Hi all,
I’m frequent reader, but haven’t posted before. I’m part of the “other 50%” of FH readers: the non-pro. I like doing projects well with the right tools, but I also appreciate hiring a good contractor for larger/advanced or time-sensitive projects.
My wife and I are considering purchasing a home that requires substantial remodeling/redecorating but appears to have great bones and a good floor plan. (This is a true “one and only” decorating… er… masterpiece.) In addition, the owners put in a smallish in-ground swimming pool right in the middle of the backyard. No big deal, except that a) it’s Illinois b) there is a neighborhood pool literally < 200 yds away c) no fence.
The house could be quite a bargain, but I have no idea where to turn for information about whether this is a good idea, what type of contractor should I turn to first, any surprise issues I’m not thinking about, etc.
Any advice or experiences?
I should note, I’m part of the miniscule part of the population who pulled a permit when finishing my basement, so any solution will be on the up-and-up.
Replies
Check with your building department, but you can probably lose the pool by throwing the rubble into the empty pool and covering the whole thing with fill.
You will probably have to do it in lifts - adding fill as you go to minimize voids and future settling. Leave the rubble area a foot or so below finish grade so you can landscape without fighting chunks of old concrete - lol.
If you do this, make a good drawing showing the location of the old rubble filled pool and keep it with your other important house documents. Someday, someone will appreciate knowing where the rubble is buried.
assuming the pool has concrete as a form, break up the concrete to get rid of the pool, use the debris as fill and then do the fill as previously mentioned
Does this pool have a plastic liner? The older pools are usually all concrete but the more modern versions are a plastic liner that is supported off a metal form at the top of the pool, water line, and usually a concrete surround. I have heard horror stories of people draining liner pools that can cave in when the water pressure is gone. These pools are usually sand troweled behind the liner and need the water for support.
This could do some of the work for you. Assumming the liner could stiil be removed if it did cave in., but probably unlikely.
Rent a jackhammer for a day. Punch a grid of holes in the bottom, about 2'-3' OC.
Take off the top 2'-3' of pool rim. Or down to the clay layer if that's first. Leave rubble in pool.
Add 6"-12" layer of cheapest gravel or rubble. Fill, in 6"-18" lifts, with cheapest fill. A small dump truck should be about right for 1 lift. Roughly compact lifts.
Add topsoil.
If you're going to DIY, the first weekend, start poking holes, schedule the dump of gravel/rubble to arrive about 2-3 hours after you start. you can spread this whenyou're done taking off the top of the pool.
The next weekend rent a Jumping Jack and arrange for 1 smallish dump truck to bring you fill. You can compact one load while he is getting the next load. Don't compact it too much. Don't worry about getting the cheap fill level or even smooth. Keep the Jumping Jack moving fast and don't run twice over the same area. You just want to get rid of voids.
SamT
SamT gave you the best advice. The only note I'd add is that in poking holes, the idea is not to leave any part of the old pool bottom in a condition to hold a significant amount of water. You want it all to drain thru.
-- J.S.
The last pool I removed , my excavator found a large rock, probably about 2 tons, he would drop the rock from as high as his machine would lift, to the pool bottom. That quickly pulverized the bottom, then the walls were easily pulled into the center. We had fill on site from the addition excavation, so the removal and filling took all of 5-6 hours.
I agree with Dave, check with your local City on what they require. I have done many pool demos in Dallas and surrounding areas and each city is different. Some require all material removed, others require that exposed steel must be cut and removed and the rest reduced to smaller sizes and 2ft below grade and filled. Then others really don't have any guidelines. But this is Texas LOL:)))) Who knows what they require in your area.
I would suggest that using a jackhammer is a lot of hard work on a gunite pool. They usually start around 6inches in thickness and I've seen the bottoms go to 12" thick with rebar on 8in to 12in centers and some with double overlap of rebar. Costs wise you would be better off finding someone with a Bobcat and Hammer attachment. Break out the shallow end and make a rubble ramp to get access into the pool and bust away. We usually can demo a pool, fill, pack and resod in about 10hrs/1 day.
Depending on sod availability, and fill ,cost runs about $3000.00 to $4500.00 depending on the size and access. THe last one I did was 16ft by 28ft with 3-8ft depth. took 60yrds of fill, 10 yrds topsoil and that also included leaving the pool rubble also.
One more thing, even if a permit is not required, you may want to get one . It may have an effect on the property taxes, to prove it was removed and lower the taxes ( check with city on that).
Just my .02cents worth.
Mike K
Mikro hit on the points I would have. Even touched on how some jurisdictions can require that you haul all of the pool debris away, and not use it as fill (filter, pump, & piping as less-ideal things to bury in some municipality's opinions).
Get before, during, and after photos to show your insurance company. You've reduced an "attractive nuisance," which should be reflected in the insurance rate.
Hmm, oh yeah, this is still just an idea, right? Is there good access to back where the pool is? (Like can we get a small dump truck, or a backhoe in?)
Hmm, you did not say where in Illinois (the gavel drivers would really like it if you fill in some Profile info); have you considered a storm shelter to put in the excavation that would be there? Have you considered a "basement" for an add-on that does not (or might not) exist? Normally really big, deep, holes in the ground are expensive, and you've one somewhat ready-made.
