Hi All,
I,m starting a re-roof job on a castle on Monday. It was origionally built in 1765 with a new roof added in 1890. The castle is open as a hotel all year around. The top floor bedrooms were to have a refurb, but after ripping out the walls and ceilings it turns out the whole roof has rotted aroung the wall plates and birdsmouths of the rafters.
I have to strip the whole roof, salvage as many natural slates as I possibly can, prop the top have of the roof from the collar ties up to the ridge, cut out the rafters and reframe the whole thing including the 6 dormers and reslate with the salvaged slates including lots of leadwork and leadwelding in 6 days!
It wont be easy as we only have 7 hours of daylight and the weather is terrible (raining every day). Also the roof has to be left water tight every night and all the others works cant be held up. i.e the mech and elec and metal framers, slabbers etc.
I was thinking of doing a thread on it if ye would be interested and if I have time to take pictures between the all work?
What do ye think? Is it possible? Will I do a thread?
Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated
Edited 1/19/2007 6:11 pm ET by emmetnee
Edited 1/19/2007 6:12 pm ET by emmetnee
Replies
>>>>>>>>>>>I was thinking of doing a thread on it if ye would be interested and if I have time to take pictures between the all work?
I'd be very interested and I suspect many more would be as well.
http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Edited 1/19/2007 6:14 pm ET by seeyou
Believe me I'll be taking all my vitamins this week!!
just trying to post some pics. I took these on friday
I hope this works, Am trying to resize
Resized - we want more!
View Image
View Image
I use Picasa (free) to resize. Select 480 pixels and 85% quality; makes 'em about 28-65K jpgs, usually.
Forrest
Edited 1/21/2007 8:00 pm by McDesign
Edited 1/21/2007 8:02 pm by McDesign
Thanks for doing that, I find these computers so frustrating!
I,ve taken loads of photos on friday and of todays progress but am having trouble resizing and posting.
Please bare with me on this one!
Em-
Don't worry about spending time on the sizing as you have bigger fish to fry.
Just get the pics on here any way you can and we can easily shrink and repost the pics for you with no problem.
These are some of the pictures I took earlier today, we were very lucky as it stayed dry all day.
we made good progress stripping the roof and salvaging the slates (had estimated 30% waste but it looks like it will be considerably less)
Got 2 dormers and surrounding roof stripped, framed 3 sets of stairs, got all the roof propped, graded and cleaned all the slates for reuse, removed all old dormer framing and got roof covered. We would have got more done had our lumber arrived in early morning like they promised! didn't arrive til 4pm.
I hope these photos make sense!
Edited 1/22/2007 3:52 pm ET by emmetnee
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Do a thread, for god's sake! Sounds like a dream job.
I'm waiting with worms on my tongue.
Forrest - with bated breath
Edit - isn't it pretty late over there? Get some sleep - you'll need it!
Edited 1/19/2007 6:23 pm by McDesign
Theres no doubt it will be hard going but it will be a good project to have under my belt
Its currently 23:30. My brain is working overtime, dont think I'll sleep at all this week!!
Edited 1/19/2007 6:29 pm ET by emmetnee
I'd like to see your progress.
You sure have some restrictions on that job.
The worst part is that the air con guys have units fitted to the ceilings and I'm responsible for any damage done to them
<air con guys have units fitted to the ceilings and I'm responsible for any damage done to them>
Damage to the guys, or their units?
Forrest - wanting to know. Funny, you don't sound Irish
Please keep us posted, if you have the time! Post some pics too! I got the chance to do some historical slate renovation early in my roofing career (early 70's). Learned a lot from the feisty old Germans I worked with. Can't use that knowledge much these days. The first thing most contractors tell an owner with a slate roof that just needs some minor repairs is that their roof is shot. Then a 200yr. roof is thrown into a landfill and an asphalt roof is slapped on, guaranteed to fail in 15-25 years!! So sad.
getting a little chatty...
em,
Do a thread, post pics. We learn from each other.
Chuck S.live, work, build, ...better with wood
Its so true what you are saying, the same thing is happening here also, although people are just starting to get wise now. There is nothing nicer than a natural slate roof
more photos
Edited 1/22/2007 4:08 pm ET by emmetnee
Nice work. It's interesting to follow this since I have a cousin who is a roofer in Galway, Ireland.
who is he, I might know him
Edited 1/22/2007 6:09 pm ET by emmetnee
I sent you an email
Awesome job, Emmet. I'll hoist a Guinness to ya wishing I could be there too.
