I am assembling a proposal to completely gut and rebuild a condominium unit. If it were a single family house it would be easy, however I expect working on a suite within a large building will have its challenges. I am aware of restricted working hours, elevator access for materials, parking challenges… What I am looking for is any experienced feedback on work site issues and where I should be careful about contract details to cover some of the likely eventualities.
“Marathon Man”
A high-performance single-family home builder shares tips from his early experience with two apartment buildings.
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial NowGet instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
My first thought is how are you going to handle materials and waste?
I recommend a cart that you can dump in their dumpster if you are allowed to use it.
I also like (I think ponytl suggested this) the idea of using hotel maids carts to haul tools in and out.
If scraping the ceiling check to see if it is popcorn or plaster :(
Also if removing tile you might want to do a sample demo as I ran into the tile from h... :/
ANDYSZ2
WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
I have added these to my punch list. Thank you.
I lived in a co-op in New York City for 20 years and was involved with the board of directors for about 15 years. In that time I dealt a lot with construction issues. The most important thing we always requested was the correct insurance. All polices had to carry a min of one million dollars liability (now its five million) and the named insured had to be the unit owner and the board of directors and the management company. Check with the managing agent or the board pres. about insurance requirements. Don't just trust the unit owner, they often do not know the rules.
This is a good one. I spoke to the building manager today and they do not care what insurance the contractor has, they insist the unit owner have the liability. They figure that the people who own the place have deeper pockets than the contractor. Did not see a win in arguing. Thanks for the feedback.
Material handling, including tools.
Waste/debris handling.
Dust collection.
And in most such developments, parking.
Those will be issues.
And as noted by another poster, be sure you know what the HOA expects.
I quick meeting with the building super should be at the top of your list.
I cringe when we are going to just paint on W57th NYNY. A gut project would be a nightmare.
I met the management this afternoon. Thank you. it was a great experience.
Make nice nice with the neighbors above, below, and on either side. Really kill them with kindness before you start. Get their schedules so you have an idea of when it will be o.k. to do the loud stuff.
I feel sorry for the neighbours. There are about 60 suites in the building and 12 of them are under complete gut and re-build status. The noise there is outlandish, and I like making noise. They have a simple policy, that states if we are to make noise, we have to tell management the day before and they post notices to all neighbours. Makes my life easier, but I am sure it will not be simple.
Thanks for helping.
Depending on the age/quality of mechanical, things can be really unpleasant. Couple years back we exposed a failing 1 1/2" water riser that had to be repaired. Most recent job the CI toilet/lav combo fitting was split and rusted through, and we had to cut into a 6" stack and replace.
So make sure your contract says who is responsible for seeking permission from the building to do unforseen mechanical work, and at who's expense.
Check your access dimensions. Like if you have to use the inside of a frieght (or, heaven forfend, one of the passenger) elevators, vuersu being able to use the elevator cab roof.
That then dovetails into whether or not you need/want to recieve materials deliveries on site. (If you have to cut down materials to deliverable sizes, you might want to take suppliers' deliveries at your shop, then trans-ship them to the job site.)
Check on how you can (or how you are allowed) to remove demolition debris. Having to bag debris can take extra time. Having to park the bags on what is usually a vastly under-sized recieving dock to load into your own vehicles is also under-fun.
If the building/hoa will let you use a dumpster, look into closed ones, rather than open. It's real tempting to have a chute out the window to an open dumpster, that is, until the building makes you wash all that dust off the outside of the building.
Best situation is where you are in a converted industrial/storage building, which will have nice, big loading docks and service entrances. You can then have materials delivered, and debris removed in an elegant way. Boy, I would have liked to worked a TI project like that . . . <g>
Great feed back and thank you. My experience is singe family homes and new lofts such as you describe with the massive elevators. This place I learned today cannot accomodate an 8' sheet in the elevator, not a 10' stud. I hope the elevator is big enough for the cheques.
Thanks for your feedback.
Nothing to add, just a question:"Is it safe?"http://www.quittintime.com/ View Image
This place I learned today cannot accomodate an 8' sheet in the elevator, not a 10' stud. I hope the elevator is big enough for the cheques.
Well, see if you are allowed to pop the roof hatch for studs, if they do not allow cab-roof carry (may take an internet search, some cabs are rated for roof lift, some are not--why anybody in a posh place would limit the furniture to "fits in cab" is beyond me).
If they allow cab-roof carry, see if they require one of their people to be present 9to drive the cab), or if you can (this can be an additional expense; if they gripe, mention complications of exterior materials lifts).
Otherwise, you get the joy of re-envisioning all of your framing and finish work using non-standard material sizes (dryway sheets look odd at either 80" or 64" lengths). Having to peice together studs for 15' tall lofts, or 1-plus story spaces is also under-fun. (Don't ask about getting 20ga galvanized studs for a 26' wall into that penthouse job<shudder>.)Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)
Most yards around here stock 72" drywall for this very reason. Fun!
Include in your bid a bunch of moving blankets to protect halls and elevator.
ANDYSZ2WHY DO I HAVE TO EXPLAIN TO FRIENDS AND FAMILY THAT BEING A SOLE PROPRIETOR IS A REAL JOB?