Just jumping out of the box a bit.
These are great thoughts. I think the 2-ton boulder method may be the most exciting...
If we're able to get the property at the discount it deserves, it sounds like my stops are to the building department, the insurance agency, then the contractor. I'm not going to do it myself, but I'll definitely watch. All this talk of demolition, machinery, and jack hammers is causing me to rethink my desk job!
The house already has a basement, and the pool is literally right in the middle of the yard, with no fence or even any concrete leading up to it. And it's just not that big. So, I'm not sure what I could turn it into except a skateboard park. But, it's a corner lot so I'm sure we can find a way to get some heavy equipment in there.
I appreciate the help. Like I said, if we end up buying this place, I'll return with a picture of the demo.
And, CapnMac, I'll get to updating my profile.
What about keeping the pool and making it a water garden and or koi pond? Would be a lot cheaper than paying for the demo and hey its probably already plumbed and ready to go. Probably change the type of media in the filter and away you could go.
I nice water garden/koi pond can be a lot nicer to look at and relax around than plain grass.
Just a thought.
Daniel Neuman
Oakland CA
Crazy Home Owner
You must must must check with the local buildings dept first. I worked for a company that just went ahead and pulverized the bottom of a pool and filled it in, withot filing for it. Turns out it was done all wrong and they were made to dig up the entire affair and replace with approved fill. Cost them piles and piles of $$.
I like Madscientist's suggestion. A water garden would be nice.
For what it is worth, 46 years ago my parents bought a new house that had been designed to open up around an inground cement swimming pool.
My mother made the contractor take out the pool. My brothers and I were mortified.
For years afterwards, every spring we had pieces of rebar pushing up through the grass.
I think MiKro and MadScientist are pointing you in the right direction.
No need to do any of this by hand, that's what machines are for.
Get your ducks in a row, find out what the city wants, and let us know. We'll manage the heck out of this one for you. <G>
It's actually a fairly common procedure that MadScientist is suggesting. Sometimes folks just don't want the maintenance hassles of a big pool. The spa dealers have caught on, and are selling people hot tubs, those funny little pools where you swim but don't go anywhere because the water moves, and ponds.
You'll want to knock a few holes in the bottom of the old pool no matter what so water doesn't lay in there and sour. If you find that there is no need to demo the bottom of the pool, look in the Yellow Pages under concrete and see who does cutting and drilling. I've had 8 inch holes drilled in 6" reinforced walls for pretty cheap. In your case, it should definitely be less than renting a 90# hammer and a 100 cfm compressor for the day. Not to mention someone has to run that thing in the bottom of a pool.
If the pool does have to be broke up, an excavation contractor can do that in pretty short order. They have BIG hydraulic hammers that fit on a backhoe or if necessary a track hoe. Unless your pool is built to withstand nuclear attack, it will take more time to get the machine to and from the job than it will to destroy the pool. If the pieces need to come out (you'll find out when you talk to the AHJ -- I learned that acronym here at Breaktime <G>), then a backhoe or a track hoe with a thumb can lift the pieces out. Working in big pieces saves a lot of time and mess.
If you don't need to demo the whole pool, but only part of the top, it would be worth drilling a hole and seeing how thick the wall is. If it's less than about 6 inches thick, a sawcut and a machine with a thumb can snap it off easily.
If you want to put a pond or a hot tub in, then use clean fill (base course and crusher fines works great) and compact it in 8" lifts up to the bottom of your new yard feature. Install the new whatever, and fill in around the edges.
Keep us posted.
Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success.
-Albert Schweitzer, philosopher, physician, musician, Nobel laureate
(1875-1965)
I would just open up a can of Schmidt's Gay.
Hilarious, AAA. Nothing like a little SNL humor.
As a fellow reader and homeowner, it's great that you're considering purchasing a home with substantial remodeling potential. Dealing with the in-ground pool installation in Illinois, especially without a fence, does raise some important considerations. To ensure a successful project, start by consulting with a reputable contractor experienced in both remodeling and pool-related work. They can assess the pool's condition, safety concerns, and potential renovation options.
Additionally, explore local regulations regarding pool safety and permits, as compliance is crucial. You might also want to connect with your future neighbors to gauge their experiences and any potential issues with the neighborhood pool's proximity. By taking these steps and staying on the up-and-up with permits and regulations, you can make an informed decision and transform your new home into a true decorating masterpiece.
As a fellow reader and homeowner, it's great that you're considering purchasing a home with substantial remodeling potential. Dealing with the in-ground pool installation in Illinois, especially without a fence, does raise some important considerations. To ensure a successful project, start by consulting with a reputable contractor experienced in both remodeling and pool-related work. They can assess the pool's condition, safety concerns, and potential renovation options. Additionally, explore local regulations regarding pool safety and permits, as compliance is crucial. You might also want to connect with your future neighbors to gauge their experiences and any potential issues with the neighborhood pool's proximity. By taking these steps and staying on the up-and-up with permits and regulations, you can make an informed decision and transform your new home into a true decorating masterpiece.