But howcum it's not raining in those photos? It always rains in Ireland, doesn't it?Dinosaur
How now, Mighty Sauron, that thou art not broughtlow by this? For thine evil pales before that whichfoolish men call Justice....
more pictures,More pictures,MORE pictures!!!!
I am dying here man--
thanks for sharing these,
Stephen
damage to both!!
Sure sounds like you are taking on a lot of liability for this one job, hope you're being well compensated
I'm well insured for this kind of work and also my QS has drawn up a good contract for me, so I 'm not too worried in that dept!
not only would i like to see it---i would like to take a field trip to see it!!!!!
post pictures man!!!!!
Stephen
pack up your tools and get going. With that kind of schedule and conditions, he's going to neeed something like an Amish crew swarmiong the place. I'm sure he could fit you in!
;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
No Amish here unfortunetly!
Edited 1/20/2007 12:31 pm ET by emmetnee
"No Amish here unfortunetly!"Maybe not, but if you look around, you may find some Quakers.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Dont think I'd have to look too hard!
he's going to neeed something like an Amish crew swarmiong the place
You mean like in this puzzle Mom is working on?
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
dang that's a cool puzzle.
You know, there are companies that will put your pic on a jigsaw puzzle.
Maybe we could get emmetnee to take a whole building view pic and... nah.
Hi everyone,
Thanks for all the interest in this thread, this is helping me to destress I think!.
I must apologise in advance because I didnt get a chance to take any photos today, was flat out on the tools in between all the meetings I had with the contractors, safety officers, interior designers.
I'm starting the 1st fixing tomorrow aswell, there is more work in that then the roof.
I made good progress today, got all the framing done in the front including the dormers, got half of the back roof stripped and got all the slates we took off graded cleaned and ready to be put back on tomorrow. Dare I say it but I'm ahead of schedule!
I'm very lucky because this is the best weather we've had all winter, its suppose to stay dry until the weekend. Thank God it wasn't last week, it would have been to wet and windy.
I will take plenty of pictures tomorrow to make up for today, including a front picture of the castle and the surrounding views
We're really looking forward to more progress shots and overview too.
What town is it in?
Walter
Its in Co. Galway, a few miles from a place called Clifden. Its an hour drive for me in the morning, I live in galway city
any chance we could see what the whole castle looks like? we don't have 'em here.looks great
Will have loads of pictures tomorrow!
http://www.ballynahinch-castle.com/the_estate_history.htm
This is a website for the castle. Its worth looking at.
Pretty neat.
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Hmm, with $1.30 to a Euro, looks like rates run $227.50-910/night.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Edited 1/23/2007 5:38 pm by JohnT8
yaView Image
I was in Galway about 2 years ago on a tour.That Gracie was some kind of woman!
Not that any other Irish gals are anything but!;)
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Thanks for the pictures. It looks like you're doing well.
I've done a little slate repair over the years, but decided it's too much like work to do more. I'll stick to trim work.
If you fancy a field trip, I'll give you a few days work! I'm sure there will be something you could do!!!
emmetnee,
my original comment was wistfull/wishfull thinking.
however-- I then had 2 excellent ideas how i might actually be able to make it happen
RE-Reading your first post-- I see that you start MONDAY---which presents visa/passport issues
however----- my 2 ideas----would be applicable on other projects ------------with more notice.
email me-----'cause i would be happy to discuss something like this---and I actually think I could arrange the "working trip"
I would be an idiot to pass up an opportunity like that---------
Stephen
You would be more than welcome here any time !
Were you able to find/buy similar salvage slates to make up the difference?
Am importing some salvaged slates from england, should be arriving on wednesday.
we will be using all the salvaged slates for the front of the castle and a mix of both slates at the back
Excellent looking job!
Will you replace the battens before slating-I guess a lot of the framing will also be redone.
On this side of the Pond it's rare to not have a fully boarded roof for the slates to lie on. Are those from Valencia Island?
Thanks for all the pictures and for resizing them for us dial-up people.
Walter
Will you widen out the valleys for the new work? Are the old ones sheet lead?
