The wood window sills on my old farm house have been neglected and they are at the top of my long list of repairs. See closeup window photo and the other of my house. Several are very rotten, and I don’t think grinding out some (or most) of the old sill for repair will do. I can put my finger almost right through some sills. Full replacement is probably the call for most or all of the sills. Note this is a brick house–solid brick–1830s solid brick.
My wife and I are new owners and we plan to be carried out of here feet first, we hope after another 40 years or so. Our strategy is to make good, solid, long-lasting repairs throughout the house–no skimping. I am trying to do some of the work (recall my questions about plaster repair, which is going well), but my time and skills are limited. How would you go about replacing the window sills, and what material would you use? We have wondered about treated wood, untreated but well-painted wood such are redwood, and limestone. Note our brick house is painted white–aesthetically, the limestone may look best painted. What is your experience with painted stone? A long-lasting, low maintenance solution is always nice!
Thank you for your comments and advice. As always, I am grateful.
Marc
Replies
Mark, you're from Ohio.
Where's the pictures?
Don't make us look bad.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
Azek makes sill stock - I used it on my very old house. It takes paint well (comes in white), works with ordinary tools, & is indisinguishable from wood. Certainly, compared to limestone, it's a bargain.
I've heard of using that Trex plastic deck material for window sills, but haven't done it myself yet. It would be ideal for rot resistance, not sure how it holds paint. Maybe pre-paint it with that Krylon fusion plastic paint?
-- J.S.
You can sometimes remove the sills by cutting a section from the middle and pulling the rest out from the side frames. You may also need to cut some nails if any interior trim is attached to it. BUT, 9 times out of 10, if the sills are rotted, the sides are too. If so, and if you want to do a first-class job (and you are not dealing with an historic structure), just replace the whole frame and don't waste time trying to repair it. (Just my $0.02)
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Sorry--here are the photos:
Marc5 -- 1830's only 5 yrs older than mine -- I replaced mine with Andersen 35 yrs ago and have not looked back -- why is this not an option -- $330 - for thermo pane, (not true divide lites) and screens - saves energy and keeps the noise out and we got rid of those ugly storm window affairs that I see your have -- have done a couple of houses this way --- one was stone and the other brick like yours -- all the best Dudley
Acorn's onto something with the white oak. It's quite rot resistant. Just be sure to avoid any sapwood. That's not rot resistant in any species that I'm aware of.
Epoxy repairs are another approach. Tom O'Brien had a great article on epoxy repainrs in FHB about ten years ago. Look it up. One source of epoxy is Abatron - The specialize in structural repairs. Also, consider adding some BoraCare pellets to the wood. That should add years to its life.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
For god's sake don't put plastic or metal or synthwood or any c##p like that near that nice house! Keep it real. Please do the same when your shutters need replaced.
Good old solid American White Oak (never Red) is as good a sill material as there is. Better then Redwood, Treated YP, Cedar, Poplar from the Dark Side or anything else. Find a local small shop that can reproduce the thickness and width and angles you need - don't let them glue for thickness or width. Oil prime it on all sides before you put it in, caulk it and paint it when needed, and it'll last another 75 yrs or so. It really is best if you can remove the frame and repair/reset it at the same time, but most of the old DH windows are designed to replace the sill. No planned obsolescence here, my boys. Unlike the cheapo wonders that pass for windows today - use once, throw away, go buy new - repeat as needed, accept as normal.
Also, be sure that the weeps are open from the storm window to the outside so any moisture can get out. Many well- meaning storm window folks have caused sill rot by buttoning it all up so tight that the inevitable moisture/condensate is forced into the wood sill rather than thru the weeps.
This forum gets an A+ for very helpful people, but sometimes the advice, instead of being from FINE Homebuilding, is more like a bunch of hammer slingers at a Saturday afternoon deck clinic at Homey Dopey.
From an older guy that has seen the best and the worst. My neck hurts from shaking my head at what some people say and do. As Woody Allen said "No matter how cynical you are, it is never enough."
Dave S
http://www.acornwoodworks.com
Dave:
Amen!
Like acornw I'm an old guy but I have a different opinion. I shake my head at people who use old technology when the new stuff is light years ahead. Why replace a rotten sill with another sill that will eventually rot too? If you're going to go to all the trouble of replacing the sills glue up some Azek or Koma and mill them to the original dimensions. NO one but you will ever know and they will still be like new when they carry you through the door for the last time.
You could always use a liquid epoxy. Try the kit from Lee Valley:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=1&p=20075&cat=1,190,42997
The description says it all and I have had great success with it. No issues painting either.
we have traditionally milled sills like this from spanish cedar.
i would definitely consider using Azek or Koma as previously mentioned. i can assure you that you will not be able to tell the difference from real wood.
make sure your new sills project out beyond the face of the bricks to properly shed water. the one shown in your photo looks as though it's inset.
you call that a farmhouse ?
that is one beautiful home, but it's pretty formal for a farmhouse.
carpenter in transition
To my eye that looks like a center hall colonial. But anyway.
If the sills are rotted, how far gone is the glazing and the trim? You might be better off overhauling the entire window, one or two at a time. Pull the whole window out, strip everything, prime, reglaze, paint, put back together, replacing or epoxy as needed.
Not quite a concensus, I would say, but thank you all for some excellent ideas. I was surprised no one suggested the limestone.
Balancing architecture and water flow, how far beyond the brick face should the sill extend? The sill in the photo I included actually is a bit recessed, but most of the sills extend about 1/2".
Many thanks,
Marc
I would extend the sill far enough to accomodate a drip kerf - say, an inch.Andy
"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig." Robert A. Heinlein
"Get off your dead #### and on your dying feet." Mom
Geez, have you priced custom limestone sills ?
Doing so may help understand why they aren't recommended here.
The lead times for them is hellish. months and months.
Plus, who knows what you will find when you attempt to rip out the old sills. Each one could be a little different, making a limestone sill install a complete nightmare.
If I was considering stone sills, I would cast them myself in my own forms out of concrete. You wouldn't be able to tell the difference between limestone and cast.
Personally, for such a small sill I would use a wood or probably PVC as I mentioned before.
carpenter in transition
Marc,I second what Andy Engel said about running the new sills an inch past the wall with a drip kerf. This is one reason not to epoxy the old ones, they need that overhang!You could also use soapstone and work it yourself with carbide woodworking tools. It is very waterproof, and sure as heck will never rot.Bill
i'd go with mahogany , west system epoxy all ends and dado 's . balance( two coats primer , two coats paint)all sides , install with 3m marine epoxy to secure to legs of existing window, and to the brick surround. fill in the voids with big stretch caulk . and the your showspace is on it's way. slainte'.." As the spirit wanes, the form appears."
Bryan, I think your advice is good.
But, regarding the stye, the house is reportedly 1830s. The U.S. had gained its independence more than a half-century previously; so, definitely not "colonial." Not Colonial Revival, either; too early for that.
The house appears to me a five-bay, gable-sided, center-entrance Federal-style house. 1830 is on the late side for Federal architecture, but even here in Western New York state, there are many 1830s examples, and I would expect more so in Ohio, as styles tended to travel east to west.
I've also heard the "form" (not the style) referred to as an "I-house": center entrance, symmetrical layout, two rooms deep. That's not a term I've embraced, however.
Allen