The house I just purchased has a 2 car detached garage (20′ x 25′) with a flat roof pitching slightly to the rear for run off. I over hangs the walls about 1 foot on each side. The ceiling joists are made from 2×6 spaced 16″ apart and run from front to back (20′ in length) and have plywood on top with roofing material on top of that. There is a center beam running from the midway point of the side walls all the way across the width of the garage (25′) and is made from 3 2×12″ bolted together. There is a metal pole in the center of the garage holding the beam up and I was wondering if the pole is actually necessary? What would I have to do to remove it if I had to beef up the beam more?
Thanks,
Bob W.
Atlantic City, NJ
Replies
You're gonna hear this fifty times.
Get an engineer to look at it.
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2nd on the engineer - we just set a clear span beam today for a similar garage - the beam was 4 - 24" LVLs. You cannot imagine how strange a 24" tall beam looks in a residential garage.
Yours would be that (w/some loss of headroom) or similar, or something in steel. A structural engineer would give you a quick answer.
There is a metal pole in the center of the garage holding the beam up and I was wondering if the pole is actually necessary?
I don't think the builders would have gone to the expense if they didn't have to, so it is almost certainly necessary.
What would I have to do to remove it if I had to beef up the beam more?
Put in a stronger beam. ;) It's gonna depend on th weight of the roof, snow load at your location, etc. As other have said you'll need an engineer. This isn't that difficult a design task, so (s)he should be able to do if pretty quickly.
I this case you could probably take 3-4 pictures and a diagram to the engineers office and get it done in half an hour, no site visit necessary. Pay the $100 and sleep better.
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Wanna remove the beam? No prob.
1) Order standard gable roof trusses from a truss manufacturer.
2) Tear off the entire roof and ceiling, remove the beam leaving only the walls.
3) Install the trusses, sheath new roof, and install shingles.
4) have a nice day.
The fairly flat roof is gonna fail anyway, so why not get rid of it and put a more permenate roof in it's place. Hate to say it, but as is, it's gotta be b$&& ugly anyway...
Thanks for all the replies, I am indeed going to seek an engineers thoughts before I do anything but I wanted to see if anyone else has had a similar situation and what they did.
The pole looks added later but there is no signs of sag. The roof is also new (2 yrs).
As for it being ugly I wouldn't say that. It has sofits all the way around that are 10inches in width to hide the joists and it overhangs every side by about a foot. It looks pretty good in my opinion.
Bob W.
go ahead, remove the pole, cutting torch works good, stand back and see what happen. make sure your new truck in the garage, looks like rain
If you remove the pole without being ready to replace the beam in steel under an engineers specs, here is what will happen.The roof will immediately begin to sag. Soon it will have sagged enough that water pools in the center instead of draining off. Once the pool is deep enough, the water trapped there will find a way to leak. The leaks will rot the structure weakening it until it colllapses.If it takes too long for the rot to cause this, the weight of the water might hurry things along
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Bob - I'm wondering why you think the pole looks new - are the 2x12s in the beam continuous the entire span or do the break above the post?
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Yes the beam runs from one side to the other. I am guessing that its newer than the beam and roof because of the way it looks now. I could be wrong.
I have no intentions of just taking the pole out without doing something to compensate, I don't know where I led anyone to believe I was.
I am getting an engineers opinion on this and then upgrading the existing beam either by placing steel between the 2x12's or using an I-beam and taking out the existing one all together.
Thanks for the replies though,
Bob W.
Yes the beam runs from one side to the other. I am guessing that its newer than the beam and roof because of the way it looks now.
That, right there bugs me a tad.
Lets us suppose some things. Let's suppose that the roof needed support, so the beam went in. Let's say the beam was good, but failed to take its own weight into consideration, so, it drooped a bit (less than depth/3 is still ok, if unsightly). That guy sells house. RE or HI says, oh that sagging beam looks bad, let's put a post under it. Hey presto-chango, a lally goes in.
What's under the lally? Is it just bolted to the 4" garage slab? Are there signs of a cut slab possibly suggesting a proper footing?
These are all questions an engineer on the spot could better answer--but, at least my primary worry is off my chest.Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
The concrete slab looks like it was dug out around the pole and new concrete poured. I would say its 18" x 18" area. Also I spoke with an engineer today (freind on the family) and he said right of the bat that a 6" x 12" beam (3 2x12's) is only capable of carrying a 12' span of non load bearing weight. He said the pole is correct at being in the half way point and to leave it be.
I trust his judgement and plan on getting him to come out and give me the specs on an engineered beam to replace it. I probably will go with a steel I-beam if I can because looks aren't a problem. It will be covered with wood when finished off.
Bob W.
It will be covered with wood when finished off.Its agarage. it was design to be dirty, sawdust on floot ,spiderwebs, pegboard. nail holding everything up, greasey slab. garage are design to be nasty.
Like most of the other folks, I seriously doubt they would have put the pole in unless it was necessary. Your beam could probably be replaced with a fairly shallow steel beam that would clear span the garage and eliminate the need for a post. Or you could beef up the size of the joists. But I'm certain from your description that simply taking out the post isn't an option.
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you better believe that's there for a reason...
and when you add the weight of the ceiling sheathing yur adding you'll be really grateful it's there..
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Change the beam after you get an engineer to look at it.
This reminds me of a new frame I walked thru the other day.... Three car attached garage 22'x 35'. It had one 3 1/2"x12" LVL 35' long going across the center of the garage and 2x6 ceiling joists hanging off of this. There was a temp. post in the center of the beam, which was also the center of the center bay.The roof was 2x6 rafters on a 6/12 pitch all braced off of the beam. Anybody wonder what will happen when they pull the temp. prop out ? Right now it is 2-2x6 tee'd together, and the weight is causing it to bow. My guess is someday all three cars in the garage will be flattened.It's a nice looking house, but I'm sure it's not engineered or engineered by the lowest bidding framer. Good luck with your project.John
I got a 24 X 30 with no poles.
Are your joists TJIs spanning outside to outside?
no inside to inside.
I mean outside wall to outside wall, clear span.
Necessity is not the mother of invention, curiosity is. Where's your sense of adventure, tie a rope to the base of the post, the other end to your truck bumper, and pull it out. One more thing, make sure you start with the truck sitting outside the garage.
Bumpers being what bumpers are these days, he might just leave it in the garage as he drives off...;)
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Sister on 9 more 25 ft long 2x12s, then remove the post. Same strenght then. Be sure the end walls can take 2x the load.
Doesn't anyone use load tables anymore? Hire an engineer is the first thing out of everyone's mouth. While it's nice that the op has an engineer friend, it still hits me as odd that the only people who have any ability to size a simple beam are engineers.
Sketch out the structural components of the garage, take it to apply for the permit that you surely should have, and the city will probably size the beam for you. Heck, even a good lumber yard could do it.
That's not including the multitude of carpenters that actually do this type of work on a consistant basis and can read a load table.
Beer was created so carpenters wouldn't rule the world.