Edited 1/22/2007 4:33 pm ET by theslateman
I have to replace at least 6ft of wall plate each side of the dormers and any place where it is rotting, I also have to cut the bottoms of the bad rafters and replace with new ones next to them and tie into the remainder of the old ones.
I will be felting and rebattening all of the roof and replacing all of the lead in the valleys and anywhere else where it might be damaged. I will definetly be widening the valleys, they are way to narrow, we usually have them at least 5" wide or just enough to get the width of a boot into for walking up on.
The most time consuming job will be battening because some of the gageing will change, from 9" for a few rows and then 6" up to the top. The heritage dept said we have to redo it the way it was, which is good. It just means alot of grading of the slates. The other problem is that the slates are too hard and thick to cut with a gulllitiene so we have to use a grinder which is more time consuming.
we had to take off the cast iron gutters just incase they fell off, they were so heavy. there were about 15 bats nesting behind them, one of the guys screamed like Ned Flanders, it was entertaining for the rest of us.
We will also have alot of Lead welding to do. I will post some of that as it happens, I know ye mostly use copper over there for flashing, so maybe it might be of interest to you.
I will take some pictures of the castle and the surrounding views, it is really breathtaking. It is a great to project to be on.
Once the roof is finished we will be starting the 1st & second fix, there is a lot of work in that also.
Your slate won't cut by peckering with a slater's hatchet then?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Will be easier and faster to cut with grinder and roughly dress edges for natural look. I cant believe how hard they are, they are more like granite than slate
Thanks for the replyand good luck with weather.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Waltah, I can't do anything until next wednesday I forgot I have to go to Sugarloaf for Special Olympics Sun, Mon & Tues. and I have to get in some practice Thurs & Fri. from 12:30 - 1:30 public skate times at Sawyer. I coach my daughter and 4 others from Hampden Academy for speed skating. I don't have your e-mail & I think years ago Yale had to get some green and red slate from Ireland, "brain cramp" too many years!
Edited 1/23/2007 8:56 am ET by GUNN308
How big a crew will you be using for this restoration?
Doesn't sound to me that 6 days would give you enough time to complete the work you've outlined.
I'd also love to see pictures of the job. Keep us posted.
Walter
I Will be using 9 guys in total.
3 framers bracing the roof ,
3 labourers stripping and salvaging the slates, cutting out old rafters etc.
3 slaters to felt and batten and slate of course.
We will all be taking part in each aspect of the job.
The worst part is that I have 3 other projects that have to stay going aswell.
Edited 1/20/2007 12:31 pm ET by emmetnee
Edited 1/20/2007 12:34 pm ET by emmetnee
That sounds like a great job that is going to very stressfull.
I would love to see a photo thread on it if you have the time to take the pictures etc. during the work.
emmetnee,
May I respctfully suggest that you don't use stock demensional wood to replace those rafters?
It's held up this long using sawn timbers, demensional wood today has no where near the strength those old growth timbers did..
A cheap way to replace them is go find a sawmill and have them saw you new timbers..It will be much much cheaper and vastly superior. Wouldn't it be nice to have your work around for a couple of hundred years? How many chances do you get to do that?
I know where you are coming from but it wasn't my call, Im not supplying the lumber. Also it wasn't suppose to be roofed initially, only a refurb inside so it was all very rushed, we wouldn't have had time even if we wanted to.
125 years is pretty good life for a roof. Sure beats 15.
Looks good, keep the pics coming. And can we have a pic or two taken from further back so that we can see what the whole building looks like?
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."
-- Buddha
More pictures of todays progress!
We are ahead of schedule on the framing, but will be behind on the slating.
There is alot of work in grading the slates, All differient sizes. We need to know how many of each size we have in order to batten the roof, also the salvaged slates from england wont arrive until next week.
I Hope the pictures make sense!
Edited 1/24/2007 5:26 pm ET by emmetnee
The most important picture
Excellent pics, but is the Castle pub a bit pricey?
If you can pick a spot where the work shows up really well and then take pics from that spot as the work progresses, I can Flash them together for you.
View Imagejt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Thanks a million for the offer but unfortunetly there is no 1 spot to take the photos from unless I get an air balloon.
The main framing work is in 4 different areas with a few different places in between.
Do any of ye know how to post the pictures up like Mike Smith, that way I could explain as I go.
