We have several Simpson galv post/column anchors that are rusting out on the columns supporting our deck & roof. Years & years of dogs peeing on them. Having a GC do some other work around here & asked him what he would suggest for repairs/preservation. The only thing he came up with was digging out around the columns and pouring a concrete collar around the lower part of the column & upper part of the footing to anchor everything as the metal continues to rot.
Do you think that’s a viable solution or would you suggest something else?
The columns are single PT 6x6s from footing to ceiling covered by trim above the deck.
Pics follow:
Edited 7/31/2009 2:35 pm ET by bd
Replies
Assuming you have a concrete footer somewhat larger than the post, I'd just jack up each column a bit, grind or saw out the rusty stuff, slip a stainless spacer between the post and the concrete, and bolt on a couple of stainless angles, one leg to the concrete and one to the post.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Everything fits, until you put glue on it.
Mike,Thanks for the idea. I dug down to the top of the piers this morning. They are plenty big to follow your suggestion. However, as you can see in the pic labeled "col 3", the lower end of one of the posts is already a little punky.I think I'm going to try to do a better job of maintaining drainage & let them be for the near term with full replacement later.Ed
Edited 8/1/2009 3:16 pm ET by bd
I don't think that's good approach. It would tend to retain moisture against the posts and cause them to deteriorate faster.
If the posts are still held securely despite the rusting post anchors, then I wouldn't do anything. If they're not, then replacing the post anchors, which is basically what MkeHennessy suggested, may be the only alternative.
It would also be a good idea to keep the bottom of the posts clear of contact with the soil. That doesn't appear to be the case as is.
What ever you do about the anchors you must re grade the earth so it is not against the new anchors or exactly the same thing will happen again. The top of the soil and rocks should be 5" to 10" below the bottom of the galvanized anchor or it will just rust out.
Jim
Don,I agree that the concrete collar is not a good idea. I just wanted some expert feedback to support my position.Also, see response to Pif below.Thanks, Ed
still loading those photos down, but I can easily say that his suggestion is dead wrong.
First - the rusting would continue inside that slug of a concrete collar. Rusting metal expands and that would put internal pressure in the crete to fracture it.
Second, I never like to see posts set into crete because they retain water and when it freezes and expands, the collar cracks. That held water is not healthy for the post base either.
Now that I've seen the bases, I can't imagine them going anyplace. since you have them sitting down in the soil instead of standing clear, they will be rotting off before that metal finishes rusting away.
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Piffin,Thanks for the feedback. I did a little more excavating this morning & found that the bottom of one post is already on its way out. The post bottoms were slightly above ground level when installed. It's embarrassing to admit, but I walk past those things 10 times every day and never realized how much stone had been pushed up against them. That, of course, later filled in with slit from the runoff of my driveway which is uphill from there.I think I'm just going to try to do a better job of maintaining drainage & let them be until total replacement is warranted.Ed
I’m currently working on a project with a similar problem. Our solution is to dowel into the top of the existing piers with green rod, anchored with Epcon epoxy, and pour pier extensions that end up 4-6” above grade.
We’ll then Epcon-in four 1/2” threaded rods per 6x6 post, and use 5 1/2” lengths of 5x5 angle as post bases which will sit an inch or so above the concrete, leveled and tweaked with the double-nut system commonly used on street light/ traffic signal poles.
After we cut off the bottom, punky ends of the posts, all of our wood will be high and dry, and since the piers we are building off of are a bit suspect, our double-nut fix will also allow for future adjustment.
We’d like to do it right, but the projections for retrofitted piers come in at about $25,000 for this hillside site with poor access.
We’re guessing that the double-nut levelers will have to be cranked up 1/2” or so in 10-15 years. Our clients are willing to live with that, and are fully aware that we’re going way off of the reservation to do this -- they have agreed to leave no paper trail that might leave us liable.
Wouldn’t do it if they weren’t friends!
Aitchkay
Thanks. Since we have some other, more significant repairs, going on right now, I think I'll wait a while on these. However, your response & jv's comments above raise another question.The trim around the columns, above the decking, is rotting out also. As a result, installing temporary support, disassembling the deck enough to remove and install new 6x6s would not be that much of a problem. But, it would not be something I wouldn't want to tackle right now with everything else that is going on. If I did that without raising the piers to keep the post anchors and bottom of the posts further above the soil level, I'd just be recreating the same problem. Like your job, removing & repouring the piers would be something I would like to avoid. In my case, though, since I think I can get sufficient working room around the tops of the piers, would epoxing in some rebar into the existing piers and pouring, say, a 6" extension on top to set new post anchors in be a reasonable approach?If that's reasonable, what do I do about the seam between the pier extension & the original pier. That's going to be just below ground level. Although I can do some grading to help drainage, it would seem to me that the freezing of moisture in that seam could be a potential problemEd
Edited 8/3/2009 7:44 am ET by bd
I'm no concrete expert, but what we did was to clean the existing surface well, use a bonding agent, and make sure that our cap was no larger than the existing, so as to give no lip for frost to catch and heave against.putting a small scoopful of concrete on, and brushing it in thoroughly to eliminate any voids before you dump the wheelbarrow-full in doesn't hurt, either.AitchKay