How much should I take out of a deposit for a tenant melting a few courses of vinyl siding?
You can see the course under the window is pretty deformed. The one above, which is at the left on the bottom of the window, was replaced with a piece he found in the garage. There is not a piece long enough to replace the mangled one…and there is a small amount of damage to the course above the replaced course.
The heat also cracked the window, he is paying 100% of the repair costs there…but how much should I take out of his deposit for the remaining damage? I don’t want to be a dick, but this house is on the market and the chances of me finding a replacement piece that is similarly weathered and faded are essentially nil.
Replies
One of my tenants did the same thing ! I say $250 would not be at all unreasonable. But if the house is boing put on the market, that blemish could easily cost you $1000. I'd do my best to lose it - snatch a piece from low on the back of the house, behind the bushes if you have to.
Greg
I thought about that...but since it is cut around the window, there is no way to use that piece anywhere else. It sucks...I hate to take their whole deposit ($300) because they were good renters, but still....
BBQ grill?"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Jesse can you get a piece new? If so do a swap put the new piece behind the bushes somewhere, use that weather piece below the window. It looks like a pretty recent job Last 10 years? I have not done it, but have seen it done on Ask TOH there is an unlocking tool to get the j unlocked so as not to remove the whole side. In all honesty it should be no more then a 2 hour job plus 2-3 hours of run around time. Legally you need to look at it as how much an outside company would charge, not how much you want. Which come to how easy to find a close match, Idea any one in you neighborhood have the same siding? Usually where there is one job some one a few blocks away has the same, they may have an extra case in there garage. Lowes had something similar in color and style in stock.Wallyo
Edited 4/3/2008 11:15 am ET by wallyo
Jesse,
Just one more thought from an ins. agent perspective. If this clown had Renters Insurance, this would almost certainly be a covered loss, and there's no deductible for a liability claim like this. He may not think this would be a covered loss for huim; he may not have thought to call. They would need a date of loss - if he can't remember, just use the Fourth of July.
Ask him if he has Renters Insurance. Hey, if they can't make a satisfactory match on a repair, they may have to reside the entire side of the house.
Greg
Greg Renter's usually just covers content, so if his grill caught fire or blew up the grill would be covered but not the house that goes back to homeowners. Which just a caution to Jesse if for some reason he has a HO policy only you may now want to go telling them it is a rental, on this one. A lot of people buy their first house and have a HO policy, then buy a second, move to that one and never change the policy on the first to a Non HO occupied. If that is the case get it corrected, but don't go making a claim if you never changed it, they will drop you like a rock. Better to repair it yourself then getting the insurance to reside the one one side. Now if the carrier knows it is a rental and insured as such make a claim. But, it probably looks worse in person, from the photo I had to look hard to see the damage, hay it least the tenant tried at a repair and did his best.
Oh one more bit of caution if Jesse makes a claim on his insurance, the carrier has every right to sue the tenant to cover the loss. Whether they would is another story.Wallyo
Edited 4/3/2008 1:38 pm ET by wallyo
Not so, Wally. Licensed Property & Casualty Insurance guy here, 23 years. Renters Insurance, alson known as Tenant Homeowners Insurance does cover liability. Most common are if the tenant's dog bites a child - (warning, both the tenant / owner of the dog AND the property owner will most likely be held liable). Second is the negligent grease fire on the stove. Tenant puts on the oil and goes outside or falls asleep. If he has renters insurance, his policy covers the damage.
You are right on one point - in the grease fire, if the tenant doesn't have insurance, the property owner can file on his own policy but the insurance company would subrogate against the tenant, even to the point of garnishing wages. It's a negligent fire loss. Tentant's fault.
So, yes, this guy would have coverage if he has renters insurance. He didn't do it on purpose, obviously - this is the sort of thing a prudent tenant has insurance coverage for.
Greg
I stand corrected hit me with a wet noodle, I have always heard of renters insurance described as an "contents coverage policy " by the industry never as an contents and liability policy. More should be done to promote the liability aspect. But in this case the actual damage is probably less then the deductible if the one piece can be replaced. If residing is involved that is a different story.As a side bar Greg does coverage extend if a tenant tears the snot out of you property?WallyoEdited 4/3/2008 4:47 pm ET by wallyo
Edited 4/3/2008 4:48 pm ET by wallyo
Wet noodle time - there's no deductible for a liability claim. If you rear end another vehicle and have no damage to your own truck, there's no deductible.
