I made the mistake of installing some window stop bead with a brad nailer. Those nails don’t remove easily. So now I’m doing it the old fashioned way, with a hammer. But all that banging isn’t good either. Dust falls down, plaster cracks, etc. I know I should drill deeper pilot holes. And the top piece is particularly hard to nail.
But anyway, are there any of the finish or brad nails designed to be removed? Would a pinner work for stop bead? Any other slick ideas?
Getting the details right for a wall assembly with the control layers to the exterior and lots of drying potential.
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Replies
I'm sort of puzzled by the concern over removability. Generally, the beads (stop and parting) only have to come out when the sashes do, not a frequent operation. In any event, I can't see why a brad nailer would pose that great a problem. But if this is a concern, why don't you use trim screws? (I'm assuming painted trim here) Use your combo square to mark a line down the center, and lay out marks so they're consistently spaced. I've always used trim screws to assemble all the visible components of pocket doors for the time when repair or adjusment was necessary.
There are oval shaped grommets/washers that are used with screws. The idea is that you cinch the stop up tight to the window in the winter when you won't be opening them, and loosen it in the summer. I've never had them myself, as it seems the type of thing that is common in areas way too far north of the Mason/Dixon line for me.But anyway, this isn't paint grade, at least not after all the stripping we have done.
Bryan Sayer,
I can adjust my nailer to set the brad above, at, or below the surface. I have a nail cutter I use to grab larger nails and pull them out and I have a tiny needle nose pair of dykes to remove tiny brads.
Brian,
Normally, for installing stop bead a headless pinner would be ideal; however I don't have one (it's really a fairly specialised tool) and I just use ¾" finishers in my 16ga PC trim nailer.
You are quite correct; they are very difficult to remove. This is because of the heat-sensitive glue used to bind the sticks of nails together: the friction of driving them activates the glue again, and within 10 seconds, it sets up hard and binds the nails to the substrate.
In 90% of the cases, the head will pull through the stock when you pry it off. But this should not be a major problem, since you're going to have to fill the nail-holes anyway, and pull-through doesn't enlarge it on the visible surface (only underneath). And even hand-nailed trim sometimes leaves the finishers in the case, especially after they've been there for a while.
Once the trim is pried off carefully, you can pull the nails out of the case with a pair of dykes or nippers.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
Oh the stop bead comes off ok, it's getting the nails out afterwards. But I'll try that drive them in thing.Stop bead shouldn't come off often, but somehow or another it does. Broken rope, re-glaze, new zinc, geez the list just goes on and on and on...
Re-driving air-nail finishers with a hammer is a bit chancy once the trim has been pried off; they're so skinny that they usually knee-bend in the middle instead of breaking the glue bond unless very little shank is exposed.
I just use a pair of ordinary 5" dykes: grab the nail deep in the crotch of the jaws, don't bite too hard on it or you'll cut it, then just lever it out using the point of the jaws as the fulcrum. Works 99% of the time. Slip the flat of a Wonderbar or putty knife under the jaws if protecting the wood from dent marks is an issue.
The other 1% of the time, the nail breaks off where I grabbed it, an eighth of an inch above the wood, so I just hammer what's left flat into the case and fuggedabowdit.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Are dykes what we call Vice Grips? I mean, I've got a number of the other type of dykes in my neighborhood, but I doubt I can get them to come over and pull nails...I think I tried slip joint pliers once, and then seemed prone to breaking the nails.
Brayan Sayer
Dykes are what we call diagonal pliers. Used for electrical work they seem to work wonders when pulling nails. They bite into the shank of the nail get a good grip and easily pull the whole thing out.
Diagonal CUTTERS, right?
Dykes (diagonal cutting pliers) look like this:
View Image
Klein¯
Nippers are also called end-cutters or flush-cutters. They look like this:
Channel-lock¯ View Image or View Image Klein¯
Lee Valley sells a specialised version with an oversized head specifically designed for nail pulling.
View Image
Lee ValleyDinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I've actually been using diagnol cutters to pull some nails. Never heard of them being called dykes before though. And the puller from Lee Valley is on my list of things to order. It looks sharp.Haven't tried the pinner yet. Might give it a try this weekend if I can borrow one.A somewhat related question, what type of joint do you use where the side stops meet the top stop? I've been trying to cope, but it doesn't work that good as it seems too fragile.
what type of joint do you use where the side stops meet the top stop? I've been trying to cope, but it doesn't work that good as it seems too fragile.
If the stop profile is a simple 15º bevel or something similar, I cope it on the CMS because it's quite easy to do and saves trouble for anyone who might have to remove the stops in the future. OTOH, if it's an ogee or beaded profile or something more complex, I just mitre it because as you say, the stock is very small and fragile. If you feel you just have to cope, use a Dremel¯ with appropriate radius sanding drums instead of a coping saw.
Removing mitred stop from inside a case means bowing one of the longer pieces enough to lift it off the nails (they will pull through, as we've been discussing) so you can slide it out from under the mating piece. So if you mitre the joints--especially where there is stop on all four sides of the case--make it easy on the poor schlub who'll get stuck doing that down the road, and don't nail too close to the corner.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
This is just rounded on the edge that you see when you look at the window. In fact, it looks just like our base shoe, only a bit smaller. I've been putting the top piece in tight, and then trying to cope the top ends of the side legs. Then cutting the side legs to length. And, like you said, not putting the bottom or top nail in to close to the corner.I'm going try the 15 degree bevel and see how that looks. We tried a 45 cut, and didn't like that.
The 15º cut will only work as a cope if the profile of the stop is a flat 15º beveled face. Forget about it for your nosed stop bead.
To cope that stuff properly, cut it at 45º as if you were going to mitre the joint, then use a Dremel¯ or a coping saw to backcut the stock following the edge of the profile. It's easier to do than to explain.
I'd just mitre the corners; I don't think I've ever seen a coped joint on window stop except for the flat bevel type.Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
Oh, and my impression has been that headless pinners are basically for holding stuff together until glue dries. But maybe I'll see if I can borrow one and give it a try.Just got to decide if I'm removing what I just put up to get the color to match on the new wood.
any time i have to pull any gun nails, i drive the nail slightly in with a hammer to break the glue bond, then it pulls easier.