Hi,
Just in case there are other Marks in this forum, I am new to this message board and forum and am hoping someone (or many of you) can give me some help with a somewhat overwhelming situation I am currently facing. I apologize in advance for this very long-winded message, but I have a long list of issues and circumstances are pushing me to try and get as much information as possible in a short period of time. I am a homeowner in the Mid-Atlantic (Washington, DC area) and am in the process of deciding on how to have my roof/gutters/downspouts/aluminum siding replaced and by whom. My house was the victim of a hail storm and now contractors chasing the storm have descended on my neighborhood with offers to do all the work and more at good prices. However, each contractor (as well as outside contractors that I have talked to) say something different about what “needs” to be done and what “should” be used to do it. Generally, I have accepted that this is a good opportunity to have some additional items done to my house as upgrades and improvement. But, my problem is how to educate myself on what is best and what is a waste of time and money. I have accepted that vinyl siding is probably the best choice under the circumstances for a reduced maintenance exterior and am considering having the rake boards, fascia, windows, door ways, and soffits wrapped as well with the addition of 1) a layer of insulation board added between the vinyl siding and the exterior walls, 2) a 3D roof upgrade in place of a standard 25 year roof, and 3) a ridge vent added where none was before (we currently have end vents with an attic fan to vent the attic space). So, I have a number of questions that I hope people can shed some light on so that I do not do something I shouldn’t to my house.
Issue One:
Siding. Who makes the best siding and what grade should I use? A number of contractors recommended Alcoa Liberty Elite (.048″ thickness) over other names. Is .048″ that much better than .046″ or .044″, or .042″?
Issue Two:
Insulation. One contractor told me that I need something between the sheathing and the new vinyl so that the vinyl will not deteriorate at the nail points from the friction caused when the vinyl expands and contracts and rubs against the sheathing. He recommended the insulation as a good barrier for this purpose with the added benefit of creating a relatively flat surface for the vinyl and adding insulation R value to the house. He also recommended Amocor P38 (3/8″) insulation board for this. Another contractor told me that the increased insulation value would be marginal in the grand scheme of things, but the sound dampening effect would be worth it, this contractor also told me that if we did not want the insulation board he would just hang the vinyl siding right on the existing sheathing. Other contractors just demonstrated a 1/4″ insulation board (P14 rating) and said that should do. What is the best choice and do I need something between the sheathing and the vinyl siding at all? Will not putting anything between the vinyl siding and sheathing cause the siding to deteriorate before its time or cause other problems?
Issue Three:
Sealants. One contractor told me that OSI Quad rubber sealant is the best and the only sealant he will use for the job. It this the best? Can anyone recommend a comparable products and should I really be concerned with this?
Issue Four:
Ridge venting. Should I add ridge venting? My home currently does not have ridge venting. The existing venting is through vents at the ends of the attic spaces and thermostat controlled attic fans. One contractor told me that he would put ridge venting in since it should improve the venting of hot air. Another contractor told me that it wouldn’t do much good since my house does not have intake vents in the soffits so the ridge venting would not do more than look good on the roof. Still another contractor told me that I would need to add soffit vents as well as a type of insert in the attic along the roof sheathing to maintain an open flow of air from the soffit vents to the ridge vents. Yet another contractor told me that the passive venting of a ridge vent system would not even work as well as the active venting of my attic fans and I would need to close off the louver vents at the ends of the attic to get the full advantage of any ridge vent system. After all this input, I do not know what to do about adding ridge vents.
And if I do want ridge venting, what is the best or recommended type? I have been told that I should use an aluminum ridge vent since it will maintain a straight edge on the roof ridge over time while a plastic material will warp or contort over time due to exposure and heat. Given all the hail storm repairs and replacements of roofs in the neighborhood, I spoke with some neighbors and some are getting straight plastic ridge vents (about 3 ft sections) while others are getting a material that is rolled out as a ridge vent (they showed me a box that said Lomanco Omniroll OR-20). None of the neighbors really seemed to care what it was made of. Does it really matter?
Issue Five:
Gutters and downspouts. I have been trying to get a clear picture of what is worth my money. Since I am considering strongly using the Alcoa siding I looked at the Alcoa web site and saw that the thickness of the aluminum material various. Since I live in the Washington, DC area and do not consider my area to be an exceptionally wet area as far as rain is concerned, does it matter that much if my gutters are .032″ nominal thickness or .027″ good enough?
