Replacing dishwasher with a raised floor
Here’s the situation:
– need to replace the dishwasher…old one is leaking all over the place.
– previous buttheads…uh I mean owners, laid down 1/2 inch plywood and a new linoleum floor without also raising the dishwasher and cabinets.
I can’t get the old dishwashwer out. I was thinking I could cut the front feet off with a reciprocating saw, pull it out, and then cut the back feet; then I would disconnect the plumbing lines.
How would I get the new one in WITHOUT taking the counter top off?
My kitchen needs to be remodeled but I don’t have the funds to do so. Therefore, I would rather not destroy the existing countertop. It’s a laminate L-shaped countertop.
One thought was to measure the height between the countertop and the finished floor. I would then look for a dishwasher that would fit. I wasn’t sure if that was even an option. Also, it would really suck if I had to limit my choices of dishwashers based on that restriction.
Thanks in advance for any help you can provide.
Replies
Guess what I was doing about two months ago? Chipping out tile in front of my old dishwasher and then reinstalling tile after the new one was installed. There is little you can do to altogether avoid this sort of situation other than removing all flooring down to the subfloor so that there are no built up layers of finishes. We ended up with a Miele, which is said to be one of the lowest clearance installations.
To take another tact - have you considered simply temporarily removing the countertop? That maybe the easiest solution.
You have the right idea. Hopefully you can disconnect the water and power first. Then cut the front legs off and after you can slide it forward to have the dishwasher face clear of the countertop you should have plenty of play to lift the back legs up.
Just make sure the new one is for the RO you have.
I'm surprised that 1/2" ply and sheet vinyl are creating enough of a height issue to prevent the dishwasher from coming out. Have you tried turning the feet all the way up and then tipping the dishwasher forward? The back of the unit is usually a few inches lower than the front (plus there's the insulation blanket that has some "give" to it), which would allow you to work the unit out once you muscle the front past the countertop.
I had a similar situation recently, and even with 1/2 cement board and ceramic tile I was able to get the old DW out and the new one in with a minimal effort.
Bob
I tried to see if I could "lower" the feet. I couldn't get access to it. Such a royal pain. I bet you there is enough clearance for a new one to go in if the feet are screwed all the way in. I really hate when simple tasks are made so much more complicated because someone didn't think of the future.
If you can't get access to the feet you're probably not doing it right -- the front ones should be designed to be adjusted with the unit in place (and in some units the rear ones will also be adjustable from the front, via a remote shaft or lever scheme).
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
I just did this two weeks ago. Same problem, tile on a thick sub floor. I cut out the old one the pulled a few screws from the counter top and slid in the new unit.
Good luck.
Maybe I'm asking the obvious but have you removed the toeboard/kickboard. They are almost always removable and then the adjustable feet are exposed. I have seen ones that seemed locked on until I found the right way to slide/ loosen them and then I could adjust the feet. There is probably a webste like the dryer maintenance site which could help with the removal.
Hope this helps, JVH
No I haven't removed the kickboard...didn't realize that's what it was. It does have 2 screws on the front base so I'll try that.
Yeah, first crank the front feet all the way up. (Well, before that, disconnect water/power and remove the screws under the top front edge.) If you can then slide it forward, do that until you can reach the rear feet.
You might also see if you can loosen the countertop (screws through the top braces of the cabinets) and pry it up 1/2" or so with wedges. You should be able to manage 1/4" or so even if there's an adjacent sink and you don't disconnect it. Or disconnect the sink's drain and you should be fairly free.
If the ceiling below is unfinished it might be possible to hole-saw holes for the feet and remove them entirely. Then install the new unit without feet and install them after it's in place. (Then patch the floor from below, of course.)
happy?
Same thing happened to me two months ago probably 15 layers of old linoleum in the way loosened the screws from dishwasher to the countertop cut the feet off the bottom of the dishwasher drove homemade shims between the cabinets and the countertops 3/4 to nothing over 6" and ripped the POS out of the hole. Have fun I sure did.
If you have not purchased the unit yet, Asko - and perhapos other European brands - are smaller sized.
But then they are usually carrying oversized price tags
Welcome to the
Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
where ...
Excellence is its own reward!
Ive been there several times with different results and options.
One thing is you have a rolled formica top?
You do you can cut those loose and raise it up unless you have back spash holding it down.
