folder for non construction stuff. One of my running boards has "Letters and Opinions" and "Rants and Raves" folders, both of which have nothing to do with running and they seem to work so why not here.
But you have to at least read the posts addressed to you if you want to keep getting constructive feedback.
Runnerguy
Edited 12/8/2008 7:50 pm ET by runnerguy
Edited 12/8/2008 7:52 pm ET by runnerguy
LOL, THIS post is almost a week old and remains unread. Maybe he came down with the flu or is on vacation
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Maybe took the #### day off?Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
Thanks JP...
I think one of the reasons things were taken to a negative level besides some bad taste in some of the posts was because there were quite a few people here that were playing games and were intentionally trying to get people they disagreed with banned.
A moderator "has to read" the offending posts to determine if the said offender is truly being excessive or whether or not it seems to be a gang war going on here.
I know for a fact that was happening here. I for one have never reported anyone. I find it easy enough to skip offending posts.
As for needing permission to go into the Tavern I have to agree with you. I see no reason for that. I see no reason any one needs to post material that's anything close to X rated. Heated discussions are one thing, but being outright mean is another. If you don't know you're crossing the line then it is possible at some point you need to be called on it....and I agree...it should be done out in the open for all of us to see.....after all it is our forum to use. I see that as being the most fair way to treat a person....as well as the most effective because no one here that I know of wants the Tavern shut down.
I think it's at least worth a try. Not everyone sees eye to eye and I'd think a short warning/discussion between the moderator, the offender and us onlookers can result in a great place for us to keep our belts hung.
Be well
andy
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
"I know for a fact that was happening here."Andy, This is the second time I have read the comment that there were factions actively trying to get others banned. I think Mike S said it too.But I can't imagine how anyone could have any factual knowledge of that. I probably have spent more time here than anyone and I never saw evidence of it in the forum, so you would have had to had some emails admitting it by somebody, or you have to have done some assuming.I am NOT saying it didn't happen. It is a pretty easy assumption to make if you see conspiracies all around... maybe I'm too naive...But I just can't see how you could KNOW that it was the case. Could you say HOW you know? PM me if that is the better part of discretion...
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Buck came right out with it at QT, said he complained or reported TGNY, I read it too.Spheramid Enterprises Architectural Woodworks
Repairs, Remodeling, Restorations
They kill Prophets, for Profits.
I read that, but there was nothing at all about anyone TRYING to get other people booted as a group. I've made two complaints my self in the last ten years here for dispicable behaviour. I was working to clean up behaviour, not get any one booted.Big difference.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
for dispicable behaviour
"That's des-picable!" ...Daffy Duck
""That's des-picable!" ...Daffy Duck"You misspelled that. It's "defff-thpikable" :)BruceT
ROTFLMAOTwicet
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Now you went and got spit all over my screen! And it's on your side so I can't wipe it off (can I say "spit" and not get in trouble?). What a revoltin' develpment! Back off. That's a joke, son.
Is it alright if I say that I sometimes wonder if the monitor of this board is the offspring of DD?
I was on another forum this afternoon where a person posted an article from a newspaper. Four of the words where not allowed to be displayed on the forum, but were OK for the newspaper.Ozlander
I made a joke about disguising back issues of FHB as p_rn so as to not upset my wife, and found out the word p_rn was replaced by ####.
now, i don't think anyone should post p_rn- (the stuff, not the word), or anything obscene, but censoring the word itself is asinine.
k
PM is on the way
http://www.cliffordrenovations.com
http://www.ramdass.org
Ok.
The main thing is to keep the lines of communication open like you're doing here. It wasn't done before. People were dropping like flies and they had no idea why and the mods said nothing. It's your call on what goes down, but people aren't going to act accordingly if they don't know.
Without the subscribers a magazine is nothing.
Any idea why I no longer receive e-mail notifications? I've inquired three times so far over the past couple of weeks, but have not heard anything back. I do have the box checkmarked to receive them, and I don't have any spam filters turned on for my e-mail.
Thank you in advance for your help.
"Preach the Gospel at all times; if necessary, use words." - St. Francis of Assisi
Maybe nobody loves you?
There is no mail to Cleveland?
Joe H
I also stopped getting email notifications of replies to my postings. Been that way for months.
Bump, for the benefit of those who have not seen this thread.
The guys are right - there's something to be said for public stocks in the town square. Maybe even a public flogging or two to get the point across.
I didn't know till last week that the word "####" is naughty. So how are we to know what the blue pencil guys think are bad actions if the guilty parties just disappear into the FHB equivalent of the basement of Lyubyanka Prison & never appear again?
Don
The Glass Masterworks
"If it scratches, I etch it!"