The whole resizing thing take time!
Also see 98679.4 and 98679.17
After you have saved the picture from the computer as an attachment to this site you will see a 'post' 'preview' 'spellcheck'etc...buttons at the bottom of the page.
Upon left clicking that 'preview' button you will be taken to a page with the 'revise' 'post' tabs at the bottom of the page only now you will see the yellow attachment icon(s) in the body of the post and left clicking on the icon will open the attachment revealing your photo.
A right click on the photo will reveal a pull down menu and left clicking 'copy' will save the pic in the browser.
Now left click the back arrow in the upper left of the screen to return to the 'revise' 'post' page and left click 'revise' which opens the window and let's you right click on the window to open the scroll menu.
Then left click 'paste' and the pic will appear in the body of the post.
Then scroll down and left click post.
From:
BossHog <!----><!---->
8:09 am
To:
brownbagg <!----><!---->unread
(9 of 9)
89916.9 in reply to 89916.4
To put a pic in a post, I first attach the pic to the post.
Then I put this line in the post:
<img src="">
Next I preview the post. where the text for the picture attachment is, I right-click and pick "Copy link location".
Then I hit the "revise" button to come back to the post. I put the cursor between the quote marks in the "<img src="">" thingy. and I paste the text for the link there.
The box below the post has to be checked where it says "Check here if HTML tags are in the message".
And that's all there is to it.
From:
DanH <!----><!---->
9:44 am
To:
BossHog <!----><!---->unread
(10 of 10)
89916.10 in reply to 89916.9
You forgot the trailing "/" before the ">".
From:
BossHog <!----><!---->
10:17 am
To:
DanH <!----><!---->unread
(11 of 11)
89916.11 in reply to 89916.10
I've been using <img src=""> for several years, and never have used the "/" character in the string.
General Discussion - Cool Classical Portico Project
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From:
Handydan57 <!----><!---->
6:46 pm
To:
McDesign <!----><!---->
(301 of 302)
73188.301 in reply to 73188.31
Hi McDesign
I Have a post regarding building a deck on a roof. How do you get your pictures to appear as part of the post?
Dan
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From:
McDesign <!----><!---->
10:45 pm
To:
Handydan57 <!----><!---->unread
(302 of 302)
73188.302 in reply to 73188.301
It's harder now in Windows XP. First, I write a title and a first word or two in a new post. Then, I add all my pictures. Then, I post it.
Then, one at a time, I click on the pic in the posted thread, right click copy, hit the BT "edit" icon at the bottom, get to the EDIT screen, put my cursor where I want the pic, and right click "paste". Then I add any more text relating to that pic. Apply changes, and then continue, and you're back to your posted thread.
Do it again. And again. After the last pic has been pasted in, but before you hit "apply", go to "Manage attachments" and delete all your pics. Then, erase all the delete notifications at the bottom of your post, THEN hit your last APPLY, then CONTINUE, and Bob's your uncle.
Sounds goofy, but I don't even think about it anymore.
Looking forward to seeing your thread!
Forrest
Edited 12/27/2007 11:10 am ET by rez
There are different ways to embed the pics into your post. Probably the most popular here on BT is to simply type out your message, attach your pics, and then post it. Then go back and view the message, bring up a picture, copy the pic (With Windows-InternetExplorer: either right-click on it and select 'copy' or up on the tool bar click edit-copy). Then edit the message and paste the picture wherever you want to place it.
A variation on this method: instead of posting the message, click on 'preview'. From there you can bring up the pics and copy them. Then go to 'revise' to insert them into the text. When finished you can post.
I've done that on this post and embedded a comic.
View Image
In cases where you have multiple pics you can bring each pic up in its own window. With Internet Explorer, I can either right-click on the picture and choose 'open in a new window' and it will pop it up in its own window. If I had 4 pics, I could do this for each and then one-by-one copy the pic from that window and insert it into my post text. A shortcut is to hold the shift key down and click on the pic. This should also open the pic in a new window (if you aren't blocking pop-ups).
And there are other ways to embed them.
Either way, you're stuck resizing them. I think Mike might have his camera set at a lower resolution so that his pictures automatically come out small, but I'm not fond of this method because the higher the resolution on the picture, the more you can do with it.