As mentioned , push it all the way against the wall and tilt it forward to clear the front casing. Whats behind that is insulation. If you can clear the front casing its comming out. new one can go in the same way.
Sounds like youre gonna have to cut the support feet on the old one but call for measurements on new ones first. Of course if its gone it might as well be taken out anyway . You dont have anything to lose there .
As a last resort ;
If you have a wood floor you can cut holes around the feet supports and it will drop and come forward through the opening . The new one goes in the same way and is raised and propped until you go inder the floor and secure it back. Aint no one but you will know it . Cut another piece of plywood two inches bigger to cover the cut out piece thats going back and presto , youre back in busines. If you get on a two by then its a little more work but doable with out cutting it .
Tim
If you can unfasten the top, do so all the way. Don't put strain on the "L" shaped top it could crack out of the corner easily. Best of luck.
A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
Quittin' Time
no way 1/2" ply and one layer of sheet goods is trapping your DW in.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Could be, if the original cabinets were set as low as possible, at the request of the (short) original owner.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
how do U set cab's lower than on the floor?
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
how do U set cab's lower than on the floor?
You dont , thats the problem. Dishwasher held up all those years while the floor kept getting added to.
Im amazed that hardly anyone thinks about it until the DW goes out. Or the floor guys dont mention it either.
Ive been out on several for folks and I see it in the ones I buy too. Its wild . First it had linoleom lets say and the cabinets are sitting on that right ? Then they come home with pergo and that gets trashed. So lets put down some 3/4 finshed hardwood and raisde the shoe mold , simple fix. Somebody doesnt clean up the dog pee and they hire a floor installer to put in ceramic tile on ditra over the whole mess.
Normally though its just ceramic tile or 3/4 hardwood over the original that hangs them up becuse no one thought to pull the dishwasher before they laid the new floor. Just butt that baby up there to it and rock and roll.
Tim
"How do U set cab's lower than on the floor?You dont , thats the problem. Dishwasher held up all those years while the floor kept getting added to. "----------I think that's definitely what happened. There is a good 3/4" difference between the kitchen floor and the adjoining but lower dining room floor. What I think happened is that the linoleum down now is the second floor put in since the cabinets went in. It looks like a "newer" plywood base was place under the dishwasher when the first "new" floor was put in. Then it looks like another sheet of ply was put in but not under the dishwasher for the second floor renovation. Heck, I tore up a section of the linoleum in the foyer. There are 2 more layers of linoleum (1 on top of the other), then a plywood base, then what looks to be either a bed of mortar or some sort of grout for ceramic tile. I removed the carpet in the adjoining living room and refinished the hardwood floor. There's at least a 1/2" difference between the living room and foyer floor levels. I think this house has more layers than an onion.
for kicks ...
now that we got more than one layer going on ...
what's the measurement ... from the top of the finish floor to the underside of the counter top ... take three measurements ... both sides of the DW opening and one in the middle.
be exact ... nearest 8th if possible.
we'll get that DW outta there sooner or later!
and get some masonite ...
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Build them shorter or cut them off.
If ignorance is bliss why aren't more people
happy?
I thought that at first too, then I remembered a kitchen I did a couple of years ago........six layers of flooring. All 12x12's laid right on top of each other, didnt even stagger the seams.
The floor thats giving him problems could just be "the last straw".
I do occasional work for a fire/water company (insurance type work), their guys always just goes over whatever is left on the floor.
remember .. he said one layer of 1/2 ply and a layer of lino.
six layers ... sure ... but that's not how this one reads. Plus ... he claims he can't get to the levelers ... so I'm sure an easy solution is being missed here.
not sure if a CT is mentioned ... if it is regular old PLam ... just unscrew from below and shim up if need be ... but I'd bet that isn't necessary.
Jeff Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
Nawh, said he cant get to the levelers to screw them in . Dont sound right but thats what he said.
Tim
PICS! We need pics!
Alright i'm with ya. Actually had that happen in my own kitchen. Before I started doing this type of work, someone else did my kitchen and "dropped" my dishwasher into a hole (didnt continue the subfloor). When I replaced it this year it wasnt too bad getting out, I think I just cranked the feet up and eased it out.
Hey, if the machine is shot, just disconnect electrical and plumbing and whip out the sawsall. That thing will just fall out.
I did the ol finger gauge test and it's less than the height of one knuckle. The problem is that there so little clearance at the top, that I can't slide it out without scraping either the counter or the floor.It would slide out if there was a way to lift the entire unit up parallel to the floor and "float" it out.
