I have been told today that my 7 year old well water tank (WellXTrol 203)
has a leaky bladder and needs to be replaced. Looking at it, it looks like a pretty straight forward job so I am considering doing it myself but I do have some questions.
– Do I need a new tee setup for the tank or do I just use the old one? It is only 7 years old. I’m assuming that I will have to disconnect the pressure switch and gauge from the tee in order to get it off of the tank.
– I’m not happy that the tank only lasted 7 years but I don’t know how long a tank should last. Are there particular manufacturers I should be looking at for quality replacement tanks?
-Once the tank is replaced, what is the process for setting the cut in and cut off and the pressure in the tank?
Thanks,
George
Replies
You should be able to hook it up and go. The tanks come precharged so you usually don't need to mess with the pressure. I have had good luck with this same brand.
If you don't know what you are doing, don't mess with the valve stem pressure thingy that is either on the side or top of the blue tank. The little grey box is what controls the high/low pressure.
If you have room, put a union between the tank and the rest of your fittings and it will make everything easier next time.
There should have been a union right in front of that tank anyway.Is that a dielectric union on the well side of the tank ? Or is it a check valve ? There should have been a union there anyway, check valve or not, and one on the house side as well.Any good DIY would have done all 3. ;o)I think sometimes plumbers do things this way to keep a few more dollars in their own pocket. Sometimes they do it this way to make it more difficult to fix when it needs fixed in the future. (More likely they or another plumber will get a call...) And sometimes they actually put the unions in, and make life easier for everyone ever involved...
Only slightly faster than the speed of stupid, since 1957.
In the North East, unions are rarely installed, which would make things a lot simpler down the road. They're about $5 apiece, and don't take but a few minutes to install. One of those things you just shake your head over. (But it's always been done this way!)
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
"I think sometimes plumbers do things this way to keep a few more dollars in their own pocket. Sometimes they do it this way to make it more difficult to fix when it needs fixed in the future. (More likely they or another plumber will get a call...) And sometimes they actually put the unions in, and make life easier for everyone ever involved..."
My number one complaint with plumbers other than seeing one with a sawsall.
So #2 would be hooking up hot water heaters direct sorder. Cost is the only answer why. The ones here wont buy the flex connections and the codes approve it . With water heaters only lasting 6 years , direct is nuts. A homeowner should be able to change out their own hot water heater with out learning the plumbing trade.
I could make a whole thread what happens when a homeowner cuts the lines off a water heater normally.
Tim
If you want to read the installation instructions before you decide to diy, you can go to http://www.amtrol.com/pdf/9015A290wxtio.pdf
Wellxtrol seems to have a very good reputation among the well drillers that I work with.
I have two of those tanks, one at least 20 years old, the other over 15. Are you sure it needs to be replaced? How was it determined to be bad?
An old client called and said he was having pump problems. I checked out his tank, and it appeared to have a hole in the bladder, as there was no pressure on the bladder side when the tank was drained, and the pump cycled on and off very rapidly. I bought a new tank and was getting ready to install it when I decided to try an experiment; I pressurized the top side of the bladder to about 30psi. Which held for at least a half an hour. Come to find out the guys wife didn't like the water pressure and started playing with the valve, releasing all the air above the bladder.
Moral of the story, do a pressure test on the tank when it's empty before trashing it. Drain the tank, keep the drain open, pressurize the top (I used a digital tire gauge to check pressure). Pressure might decay some dependent on air/environmental temperatures, but should level off, if the bladder is good.
If the bladder does have a leak, a likely cause could be the pump cut in pressure is lower than tank pressure. Pump cut in should be greater than empty tank pressure by at least 2 psi.
Here's a link to the Install/Op. guide from WellXTroll:
http://amtrol.com/pdf/9015A290wxtio.pdf
Good luck.
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul." Invictus, by Henley.
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From what I see here, it looks like you've got enough room between the tank and the T to get a tubing cutter in there. If you can, just cut the pipe there, leaving at least ¾" inch of pipe stub coming out of the T so you can sweat on one half of a union. Then sweat the other half onto the pipe going to the new tank.
Do it that way and you don't have to touch the control box or pressure gauge.
As to how long the tank should last, that's a variable. Well-X-Trol is a good brand, but I have seen them fail after 5 years, or last over 20. My own tank developed a pinhole leak on the water side of the bladder membrane about 5-7 years after installation. I squirted a dab of silicone on the hole, backed it up with a piece of popsicle stick, and wrapped four turns of hockey tape around the tank to hold it all in place. It's still holding 15 years later.
Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not brought
low by this? For thine evil pales before that which
foolish men call Justice....
So, just cut the pipe going to the tank and don't mess with the tee at all, except to add the union? Pretty simple repair, except that I don't think I have the room between the pipe and the platform to cut the pipe all the way around with a pipe cutter. Mooney made the comment , "My number one complaint with plumbers other than seeing one with a sawsall." Since, if I can't get a pipe cutter around the pipe, I'll probably pull out the sawsall to make the cut, what's wrong with using a sawsall?