If I've lost you anywhere, just tell me and I'll hit it again. Your pics would fit nicely into that format that Mike uses. Bit of text followed by the applicable pic. Bit more text followed by applicable text, etc.
jt8
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one getting burned."-- Buddha
Thanks, that sounds do-able even for me! I'll have a bash at it over the weekend.
My apologies to everyone I didn't take any pictures today but got all the roof framing done and finished the felt and battening, so all is water tight or as good as anyway.
Will spend the weekend regrading all the slates and will lead all the valley etc, ready for next week.
I wont be there tomorrow, am starting a new job, another refurb with extension on the back, more roofing etc, will take some pics of that if ye want.
Edited 1/26/2007 3:36 pm ET by emmetnee
>>>>>will take some pics of that if ye want.Ye wants. Please take pics and post as your time allows, but you've got a lot of people following this thread.You asked why we don't use more lead. I think you answered that question when you said you had to have your guys tested every 6 months. The public perception is that lead is dangerous and the public to some extent doesn't want it on their roof when they had to pay premium prices to get lead based paint or plumbing parts abated from the inside of their houses. I use some lead (plumbing vent flashings and stone chimney flashings on occasion) and some lead coated copper, but it's not often welcomed.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Emmet,
I'm mostinterested in seeing what you refer to as lead welding. Pictures if you can-embedded or just as usual.
Do you have a Guild system there?
All the best, Walter
I've done a little lead "welding". I'll be interested in seeing his technique also. Mine consists of using a copper of the right temp and melting two pieces together. Too hot and you've made a mess not easily fixed.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Grant, similar to what I thought,but wondered if solder was also involved.
In my "project for Spring" thread I've begun pricing Revere Freedom Grey for just the reasons you have mentioned. Lead and preschoolers don't mix.
Walter
We cut strips of lead rods about 1/8", clean the edges to ensure a good clean weld. We put the 2 pieces side by side and melt the lead rod using an oxygen and acceletene torch. Its very hard to perfect, it takes both alot of time and more importantly patience to perfect it.
Will bo doing some tomorrow so will post pics on Sunday so stay tuned. I also have some picture I've taken on other jobs of some lead welding, so will dig them out and post them also.
The little lead welding I've done, I used the smallest brazing tip I had and the smallest ball of flame I could get to stay lit, but then, I was welding two sheets of about 12ga.
I once McGuivered two wires together with jumper cables and solder clamped in one of ' em. Not a pretty weld/solder job, lemmee tell ya, but it got us off the bombing range and back home.SamT
Guys that don't do things correctly the first time.....then argue that they did nothing wrong.....if made to agree to fix the problem, rarely put the time and effort into truely doing it properly. they'll just look for the quickest fix to appease you and get their money. JDRHI <!----><!----> 84310.51
there is no actual guide system here for lead welding. It is thought here as part of the plumbing apprenticeship.
I learned it from my dad, he qualified at it in England. there are three levels in leadwork, they are a bronze ticket, a silver ticket and a gold ticket. My Dad has all three. In England leadwork is seen as a different trade. It pays very well over there, pity its not the same over here! There are only about 10 contractors in Ireland who can do Leadwelding.
I'm really looking forward to you're project for spring thread. How many guys will you have with you?
Edited 1/26/2007 3:40 pm ET by emmetnee
Emmet,
Thanks for the run down on lead welding-looking forward to seeing pictures of the process.
When we join sheet metals here it's typical to solder them with a lead/tin mix in bar form.
This album shows some of it.
You might want to use these types of photo sharing sites as well.
http://share.shutterfly.com/action/welcome?sid=8cbsmrhqzpQ
Unsure as to how large a crew I can get-I've been working solo for the last 8 months. Walter
walter-I am eager to see how the lead welding goes in Ireland as well.
I used to do it almost every day-for over 5 years-----It's been almost 20 years since then, though.( I spent over 5 years as an industrial hard chrome plater)
Basically-we built electric anodes out of lead-to conform to the shape of quite elaborate plastic injection molds for use in the electro-plating process.( the actual molds were often worth over $500,000---------and plating .0004" of chromium on them greatly extended their life.
anyhow-we used a very fine tip-running natural gas and oxygen through the torch----------- very fine tip-the hottest part of the flame was maybe the size of a grain of rice--the rest of the flame no more than an inch or so.