It would slide out if there was a way to lift the entire unit up parallel to the floor and "float" it out.
find the levelers ... lower it all the way.
slip in a coupla rips of 1/4" masonite under said feet ...
levitate ...
and slide it out.
all ya need are 2 strips ... 12" wide is handy ... thinner will work ...
and about 3 or so ft long.
it'll work.
and don't worry about scrapping the underside of the counter top!
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
I had this situation before....twice. In one situation the floor was raised so high, almost an inch. There was only one way it was coming out.....sawzall'd the thing to death and I mean to death. The thing went out in PIECES man. How did I get a new one in? I didnt'.
Second situation....tile countertop....bad news. Had to put a stick under the counter lip, sledgehammer it (it was longer than the countertop to the floor) to force the countertop to raise, cracked the mortar joints along the back wall, but oh well, isn't that what they make caulk for?
Removing/installing dishwasher with raised floor
I have very basic "plastic over cultered wood" countertop (I would be reluctant to try this with a "stone" one).
Cut two posts 34 1/2 '' long from meal conduit pipe (measure as needed!)
Disconnected dishwasher from the countertop
Using hydraulic jack and wooden post raised the countertop jently to allow the pipe-post insert between the floor and the countertop on the left of the dishwasher and released the jack
Repeated same to the right of the dishwasher.
Now I have about 3/8'' gap between the dishwasher top and the countertop sitting temporarily on the pipe-posts. The cock between the countertop and the "back" wall was not affected. Same can be done with a regular car jack. Hydraulc jack (that is more convenient) simply hapened to be in my household. When new dishwasher will be istalled I will remove the posts allowing the countertop returning to its original state (probably will ad some cock between countertop and cabinet panels as needed).
First check how much you can adjust the feet on both old and new units. Generally the units have an inch or so adjustment range, so they may slide out/in with the feet all the way withdrawn.
Consider slipping in a piece of 1/2" ply while the old unit is out (if the adjustments work), to make future service/replacement a hair easier.
Here's how I got my dishwasher out.
This thread is very old but in case someone come along and wants to know what I did to deal with this (that worked), here it is:
My 2nd hand house had hardwoods installed in the kitchen, but not under the dishwasher. I think the ‘new’ dishwasher that was there when we bought the house was just shoved in there. Six years later it leaked. And surprise!! No flooring under the washer. Oh, and as someone above mentioned, water pooled in the lower area before we saw it, but we caught in within 10-15 minutes.
Disconnected power and water from the dishwasher. I bought some wooden door shims and a couple of 3/4" hardwood flooring samples (can be found for free but I paid $0.25/each for them at a hardware store). These were the same thickness of the existing flooring. I also bought a piece of aluminum roof flashing that I cut in half to make two strips. I used the shims to raise one side of the dishwasher bottom and fully retracted the foot. Then I was able to wedge one of the hardwood floor samples under the foot to bring it level to the floor. There was still a tiny gap so I used a piece of the thin roof flashing to create ramps from the sample wood up to the hardwood, to keep from chipping the flooring. These were taped to the existing flooring with painters tape just to keep them from moving. I lubed the ramps with wood polish. Retracted the back foot so it wouldn’t get caught half way out. Did the same for the other side, but in order to get that side raised I had to tilt the dishwasher forward a bit . Once it was done. The dishwasher slid out, slightly tilt. Once you clear the door frame on most dishwashers, there’s a lot more room at the top of the tub.
Now I think I’ll have to make some ¾” thick wooden rails to go all he way back on both sides so this doesn’t happen again. It leaves me with 33.5 “ from floor to granite free. I’ve found a Whirlpool that claims its minimum clearance is 33.5”. I hope it fits.
Wait.
Just wait 10 years and the thing will rust away to nothing.,
Don't know if anyone is still tuned into this thread. I hope you all found solutions. I have this exact problem The difficulty is raising the DW enough to screw in the feet. I can't quite picture what you do with the shim. Are you turning on it's side to be high enough to raise the DW?
To lift enough to screw in the feet......
Take a Wonderbar and pry up near the foot while turning the foot with channellocks. Might need to shim (fulcrum) under the Wonderbar. Might want to unscre the top brackets first.
This assumes it’ll come out the opening.
If it doesn’t have clearance, we’ve sawed off the feet........
What kind of countertop?