I have an old (1954) wood siding cape cod that desperately needs replacement windows. I’m strongly leaning towards a vinyl window (decent) but what concerns me is the way the ‘trim guy’ is going to finish them off… with aluminum siding casings. Yeah, I won’t have to paint them and they’ll keep the water out (i hope) but I’m afraid my house will look cheap, like a trailer. I’m attaching a photo of my current ‘out of plum’ windows. Yeah, I know.. shutters could use replacing too.
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Your picture never showed up. Lets see and maybe this forum will give you some ideas.
let me try again. it's a jpg photo. maybe it needs to be something else. ???
Normally, when I'm installing vinyl replacement windows, I also wrap the exterior trim in aluminum. It certainly is not necessary unless your trim is in bad shape and /or you no longer want to paint them.
In your case, you could leave the aluminum off and simply repaint the casings, if that's what you prefer; however, I would opt for the aluminum. I like the vinyl coated aluminum...it has a wood grain look to it, and is slightly stiffer and less prone to wrinkles like the lighter guage coil stock.
Really, there isn't much trim area to wrap on your windows. The aluminum should not give your windows a bulky look. My advice is:
1. Go ahead and have your contractor friend install new vinyl replacement windows...these type of windows have come a long way both in appearances and performances...there are many types that you can now choose from and they work very well.
2. Don't have the contractor saw kerf your existing trim for the trim man. It's really not always necessary, and it would be better to let the trim man himself decide whether or not to cut in the kerfs.
3. You should have 2 prices quoted to you...one for window installation only....and the other for trim only. This may help you decide whether you want to go or forgo with the alum. trim.
4. If at all possible...have at least one window unit wrapped in the coil stock. If you like the look, then proceed with the rest. If you don't like the look, have it removed and simply retain the look you have now. Of course you will be out the expense associated with trimming that one window, but it really is fairly inexpensive.
You expressed concern about will the wrap waterproof your trim? The answer is , "Yes"....so long as the trim guy knows his trade. A bad trim job that depends mostly on caulking to hide bad cuts, and large gaps won't keep your trim waterproof for very long; perhaps just a few years. But honestly...most guys that I know who regularly work with this stuff, do know all the tricks, and do a slick looking, professional job.
If it was my house, I'd wrap em!
Davo
I see no reason why not to use al on the trim. Like you said, you won't have to paint it. Most Capes have 1x stock for the trim. Simple and easy, but that's what looks good, nothing wrong with that. Just wrap, you won't be able to tell from more the 30' that it's not wood, assuming a good installation.
How do they (trim guys) wrap in alum so it's water tight. I'm becoming very conscious about water tightness. And air tightness (hence the replacement windows). Attic insulation next, or weatherize crawlspace first... ugh... two not-so-fun jobs.
Aluminum capping of old wood window frames is not waterproof nor does it need to be. Yes, it will shed most of the water but some will get behind it regardless of how the joints are handled. Caulk will only last so long and gaps, small (if the worker is good) or large (if he is not) are inevitable. Let's remember what we are covering though. The old wood window frame. This frame has already been waterproofed a long time ago in relation to the wall of the house. It is designed to get wet (it's been getting wet for all the years it has been there). Our trim is cosmetic. Replacement windows along with aluminum capping provide both a cosmetic enhancement to the house and a performance increase from the old window panes. However neither take part in waterproofing the house. That was done a long time ago.
Richie
> This frame has already been waterproofed a long time ago in relation to the wall of the house. It is designed to get wet (it's been getting wet for all the years it has been there).
Wood windows aren't so much designed to get wet as they're protected from it by regular maintenance and painting -- or not as the case may be. Which is why people might want to cover them with aluminum or something.
Given that water will get behind the aluminum, there's a problem. A small amount of water that's trapped and keeping the wood wet for a long time will do more damage than a large amount that runs off and evaporates. Continuous uniform moisture is just what dry rot fungi and termites need to live long and prosper.
-- J.S.
Double dittos on that John. Bad aluminum capping and flashing jobs create billions of dollars in repair work.
