I had an old builtin straircase replaced by a carpenter with new builtin staircase. The stringers appear to but cut properly but the treads and risers have large gaps on the sides next to the skirt board, as much as 1/4 inch. The wood is solid oak. He used construction adhesive and nailed the treads and screwed the risers into the treads. I want to replace the treads and risers and cut the new ones properly using a gauge to get the correct distance between the skirt boards. I’m going to do the work myself. How can I remove the treads and risers without damaging the stringer? I think the adhesive is really going to be a problem.
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Are the skirting boards still in place or are they to be replaced now that the stairs are installed? 1/4" gap will easily be covered by trim like baseboards. If the basedboard/skirting board is already there and you still have athis 1/4" gap, then that is poorworkmanship and you'd be within your rights to back bill the guy. In the meantime it should be possible to add a shoe moulding to the baseboard. This is a small trim element that fastens to the floor tight against the baseboard - but not fastened to the baseboard. This allows the shoe to float with the floor and should prevent any visible gap between the trim and the floor. In your case the shoe moulding could be used to cover the gap between the tread and the baseboard.
The skirt boards are still in place. They were screwed to the stringers before the stringers were attached to the second floor. The wall is plaster so I knew the skirt boards would have to be capped. In my opinion a wood strip should have be screwed to the stringer and then the skirt board placed on top, floating, and then nailed to the wall. Then the treads and risers should have been measured and cut individually. He cut them all the same size so there are gaps between the treads and skirt board. I plan to remove the treads and do it over. I don't want to put moulding on each step to cover the gap. I just think removing the treads will be really difficult because of the construction adhesive. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Staircases that are not "housed" will fall victim to the shrinking of the walls, especially in new construction. I've built many stairs and fit the risers and treads tightly to the skirts, only to have them open up a few months later. A recent timberframe moved 3/8" in places and 0" in others.
Too many carpenters, today, are making future repairs impossible or at least difficult with all the glues used inappropriately. Too many customers, expect absolute perfection, like you get with plastic. Poor workmanship is the carpenters fault, shrinkage isn't.
Start with the top tread. Once it is removed you can get to the screws that go into the riser from behind. Sometimes the bond between the end grain of the triangles, and the face grain of the treads, isn't very strong. Driving an old chisel carefully between them may pop them loose. You may damage the stringer triangles trying to break the glue, can't help it. There are many ways to repair them, including that danged glue. The strength of the stringer is in it's backbone, coupled with the unitized treads and risers, you shouldn't hurt that unless you beat them to death.
Installing "closed" risers and treads for a perfect fit is challenging. If they are just a little tight, the next tread will open up the preceding one. This a case, when being able to tap the pieces together with your hat, is what you are looking for. The problem is that any shrinkage will show quickly. This is a job that would be done best by waiting until a new house has dried out and the materials are at the lowest possible moisture content.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
This is an oldh ouse about 90 years old. The reason I need a needed a new staircase is because I built an addition and the old stairs had a landing with a return but the new stairs needed to go straight up. So the addition was actually built 10 years ago and I am just getting to the stairs now. The reason for the delay is that I've done most of the work myself. I worked my way through college and grad school (for a mason contractor and I hae renovated a couple of houses myself. The reason I had someone do the stair is because my wife won. Don't ask. Anyway I know wood moves and I would have prefered stairs with enclosed stringers but I couldn't install a prebuilt case because it would destroy a lot of nice chestnut woodwork. I could live with the gaps if they were even but it really looks like crap. The guy cut all parts to the same size even though it going inbetween plaster walls. I just thought the best thing to do would be to replace the treads with ones cut using a gauge. It's just that getting the newly glued treads off is really going to be a pain. There are 15 steps.
Sounds like you have high cielings too - about 9'4"You are going about this rightly, unfortunately it sounds like the guy who already screwed them up is a framing carpenter instead of a casework/trim man. As mentioned, start by taking apart the top one and working down to get them off. To cut the new ones to fit, there are some stair pattern gigs advertised in the rear pages of FHB, welll worth having, even for one-off.
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Thanks for the input. I'll be starting this weekend. I just saw the stair gauge in FHB. It's $85. I think it's worth it. The one thing I don't have is a sliding mitersaw to cut the treads. They are 11.5 inches wide so I think I need a 12 inch saw. I guess I can rent one and buy a new blade. What do you think?
I cut treads with a hundred dollar circ saw. Would even do it with a ten point handsaw. how long can thirty cuts take?
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OK- 58 cuts with risers
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So one final question. How do you mark the tread for cutting, so when you cut with the circular saw the good side is down? I don't think you can flip the gauge over to mark the underside of the tread. That's why I wanted to use a sliding miter saw since the blade cuts downward. Otherwise if I cut using a circular saw with the good side up I'll get chip-out.
hoffman....
we use a marathon blade....
it's a general purpose blade... we don't get any chip out
here's a stairgage i made.. at least as good as the $85 one
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Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Edited 7/13/2005 10:00 pm ET by Mike Smith
For this and any marking finer trim cuts, instead of using a pencil, I use a sharp knife. Make the top slice with the knife, then buff your hand across it a couple times. Surfae dust will catch in the scratch and make it stand out at least as visible as the pencil would have been. the scratch prevents chipout, as long as you are carefull enough with the saw not to run onto the wrong side of the line
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So your wife had to hire a handyman, hey Hoffmanhw? Ha Ha! My wife would like to do the same. Too bad he wasn't very good, he could have taken some pressure off you. I had to take out some glued treads recently and the glue really didn't hold that well. If you have trouble getting the parts loose, you can always saw them close to the stringers and nibble the remaining pieces with a chisel. This is also a good way to split around a fastener you couldn't remove. You probably don't want to mark the skirtboards. Taking a gentle, piece by piece, approach to dismantling can help with the damage control. I use a 1x10 piece of pine as a pattern since I don't own one of those fancy stair gizmos. I scribe the fit to the skirt, set the sliding compound saw to cut as close as possible and make a test cut on the pattern. You can get the length with a couple of by-passing sticks. You obviously know, that cutting everything the same doesn't work too well, in your type of situation. I know you will make that handyman look like an amateur, you'll never hear the end of it if you don't.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
Thanks to everyone who responded. Great information from all of you. Sunday I will remove the treads and risers. Hopefully the glue won't give me too much trouble. I'll put them back with one or two screws in each and then next weekend I'll put down the new treads and risers. Based on the info you gave me I will make my own stair gauge and cut the treads with a circular saw. Thanks again!