Can anyone tell me how to shut off power at the meter so I can replace this tiny electrical panel with a real one including a master shut off at the panel. Is it hard? The wiring of the panel I know how to do, but I have never worked on a panel without a shut off at the panel.
Also, does anyone recognise this brand of panel / breakers so that I can buy a panel that fits them. (being cheap I want to reuse the old breakers if I can)
thanks for the help.
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Replies
look Cutler Hammer..
cut the seal on the meter and pull it...
BUT WAIT....
this is a job fer somebody that's done this before...
time to call in a pro and let them handle it...
good chance that you are out of yur league here...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming
WOW!!! What a Ride!
Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
That's a subpanel. You should have a disconnect if not another panel before you get to the meter. I'd take Imercs advice and hire someone you can sue. Not a buddy, not another guy that thinks he can do it. You want someone with insurance and experiance. I mean after all you don't want to burn up in your sleep do you?
Not trying to embarrass you here but you have two things going against you. No knowledge and your cheap. That's not good when your doing electric.
Wake me up before you go-go.
He posted a question about this box in another thread. When I replied I was thinking that it was a sub-panel also.But others read it as being the main panel. And after re-reading the bmessage that is certainly possible.http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=tp-breaktime&msg=73396.1&search=yBut he inability to describe in detail what he has and the last of response in the other thread raise a serious doubt of and DIY work on this.
Edited 5/13/2006 2:50 pm by BillHartmann
Thanks Bill. I don't read a lot of electrical threads so I missed that one.
Wake me up before you go-go.
Also he says that it is a "cabin", but I have no idea where.If that is the main panel then there are verey likely other issues with the power drop that needs fixing also.
If it's like most cabins I've been around it might have been built on the weekends by the original owner and all his hunting buddies. Since it's not a primary residence it's done as cheap as possible. Not much code enforcement apparantly.
Wake me up before you go-go.
I just bought the place. It is a bit of a journey to get there and I never noticed the "no main breaker" issue. I can't check it out until I am there, but I want to bring all the materials with me to do the job on my next visit, and not half finish it and be without power. (my wife will kill me)
I am hoping there is a main breaker further down the line, then it won't be a big deal. I am cheap, no doubt, but alos willing to pay for good materials where they pay off. I was hoping to identify the brand (model?) or whatever so that when i buy a panel, hopefully I can reuse the existing breakers.
However, I am not sure what this "code" thing is you guys keep referring to.
Kidding, only kidding.
thanks for all the advice. I'll keep reading and learning.
Oh, i forgot to mention, this is the only panel in the house. It is not a sub panel. That's why i need a new panel, I need a new circuit and you guys convinced me not to mickey-mouse with rigging a new 220 circuit to this.
Where is the meter?And where is the cabin?It is possible that there is disconnect at the meter.Specially if the meter is at the power pole and it is some distance from the house.In that case then there is the issue of of whether that is a sub-panel or it can be treated as the main (for ground/neutral bonding). But unless there is a disconnect on the outside of that building then there needs to be a main disconnect someplace in that building, typically on the panel.There are so many potential issues with that installation that there is no way that anyone can give any hints of a proper upgrade.One the next trip get some pictures of the meter, the drop, and where the cable enters the house.Also what is the size of the cable from the meter to the panel? 3 wire or 4?What is there for ground electrodes? Ground rods? Howmany? What is the water supply connections. And are they grounded/bonded?And you can check the name on the breakers. In the other thread someone ID'd them as FPE. If so they are obsolete and there is a question of their reliability. So I would not plan on reusing them.
Check your meter base and make sure the disconnect isn't on it or under it.
You don't want to reuse those breakers. Spend sixty to a hundred bucks and get a panel that's common and can use interchangable breakers. Like Siemens. The breakers are only a few dollars a piece and very easy to find. I can't recall the name of the panel you have in the picture. But it's not very common. Put the breakers up for sale on Ebay you can probably finance the project with the sale. Used obsolete breakers can fetch a pretty good price. If that's what they are. Regardless they are not worth the hassle of reusing because if you loose on on the weekend you may have to wait until Monday at the earliest to get one. A common breaker you can go to any hardware store even some drug, and grocery stores and pic one up.
Wake me up before you go-go.
There should be a label on the panel cover. If not, pull a breaker and read the name on the side. That will give you the information you need.
Here is a heads up for you.
As others have pointed out, that panel is more commonly used as a subpanel than a main panel. Wire size in your photo looks to be about a #6 AWG. Good for 50 amps.
Depending on what load you are adding, you may not have adequate wire size for your new service!
To reiterate what others have said, you need a pro to at least evaluated what you want to do. You may know how to tie wires to new breakers, neutral and ground busses, but you didn't recognize your service load is limited by the wire size feeding that box.
If you know all this, then my apologies.
Dave
No knowledge and your cheap
Always a deadly combination!
I didnt think that you(not necessarily you)were alowed to open up/take off the meter.
I thought cutting off of the band was a no-no?
Doug
Cutting the seal and removing it is not unknow.Different POCO's have different ways of handling this. But often a call for a reseal is all that is needed.The connections in the box are still consumer maintained connections so there is a legit requirement for acess.But if the POCO find extra wires hangin off the box or the meter is not plugged all the way because of bypass bars in the box then that is a completely different mater.
IMERC suggested that. Here your "supposed" to have the electric company pull it and then re seal it. And then you sign what's called a ten day letter. In effect you promise to have your work inspected within ten days.
The bad thing about that is the inspector can make you bring your whole house up to current code.
If that panels a main then there has to be a disconnect between it and the meter. How else are you gonna shut off the power without pulling the meter? It's either next to the panel, or next to the meter.
Wake me up before you go-go.
If indeed you do need to shut power off at the meter, and there's no disconnect (separate box with a switch/breaker) there, you need to contact you power company and see what the local procedure is.
In some places you're allowed to cut the seal and pull the meter, do the work, reinstall the meter, and then call the power co to install a new seal. In other places that can get you into deep do-do.
That is a Federal Pioneer (FPE) panel with NCO type breakers. It is a subpanel ONLY!!
In Edmonton, here; EPCOR has to come and remove the meter, before you can do the type of changeout that you need to do. You still have to be VERY CAREFUL because the line side lugs in the meter base are still live... and the utility does not fuse each individual drop.
It is best to get a professional to do the service change, because they know how not to get electrocuted, and have WCB to cover them if they do make a mistake. As a homeowner, if you get zapped, you MIGHT be covered by your own insurance, but I highly doubt it!
locolobo
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
i'm cheap too,but around here a electriction will come in with a new100 amp box and breakers,install,deal with the elec co.etc. for 450.00-500.00 it's a bargin. takes them about 1.5 hrs and your done and you have 20 spaces to work with. larry
hand me the chainsaw, i need to trim the casing just a hair.