Usually-we were not joining 2 pieces of sheet lead together-usually we were joining lead rods together-or attaching a piece of sheet lead to either a lead rod or a lead wire
the sheet lead we used-was typically-more like a foil-although some of the stuff was closer to about3/16"-------I can't now remember how it was sized--not by gauge I don't think-i believe it was by pound.
Of course-our burns didn't have to be water tight-they were structural-and to allow the flow of electrons.
VERY interested to see how the lead burning goes over there.
Stephen
Stephen,
It sounds like you've got a much better handle on this subject than the rest of us. The lead I see here is awfully soft for valley work. Are there ways to harden or temper lead so that it will be more able to withstand erosion corrosion from water constantly flowing over it?
Walter
Hi Walter,
the most important factor in Lead work is that it has to be able to move freely. The worst thing you can do is over fix it. Lead will last a life time if done properly. As far as I know there is no way to harden lead, the good thing about lead is that it is self healing i.e if you scored it with a knife it will mend itself over time. Lead only cracks when it isn't able to move.
I got some of the Lead Aprons and Lead Caps made today. I took pictures today but I havent't time to post them, will do it tomorrow if thats ok!
I'm amazed that the act of water flowing over the lead valleys doesn't wear them out over the course of many years. How thick are the sheets you are welding together?
Take your time with the pictures- the work is more important at this point. We'll get to see them when you have time to upload some.
Walter
>>>>>I'm amazed that the act of water flowing over the lead valleys doesn't wear them out over the course of many years. How thick are the sheets you are welding together?I was wondering the same thing. I knew lead use was rampant there, but they must be using a lot thicker sheet than what we're commonly exposed to.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
The only time water damages lead is when it has stettled on it, i.e when it is on a flat surface. The acid in the rain can eat into it over a peroid of time. It is not wise to let moss or leaves build up in lead valleys or at the back of chimneys as these will hold water . Water will never damage water just flowing over it.
We generally use 3 different sizes of lead sheet:
Code 3 (3lb) We use this for soakers so it doesn't kick up the slates too much. 3/32" thick.
Code 4 (4lb) We use this for most work, Valleys Chimney aprons, back gutters etc. 1/8" thick
Code 5 (5lb) We use this for very exposed areas only. 3/16" thick. On the castle job we arfe using code 5 for valleys, chimney aprons etc. We are using code 4 for soakers.
Edited 1/29/2007 3:09 pm ET by emmetnee
Emmet,
I'm not familiar with the term "soakers". I can see using the thicker,more weighty leads for the more exposed areas.
Heres what happens to 16 ounce copper sheet when water drips off of the valley slates for a long period of time.
Perhaps thats why you use thicker sheets for the more exposed areas-lead does wear,but not completely away as in this picture.
Walter
emmet.. i use the edit feature to move them into the text
after they're posted on BT, i go back & edit them .... use control C to copy..
then edit & control V to paste them where i want them
"every picture tells a story, don't it ? "
great thread
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks Mike,
Thats great, I wil give it a go later.
I love reading/ watching the progress of your threads. You do some really class work, you're a real master of your trade. Some days when I'm at work I'm wondering hows Mike Smith getting on today!
Your projects are addictive to watch!
well, thanks.. it must be like watching grass grow at times thoughMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
This is the progress up to date
The dormer finished from the inside, will start slating them on tuesday
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This is a new insulation on the market in Europe, Its suppose to be the best yet.
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Some of the old timber framing dating back to 1800s
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Out with the old Lead......
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.......and in with the new....
This is one of the lead caps being made..... I make a template of the pitch of the roof and then boss the lead. I cut it at the top and bend it to the pitch of the roof. I then weld a piece of lead to it...
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I clean the edges of the lead to recieve a good weld... I cut a piece of lead to suit the V shape
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I use a piece if lead rod about a 1/4" , again I clean the edges to ensure a good weld.... get my oxy & acc torch and go to work
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Lead is possibly the hardest metal to weld because it is so soft. It takes alot of paitence and practice to perfect it...
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This is the finished product.....
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This is a chimney apron underway..... again I make a template of the pitch of the roof
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I actually forgot to take a picture of the final product but i think ye get the idea!
Every thing is still going on inside..... will be starting the 2nd fix tomorrow.....
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The Company wagon......