Issue Six:
Roof. I have already concluded that a replacement roof is probably warranted since mine is already 15 years old and it was rated as a 20 year roof (builder’s grade). The recommended replacement roof by most of the contractors is a 25 year three tab fiberglass roofing shingle made by CertainTeed. I am considering whether or not I should have a new roof put on top of the old roof or get the old one removed first. The existing roof doesn’t seem to have any problems now and it is the only roof on the house. Does it make a difference if I put the new roof on the old one?
I am also considering an upgrade to a 3D (or some call it an architectural shingle). Does this impact upon any consideration as to putting a new roof over the old roof? As for materials, a number of contractors are using 3D roofs made by GAF, but one contractor said Owens Corning is just as good and I should choose based on the look I like. Another contractor showed me 3D from CertainTeed as well — all three are 30 year rated. Is their any difference in quality or are they all basically the same? Does anyone have any opinions on whether or not 3D roofs are worth the investment or not? I am somewhat on the fence on 3D roof since I look at it as adding 5 years to the roof (maybe?) and curb appeal, but the cost seems somewhat steep – I have been quoted anywhere from $750 to $1,200 depending on the total other items I will have the contractors do at the same time. The totals for the entire project are somewhat in line if I add all items I have been discussing with the contractors. Its how they get to the total that is different. Funny how that happens.
Issue Seven:
Trim wrapping. I am considering adding the trim wrapping to the project (fascia, soffit, rake board, and window/door trim). Does it make sense to wrap all these items or are some more important than others? I will probably have to have any wood trim painted in the next year or two since I am noticing some pealing of paint in weather exposed areas already. Also, I have been told that the fascia, rake boards, window/door trim are wrapped in aluminum while the soffit is done in vinyl (with soffit vent inserts where needed). Is this true and does it make a difference?
In summery, given the above I hope you understand how confused I am with all this. I didn’t anticipate this project anytime in the near future so this is a lot for me to absorb at once. I hope anyone reading this posting will appreciate my situation and give me a little advice on what they would recommend even if its only with one of my issues. I am hoping to balance cost while not necessarily sacrificing quality and in the end not doing anything that would cause more bad than good. I am also hoping that out of the above information I have received from contractors wanting to do the job, I will be able to determine which one will do the best job. Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give.
Replies
I noticed that my message was cut short so here is the rest of it.
Issue Seven:
Trim wrapping. I am considering adding the trim wrapping to the project (fascia, soffit, rake board, and window/door trim). Does it make sense to wrap all these items or are some more important than others? I will probably have to have any wood trim painted in the next year or two since I am noticing some pealing of paint in weather exposed areas already. Also, I have been told that the fascia, rake boards, window/door trim are wrapped in aluminum while the soffit is done in vinyl (with soffit vent inserts where needed). Is this true and does it make a difference?
In summery, given the above I hope you understand how confused I am with all this. I didn't anticipate this project anytime in the near future so this is a lot for me to absorb at once. I hope anyone reading this posting will appreciate my situation and give me a little advice on what they would recommend even if its only with one of my issues. I am hoping to balance cost while not necessarily sacrificing quality and in the end not doing anything that would cause more bad than good. I am also hoping that out of the above information I have received from contractors wanting to do the job, I will be able to determine which one will do the best job. Anyway, thanks in advance for any advice anyone can give. Thanks.
Rather than attempt to respond to all of your individual concerns I think it might be best if I keep it brief. Although I can certainly sympathize with your dilema, I do not believe you will be any better off getting your questions answered in this forum. I`m willing to bet you receive just as many contradicting opinions here as you already have with your one on one attempts with the various contractors you`ve dealt with.
My suggestion is that you continue your interviews with perspective contractors. Find one that is local. Stay clear of those moving in to take advantage of the sudden demand for thier services. Make certain contractor has plenty of experience with your specific projects. You dont want a kitchen installer siding your home. Get several referals. Find someone you feel comfortable working with. Do not allow cost to be the determining factor. You no more want the least expensive bid than the most expensive bid.
Best of luck to you. J. D. Reynolds
Home Improvements
"DO IT RIGHT, DO IT ONCE"
JD is more than right to advise you to stick with long time local contractors who are more likely to be there next year and stay away from the "hail hounds"
I'll try to briefly add a little in reply to your many queries based on over thirty years in the trades with over half that in roofing specialty. Some of that time in the panhandle of Texas - prime hail country where the average roof only lasts about 6-7 years and the insurance adjusters keep busy..
