Hello – just purchased a house and it had the water heater disconnected. I was going to have it put back on but I also saw the rusting on the pipe to the water meter. I’ve attached two pictures.
Would this be a big job to replace this, and how much would you estimate that it would cost?
Thank you.
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Replies
Trail post--if this comes
Trial post--if this comes thru, see next.
OK, it worked this time. (I've had a number posts recently that never showed up.)
The pics show what looks like a copper line that feeds the meter and house. The rust originates on the galvanized fittings that were connected directly to the copper without the use of a di-electric union (which is simply a fitting that breaks the path of electrical continuity between the copper and the galvanized. This is needed to prevent electro-chemical corrosion, which is what you are seeing.
The fix is easy: just replace the rusted galvanized fittings and use a di-electric union to start at the copper line.
Thank you rdesigns for your reply! I'm glad to hear that this isn't a huge deal. However, I am almost positive that the line that feeds the house (the rusted pipe) is actually galvanized pipe. Most of the pipes in the house are galvanized. Therefore, a couple of follow up questions:
is the fix still easy?
Would I use a copper fitting over the galvanized pipe (with the di-electric union) or since it is galvanized pipe would I need to use a galvanized fitting (not sure if those are sold anymore)?
Does the pipe itself look like it needs to be replaced, based on the picture, or just the fitting?
Thanks again for your reply. As you can tell, I am really new to this and am trying to learn as much as I can. I'm a new first time home owner so this should be interesting!
I am almost certain the incoming line is copper. Check this by scraping thru the accumulated rust to expose the base metal to see if it's copper or galvanized.
Thanks again for your quick reply. I am unfortunately not returning to the new home until the end of the month, so I cannot check that. I did look at the inspection report and the person who inspected the house for me indicated that "The water supply piping to the house is copper, and the water distribution piping through the house is galvanized iron pipe", so it appears that you are right! Based on this, I do have a few more questions:
Given the amount of rust, would you replace the water meter at the same time (I'm thinking that the rust would be pretty bad in the water meter)? If so, do I request one from the utility company, or can this be purchased separately?
Would the pipe itself have to be replaced given the amount of rust on the outside? Or is it enough to scrape off or use a checmical treatment to get the rust off of the outside (what would you use)? If it needs to be replaced, any cost estimate on this?
Thanks so much!
The copper is not rusting--the rust you see is from the galv. fitting above. Copper "rust", or corrosion is green, not red like iron oxide.
The meter is brass and should not need replacement.
Electolytic corrosion in this situation means that the iron (the anode) is being sacrificed to the copper (cathode), so there has been no damage to the copper itself in the process. The damaged galvanized fitting(s) can easily be replaced, and the brass meter has acted as a sort of buffer to protect the rest of the galv. pipe in the indoor system.
Cut the copper below the fitting, remove all of the galvanized on the street side of the meter and plumb it back in copper.
Drop the main breaker when you open that grounding clamp. There may be voltage on it. (bad neutral)
Reinstall it below the cut.
Uh, before cutting the pipe he'd better turn the water off at the curb stop (which may be buried somewhere in the front yard). And in some jurisdictions the water company "owns" the pipes up to the meter, so check with the local water co before doing anything.
And in any event you need the water co to supply a new meter (or at least approve/inspect the one installed), if a new one goes in.
I'd strongly suggest getting a plumber to handle this step, even if the HO reworks much of the rest of the plumbing.
The meter is laying on the floor, I bet the water is off.
G
In the first photo, the meter is hooked up.
In the second, it's on the floor with a plug in the pipe in question.
No guarantee the water is off.
At least that's what I see during the debate.
Cal, that's not a plug, that's just the fitting for the meter.
fitting for the meter?
Unless I'm mistaken, the square end I see is a plug in the union on the right-
.
If the water is cut off at the curb stop then why did they bother to cut it off with the ball valve you can clearly see in the picture, ABOVE the copper section?
BTW, the crud on the outside of the copper isn't due to galvanic action, but is rust deposits due to a slow leak at the fitting. Of course, the leak may be due to galvanic action -- hard to say about that.
In fact, it's probably possible to remove the galv nipple from the ball valve (which is presumably brass) without having to cut anything (and without having to dig up the curb stop). A new insulating nipple could be installed, with sufficient glop to assure that the connection to the nipple wouldn't leak.
You guys are making this too difficult. Replace the galv fittings with brass and you are done. No need for dielectric.
To the OP, check with the utility in regards to the meter. You also want to make sure that the previous owner stopped the billing and paid up the account.
Yeah, on the right side of the meter one only needs to install brass fittings. (If that -- there's no sign of the sort of white salt buildup that would be associated with galvanic corrosion -- the stuff that's visible is due to seepage of iron-rich water.) On the left an insulating coupling (or at least a long bronze nipple) may be called for (if the galv isn't going to be replaced) -- depends a lot on local water conditions.
The real question is whether that existing galv can be unscrewed without breaking something.
Turn off the water and do it right. Get rid of all of that galvanized on the street side of the meter.
Well, as I said, the water is aready turned of with that ball valve. So long as the valve and its connection to the copper is not disturbed it should be possible to replace the galv, without having to mess with the curb stop.
But it's something a plumber should do -- someone who knows how to get old fittings apart.
Just be careful around that grounding electrode conductor. Theoretically it is just there for lightning strikes and other faults but if you have a neutral problem, lt may be a current carrying conductor.
That is clearly a ball valve in the pictures. In the picture taken with the meter in place you can see the tip of the lever sticking up. In the shot with the meter removed the lever has been turned 90 degrees and is quite obvious.
The question, as I say, is whether the galvanized fitting can be safely removed from the top of that valve without risking damage to the joint between valve and copper. An experienced plumber would have the right tools/techniques and would know how much force he could safely use.
As to the curb stop, sometimes they're obvious (a roughly 8-inch diameter cast iron disk somewhere in the yard with the word "WATER" embossed on it), and sometimes they're buried to one extent or another. In the worst case they're buried under the driveway or concrete sidewalk.
I have another question about this. I was discussing this with someone and they asked if this actually would be the city's responsibility. I've looked online and here's a quote from their website:
"WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR LEAKS IN MY METER, VALVES AND SERVICE LINE? The City Water customers are responsible to repair any leaks in the water service from the property line into the home or business, and to keep the valves on both sides of the meter in good operating condition. The City will maintain the meter and meter connections; and service line from the property line to the water main, including the stop box and valve. In the case of a damaged, frozen, lost or stolen meter, the customer is responsible for the replacement cost of the meter."
It sounds like this is my responsibility (I was assuming that it was) but what I don't understand is what it means by: "The City will maintain the meter and meter connections; and service line from the property line to the water main, including the stop box and valve." I contacted the city and they said that they are responsible for re-attaching the meter.
The city guys want to check the meter installation, to assure that it's not bypassed somehow. So they claim ownership of "the connections", even though they don't claim the pipe on either side.
(Do note that there is a wire running from that meter to relay the reading to an outside display. That wire must be kept intact.)
The house-side plumbing looks to be galvanized also? Will a di-electric union between the copper supply tubing and the meter be sufficient when the grounding wire is properly fitted to span the water meter?
To my mind the grounding 'jumper' only exacerbates the problem (though it IS required!!) by providing a current path between the two incompatible pipe materials despite installation of a di-electric union?