Maybe more. Proper flashing details are easily the single best value in construction. But the most overlooked in my experience.Tom
Absolutley...couldn't agree more. Poor flashing jobs do lead to millions of dollars in repair evenue. However, capping is not flashing and should not be confused as such. I am not saying leave gaping spaces where water can go streaming in keeping the wood perpetually wet. What I am saying is that water will get behind the aluminum at some point but as long as it can drain, the house framing will not be damaged because the old window unit is relied upon to provide the necessary flashing. Even instructional videos show joints such as where the vertical capping of the side casings simply butts, albeit tightly, to the sill cap. Caulk is then relied on to stop all water. Well, it may last a long time but caulk will wear down. How many homeowners honestly maintain the integrity of the caulk joints? Remember, these exterior products are sold as no maintenance. I even acknowledge that although I bend part of the sill capping up the side and front of the casing and follow by overlapping that with the side pieces and then caulking that some water probably will find its way back there at some point. There is ,however, enough room for it to drain out and dry. I am not trying to promote poor workmanship with the arguement that water doesn't matter. All I am saying is don't believe capping will keep all water out and it doesn't have to. That's what flashing is for.
RichieJust thought of an example.... Let's say you are residing with vinyl and replacing the windows. I don't use j-channel around windows...too cheesy. The window is installed from the outside preserving all molding inside. The foam underlayment usually ends up flush with the old casing. I bend my capping with integral j-channel. At the head, The capping is sitting on top of the foam. We all know water gets behind vinyl. This water can run behind the capping. However, because the capping is not caulked to the replacement window but rather is pressure fit to the front of the replacement window, any moisture can drain out over the face of the window. I am always open to new ways of doing things so if anyone does it differently, let me know.
Edited 9/28/2002 1:29:09 AM ET by RICHIE921
Edited 9/28/2002 2:23:41 AM ET by RICHIE921
I should have mentioned... my contractor friend said he'd run a circular saw around the trim to give the guy wrapping somewhere to tuck the alum., then caulk. does this sound like a good plan?
You don't have to put any trim (aluminum or otherwise) around the window. Looks to be in good shape already. Unless you are thinking of going with a maintenance free exterior. Then I would recommend doing your window wrapping. From your photo you have double hung windows. The only trim that is removed is on the inside (blindstops) and new ones are installed or you can use quarteround. Then insulate and seal inside and out. Make sure your sill extender is fastened securely. Sounds like alot of work to do it the other way. Best wishes.
I too wonder why you are putting aluminum trim around the exterior of the woindows. A good replacement window http://www.vinylwindows-usa-east.com will allow you to replace the sash with a 1/2" allowance to trim the new window to fit the out of square opening. Unless you are going to put aluminum siding on the whole house, you are going to have to do some exterior painting.
Thanks all. We start next Friday. I'll post finsihed photos if I can manage it. Then comes the painting. And siding replacement. And flashing. And... :)
Hate to be a stick in the mud but most "replacement windows" IMHO are dead ugly anyway with wide vinyl exteriors but if you you need to be $ conscious fine....but..why not go at least with some kind of trim that gets away from aluminum. after all its the front of your home. Hey, I spent the first four or so years as a tin man..I banged up more "aluminum" then you can imagine. (I'm 51) Been doing reno work almost 30 years now. Think this through and go to a good show room to see all the possibilties before you let your "siding friend" sell you on a narrow minded idea. Do some research. Visit your lumber yards and siding supply yards. Theres sooooo much new stuff out there now so don't jump the gun. Aluminum has its place but......and then theres vinyl coated aluminum etc etc etc...composite.etc etc//ya know...go easy.
Be well
Namaste'
andyIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, I used to agree with you. I could stand down the street and tell which houses had replacement windows. Check out http://www.vinylwindows-usa-east.com , if you are on the east coast I would be happy to bring one by. Guy
GC....I'm in cold Spring Harbor LI, NYIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Andy, I will be in your area by the end of August.. .I will e-mail you first and plan on stopping by. Guy
niceIt's not who's right, it's who's left ~ http://CLIFFORDRENOVATIONS.COM
Finished Windows - I thought I'd post a picture of the wrapped windows. They make a huge difference in reducing the amount of traffic noise we hear. I haven't really noticed any elec. bill savings. :( I think they look pretty good from the outside. Makes me realize how badly I need to paint the house now.