REMODELER/PUNCHOUT SPECIALIST
Do you work in Manhattan? Hopefully will be needing some help come 5/09 on a brownstone remodel, long term project.
Yes, we do work all over NYC, including frequent gigs in Manhattan. Lemme know what you are working on, always looking for interesting new projects!
1. Make sure stuff actually fits in the elevator. I was sent to measure some shelving for the cabinet guy to fab, on a job I had never been to before. One of them didn't fit, so they lumped it up 22 floors of stairs. Full marks for them.
2. Thoroughly dust protect the smoke detectors. Same job, I set one off in demo. Silent alarm in a highrise, so the fire department automatically goes, hook and ladder, sirens, the whole deal. Another black mark for me.
Other than that, I'm pretty competent.
John
Thoroughly dust protect the smoke detectors. Same job, I set one off in demo. Silent alarm in a highrise,
Now, that sounds kind of backasswards, don't you think?
I sure would like to know if my place was on fire. Oh well, I guess some people really hate to be bothered.
Let there be noise, lots of loud noise
As a member of the Board of Managers of a ca. 1960, 150 unit, 12 floor condominium, I just finished a set of instructions and requirements for owners wanting to remodel their unit. So now you'll hear it from the management's perspective. Our greatest concern was fire hazards affecting the whole building and a large number of residents. These hazards are mostly the result of inept electrical wiring and the inadequate repair of penetrations through fire rated ceilings, floors, and walls, and particularly around pipe chases and major ventilation ducts. Since we didn't want to put our employees into the role of building inspectors, which they are not, we now require full compliance with all city, county, state, and federal building codes and the professional inspections that follow. The unit owner is made fully responsible for assuring that this actually happens. They must provide management with copies of all required permits, workmen's credentials, and appropriate insurance before work can begin, and all inspection reports as they occur. It may sound like management is passing the buck and covering our behinds, but we couldn't think of any better way to protect our residents. Having remodeled a number of condo units myself, I know this can be an expensive and job delaying hassle but, in our building, the contractors just have to take that into account.
Thanks for your reply and advice. I again met with the management yesterday. I went in expecting hostility (they have their own company that does unit renovation), but came out armed with all kinds of helpful building and suite information, drawings, and yes rules and guidelines. I find my life so much better when we can make these decisions and expectations in advance. It has proven to save me a lot of time and both me and my customers a lot of money.
Thank you again.
They guidelines are very useful, and I too find them somewhat comforting. Nice to know the rules of the road ahead of time. Of course, lots of supers feel free to make them up from there, which diminishes the 'greatness' of them.It is interesting to study though--like a laundry list of every boneheaded move a somone has ever made in the building.
I will try not to make the list longer!
Heh--most of it ain't NASA.And most good GC's know way more than supers + agents combined.
Thanks for your post. In the last building I lived in there were neither guidelines nor requirements for permits. That's not legal, of course, but the inspectors are to busy to look for more work. The building manager had risen over the years from a lowly position and had been their long enough to have convinced the management company, the Board, and the old ladies that he knew just about everything. By god, he supervised all the work in the building and didn't want inspectors in there causing trouble. Now, of course, since I do know everything, I recognized him as the most ignorant fool I had ever met in a position of such responsibility. When I pointed out that a friend's unit, recently remodeled by the team he most frequently recommended to owners, had tangles of new wiring just hanging in a fire rated pipe chase, wire nutted together without benefit of boxes, conduit, or any attempt to repair the fire barrier, he said it couldn't have been them, they don't need supervision, they're all Christian gentlemen. I didn't even want to mention that 10, or even 20 strands of speaker wire are not an adequate substitute for 12g MC. That's when I knew that every big building deserves permits and professional inspections.
I would re consider the suggestion SBDS made about insurance requirements.
I only install granite countertops and years ago I recall my liability insurance agent strongly discouraging me from ever considering work on condos due to some sort of hugely increased potential for being named in a lawsuit down the road for work that was totally unrelated to my countertops or even the unit I had worked on. I have never done work in condos and never looked into the agents warning but I would recommend double checking it.
It wouldn't hurt to ask your liability insurance provider if there is anything you need to be aware of.
Karl
What floor will you be working on? The reason I ask, is that we often have a piece of glazing removed, and have our drywall and steel studs delivered through the window by a scissor lift. With a little conniving, they will normally deliver other materials also.
We are replacing the windows and there is a nice balcony. Unfortunately under our unit is all grass and landscape and no trucks are allowed on it. Booming only works at the other end of the building. We are hoping one of the units down the hall starts renovating at the same time so we can borrow their balcony and boom up.
Not sure if this was mentioned but make good buddies with the service engineer (janitor, maintenance tech, whatever the title). He knows the ropes and loopholes, and can make life a lot easier for you. Especially if you're a good tipper! ;)
It's really nice to have someone take away all the little debris created after the general demolition is done and gone.
View Image
run everything past the condo association before you do anything.
I refuse to accept that there are limitations to what we can accomplish. Pete Draganic
Take life as a test and shoot for a better score each day. Matt Garcia
Definitely check with condo management, AND actually yourself read the condo rules that apply to construction. Even management might "forget" to mention something in the rules.