George
They make pipe cutters that will cut a pipe without having access all around the pipe.In this case, I would recommend you use a hacksaw.A sawzall, even with a hacksaw blade, will play holy heck with vibrating everything on that line.Just take your time with the hacksaw. You don't HAVE to have the pipe cut in under a minute. Heck, you don't even have to have it cut in under 5 minutes. LOL Just as long as you get it cut without jamming the saw up, jerking everything around, and getting all frustrated.
Only slightly faster than the speed of stupid, since 1957.
I don't think you want to make a cut between the tank and the tee. That should be a cast bronze fitting, not a piece of copper pipe, going all the way in to the fitting on the bottom of the tank. If so, its OD is going to be too big to fit inside a copper fitting. See this web page - http://www.aymcdonald.com/ProdList_Plumbing.cfm?getgroup=49&sendCat=11What I think you have is similar to #2045. If you want a union to make it any easier to install another tank later, replace the existing tank tee with #2047.
It's hard to be sure from your photo, but to me it looks like a bronze T with ¾" copper tubing running back to the tank. That's a fairly typical configuration. Here's a photo of a similar installation.
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If you can't swing a full-sized tubing cutter all the way around the pipe (it would be tricky here, too), see if you can find a 'mini' tubing cutter with enough jaw capacity to handle the ¾" tube. You don't want to sawzall it for the reason Luka gave: it'll vibrate everything all to heck. A sawzall will also give you a very rough cut which you'll have trouble dressing afterwards so it'll slide into the fittings.
If you can't get any sort of tubing cutter in there, use a hand hack saw and go nice and easy so you don't deform the tubing. Then smooth the burrs off with a file.
When you sweat ¾" you really need to be sure the mating surfaces are very clean (ie: wire brushed or sandpapered till they're bright, inside and out), very well fluxed (Goodcrest soldering paste is one of the best), and you've got a torch capable of putting out a lot of heat (ideally a MAPP or oxy-acetylene torch). The union you'll be sweating on there is a bronze casting with a lot more mass than just a copper tubing fitting; also, the surface area of the joint in a ¾" pipe is not one third greater than in a ½" pipe, it's 1½ times greater.
Also make very sure the pipes in that area are dry. If there's water in the system (of course, there will be somewhere), make sure it can't drain back to the area you'll be working or you'll just sit there wasting gas and not getting the pipe hot enough to melt the solder. (I assume you know it's the pipe which has to melt the solder, not the torch flame. The flame heats the pipe; you should never put the flame on the solder or you risk getting a cold joint which will leak.)Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
I took a closer look and the tee is completely brass so I guess I have some disassembly to do. On the left side it looks like I can remove the well supply line from the check valve. On the right, desolder the line from the elbow and then I can lift out teh tank and tee, unscrew the entire tee assembly from the tank and put it on the new one. Should anything on the tee be replaced or can I just reuse everything?
The vertical line coming out of the right elbow connects to another 90 degree elbow for the line going to the sediment filter. Since I put a shutoff on the inlet side of the filter when I injstalled it, I may use that to shut the line off and move it over a bit so I can put a union on next to that lower elbow.
Edited 6/22/2006 4:47 pm ET by GeorgeP
Edited 6/22/2006 4:50 pm ET by GeorgeP
From the close up photos you posted, it looks like you're going to have to do some cutting. But you may be able to salvage the T anyway.
The gizmo on the well side of the T looks like a check-valve; assuming your pump is down the well (ie: 'pushing' the water up to that point) you don't have to worry about losing prime if you remove it. Unscrew the hose clamps on the PVC elbow, heat up the black hose a bit with a torch (go gently, you want to soften it, not melt it), and pull the fitting out of the hose.
Now go to the house side of the tank. Cut the ½" tubing at least one inch above the elbow where you can get a clean shot at it. Now your tank, tee, and all are free to pull out of there except for the electrical connection on the pump control switch (kill the power and disconnect it. Tag the wires so you know which terminals they go to later). Once you get it free, lay the tank on its side and unscrew the T from the tank inlet.
Clean up the tube ends where you had to cut, and sweat half a union on each end. If you really want to, you can now unscrew the PVC elbow from the check valve and add in a threaded union between them to avoid having to horse around with pulling the elbow next time.
Clean up all the threads carefully and wrap new Teflon¯ tape on them (yes, even the pvc threads (but not the insert barbs)). Assemble, tighten, and test. If a threaded joint leaks, tighten it carefully till it does not. If a sweated joint leaks, drain the system and try it again. (You're allowed to curse, but not for over 20 seconds....)
Be prepared for the fact you're going to get filthy dirty water in your lines for five minutes of so. Run the cold until it goes clear. Don't open any hot faucets until that happens or you'll push crud into the HW tank. If flow at sinks, showerheads etc. is below normal, check the screens & flow restrictor discs; a small bit of crud stuck in one of them can knock output way down.
PS--Don't start this procedure on Friday night. Wait till Monday. Plumbers charge overtime to bail you out on the weekend if something goes screwey....Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....