Issue One:
siding thickness may have less to do with it than the profiles chosen by the manufacturer to add stability to the finished product.
Issue Two:
Insulation boards add only marginal insulation value to a home. You do need tarpaper over the sheathing though or you will regret it. None of those you mentioned plan this. I would still use the foam board too.
Issue Three:
Sealants. There's plenty of good ones. This contractor is just stating that he has found one of them and is confident enough to not want to change.
Issue Four:
Ridge venting. Do it. But don't spend too much time worrying about which and how. I'd focus on what looks best on your house.
Issue Five:
Gutters and downspouts. Go with the heavy ga. Alcoa seamless. So much of the cost is in the labor, regardless of how flimsy the product is.
Issue Six:
Roof. I've always been partial to GAF but I like my women on the heavy side with long black hair. All these you mentioned put out a decent product. I would definitely go for the architectural grade. Longer lasting and apperance upgrade to boot. Who can argue with that? She's good looking and laughs at my jokes too! Tear off? Now here's where you are likely to find some controversy. Some guys say never. Some do almost always. I do when it's appropriate. Your roof is not one that I would recommend for it. Especially with the laminated shingles. It would probably void the warrantee from the manufacturer to apply over old. If budget is a killer for you go with the regular 15-20 year shingle and lay over the old if it is sound and not curling up and the flashings are all sound. I'd be looking carefully at whether they got beat up in the hail.
Issue Seven:
What was that? cladding over the trim? Personnally no - you lose too many trim details but if you don't have many anyhow and don't want to paint then do it. They're right that it gets made up from aluminum.
Now if it were me, I'd be looking around to see whether you might need a new deck and upgrade you to wood clapboard, maybe red cedar. Wouldn't your neighbors swoon with jealousy...Quick trip to the bank for refinancing and we'll have this place ready for....
Excellence is its own reward!
Edited 6/23/2002 12:58:18 AM ET by piffin
Thanks for the info. I like the idea of the new deck, but would add that a hot tub on the deck (with proper reinforcements and support) might be a worthwhile upgrade as well. Why have a deck if you can't enjoy it?
As for my issues, you basically confirmed some of my own thoughts. My real concern is that most of the homeowners I have spoken with have no idea who to use or who is good since my neighborhood is only 15 years old and siding/roofing work hasn't been an issue until now. My neighbors seem to be inclined to choose a contractor based on the salesmanship of the contractor's representatives while I am looking more at what they recommend as a basis for judging my trust in their ability to do a good and fair job. Each of the contractors provide references, but of course the references always turn out OK. The finished products that I have seen all look fine, but I am concerned that the method and quality of installation will not stand up over time.
As for some of my issues, I agree with you and I will probably go with the heavier materials in general as they seem intuitively better and the increased costs seem marginal (siding and gutters). Adding insulation board seems reasonable, especially if it will help insure a proper installation and wear of the finished product. Also, it is something I will probably never get a chance to do on this house again given the life expectancy of the siding and cost of replacement. But, I am still left with the question of whether or not 3/8" is better than 1/4" insulation foam. Should I make it an issue with my contractor and will the extra 1/8" be significant enough to cause problems with the depth perception between my window/window trim and the exterior walls of the house? By the way, my house appears to have a tarboard material as sheathing instead of plywood or other wood sheathing. Should I be concerned about this and does this need something over it before the siding is applied (i.e. tarpaper)?
Also, I agree with your roof assessment. The laminated roof we are considering really looks good on a neighbor's house and I think it will have good appeal on ours. Our house actually has large sections of roof visible from the front so people will get a good view of it whenever they see our house. But, I am blind on how to judge ridge venting. I assumed that each of the available types looks the same from the street, but the real issue is will one type of ridge vent maintain its appearance over time. Intuitively the aluminum sounds better than plastic (or the Omniroll stuff) if I want something that will last the full 30+ years of the roof, but is it?
Other than these points, I think I am ready to sit down with one of the contractors and see if we can work out these details (materials, installation, costs) and hopefully get the job going.
–Mark
Personally, I tend to be the type of contractor who has the patience to satisfy discerning customers such as yourself - but I cost more than most.
1/4" insulation foam. Should I make it an issue with my contractor and will" the extra 1/8" be significant enough to cause problems"
It seems that maybe you are a little too discerning on insignificant details. Make an issue of it with someone you otherwise intuit is a good contractor and he'll leave you waiting.
Excellence is its own reward!