Renters Insurance is really a package policy - it normally covers even such things as "loss of use". Say you have a grease fire, or lightning hits the breaker panel - and you can't stay in the home. Renters Insurance will pay for a motel room, meals, laundry, and expenses above and beyond your normal living expenses related to the covered loss. Even covers theft away from the premises - most people don't know that. Laptop, leather jacket, purse stolen from your car in Seattle or Atlanta - it's covered by your Renters Insurance back home. Nope, not your car insurance, that doesn't cover personal property.
The liability part is why I took out a policy on my daughter in college when she was renting a house. She was trying to learn to cook, and if she had started a kitchen fire, she would be responsible, whether she had insurance or not.
So even if this melted siding were only $280, if the tenant had insurance, it would almost certainly be covered, and with no deductible.
Now, on to lesson #2, Life Insurance . . .
Greg ;>)
Greg Ok double wet noodle I forgot the fault issue, HO no deductible he must be made whole. But wouldn't the tenant have a deductible to pay for the damage to the HO's property.Now I hope you are not to try and sell me a whole life policy.Wallyo
No, no deductible at all for a liability claim. If it had been, say, the tenants own . . . um, well, above ground pool that was damaged by the heat from the grill, then, YES, there would be a deductible. But for a liability claim, involving someone else's property - no deductible.
Greg
Oh, some policies cover vandalism and some don't. And "vandalism" is usually defined as someone unknown, not a legal resident. So a tenant that kicks holes in the walls, trashes the house, well, you better have a good deposit up front.
Burglary and vandalism are optional coverages, at least in my State. I always add it for my own clients - it adds about $60 to the annual premium.
Greg
"In all honesty it should be no more then a 2 hour job plus 2-3 hours of run around time. Legally you need to look at it as how much an outside company would charge, not how much you want."In CA, a landlord cannot bill the tenant for his own time spent on repairs, only what he pays a third party to do work.
BruceT
So you are confirming that I am correct for Ca at least, except they must also do the work? What if in Ca you get two or three bids can you charge back to the tenant the lesser bid amount? Jesse is in Montana.Wallyo
Landlord/tenant law is heavily slanted in favor of tenants in many places, including California. Landlords here may withhold cost of repairs from tenant's deposit for damage caused by the tenant beyond "normal wear and tear" but only for out-of-pocket expenses; materials purchased and whatever they paid for third party labor. Work performed by the landlord cannot be charged to the tenant even at prevailing rates.
BruceT
I think you'll find that they're "heavily slanted" because of a long history of landlords abusing their power with regard to deposits. Many landlords have a history of always coming up with "cleaning charges" that exactly match the size of the deposit, even when the apartment was spotless when vacated.Unfortunately, as is always the case, a lot of good landlords lose out because of a minority of bad ones.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
this is classic,good tenant ,does everything he's suppose to,but makes a screw up and you feel bad taking his deposit.
whats it cost to fix this? i'd figure 3 hours of run around time trying to get close,then i would peel off a pc somewhere that didn't show so much and put the new one in ,then take that one and go fix the melted one. there goes another three hours. so i would have 25.00 in replacement pc,6 hours labor at 30 a hour,180,then i have to getthe window fixed there goes another 100.guess what his deposit is gone. if you really feel bad tell him this and ask if he wants to locate a pc and help,he will say no,i betcha.
plus when your done it's not as good as it was before he fired the bbq up. larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
I wonder if you could smooth the piece out with a heat gun or blow dryer, heat it just a bit and flatten it with a board on the underside? caution I would still take the piece down in trying that who knows what combustible lies underneath.Wallyo
You don't need to replace the entire length (though of course it looks better if you do). A few 4-foot lengths should suffice.
all of it, $100 for repair, the rest for stupity
every dime you can get
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another roofer i knew patched in 10 shingles on one side of the roof, Another contractor{a bad apple} came along and told the people to say they wanted the whole side done to match, Not sure if insurance or contractor paid but it went to the Builders board and they sided with the homeowner. never happened to me but i tell everyone i may not be able to match anything if they wanta spend a month running down the perfect match thats on you, The reason is because we live in a place far from home depots and such places , If the place was built by contractors far away we can never find out where they bought from. We only have a couple of lumberyards.
If you do not plan to fix it, you are NOT entitled to charge for it.
Fix it and bill him. To do otherwise is little more than stealing his deposit.
That would depend on state law. The damage diminishes the value of the structure, and the landlord is morally entitled to collect for that diminished value.
What is wanted is not the will to believe, but the will to find out, which is the exact opposite. --Bertrand Russell
You point of not finding anything new that looks as weathered is well taken but frankly the piece he found in the garage matches pretty close. I wouldn't discount getting new stuff.
Of course you could tell him that grill turned a whole house of fine fiber cement into the look of cheap vinyl.....wink.
Runnerguy