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Some houses I framed & slated in 2006.......
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This picture is for Mr. Drystone!!!...
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Back of the house.....
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This is another one I did directly opposite the house above....
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Hope ye enjoy the pictures. Mike Smith thanks for the tips!!!
Edited 1/28/2007 5:29 pm ET by emmetnee
Edited 1/28/2007 5:30 pm ET by emmetnee
Nice pics- thanks for the updates.
On your van- what does first and second fixings mean?
I guess I should get an Irish to American dictionary
1st fixing would be the door frames and window boards, and any timber partitions, basically everything before the drywall goes up!
2nd fixing is the skirting, arcitrave, doors, stairs etc.
Edited 1/28/2007 5:35 pm ET by emmetnee
why is there a lot of green lumber in that recent picture of the inside?
I like that ruler you have with the handle on top. Who makes it?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
ooh, oooh .. i know
the green is Cuprinol.. i never saw any PT wood in Ireland.. sure saw a lot of green cuprinol thoughMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
We do have PT lumber, but sometimes there can be a few days wait, we had no time to wait on this project. This was the first job I ever had to paint it on!
Edited 1/28/2007 7:15 pm ET by emmetnee
emmet.... when you roll the edge .. why do you roll it up ? can you roll it down so it won't catch ?
View ImageMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
I thought I might get a question on that, I roll it up to act as a backsplash incase any water gets in that far. Its more a precautionary measure than anything else.
Emmet
Nice thread, and I really liked the house that you pictured, well done!
I know squat about what your doing but it does look like a first rate job.
Doug
Edited 1/29/2007 2:01 am ET by DougU
Hi Everyone,
Earlier in the year I started a post on reroofing an 18 century castle. I must apologise to everyone who was following this thread as I stopped posting half way through the project. I didn,t have the time during the project to post any pictures or even log on to the computer. I was always intending on finishing the post, but in March I had moved office and everything was up in a heap , then work really took off & I just didnt get the time. I sat down a few months back to download all the photos but had lost the cable to connect my camera to the computer, but alas I have found it & thought I would post the rest of the pictures!
Again I apologise to everyone involved
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Day 1 stripping the roof
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stripping roof
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stripping Valley
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valley only 2" wide
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Nearly all stripped
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dormer stripped
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slates stripped to battens
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Reframing roof where timber was wrotten. Because this was a restoration job as such the old timber had to be kept where ever possible
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Some old timbers were beefed up with new ones
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Happy at work!
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Dormers at back all framed......
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Felt & battening underway
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Covered with plastic temporarily ........
There was alot of enquires about lead welding so here is a few pictures of a View Image
lead saddle cap for up at the ridge where it abutts a wall...
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Cut angle piece to form top of saddle......
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Clean the edges of the lead to ensure a good weld.....
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Cut a lead rod about 1/8 wide and use an oxygen & accetelene torch to weld the 2 pieces together, this is alot harder than it sounds, your torch has to have the exact right flame, their is very little room fo rerror as the lead is so soft.....
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Edited 8/19/2007 9:58 am ET by emmetnee
Very cool! I am envious, what a fascinating job. Thanks for the update.
Naive but refreshing !
Heres more
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close up look of weld..... and the finished product.......................
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A Chimney apron being made.........
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We make a template to pitch of roof and cut the lead in the necessary areas in order to shape it, then we cut angle pieces and weld them together......
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This is the dormers before they were stripped and reroofed............
BEFORE
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AND AFTER.........................
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Edited 8/19/2007 10:25 am ET by emmetnee
And More photos of finished roof..................
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Edited 8/19/2007 10:42 am ET by emmetnee
Edited 8/19/2007 10:43 am ET by emmetnee
More Photos.........................
Dormers inside before they were stripped
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Reframed dormers with multifoil insulation..............
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some of the old framing behind the new metal studs......
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I didn't get a chance to take any photos of the trim work as it was progressing because things were so manic. I spent my time between the roof & inside work
I took these photos when it was fonished
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Finished Bedroom
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Excuse the Ugly Mug!!!.....................
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Pannelled bathroom
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This was one of the dormers 3 weeks previous...........
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These ceiling panels all had to be made removable to gain access to the aircon units...
That is the bulk of all the photos of this project.
We started on the 20th Janurary and we finished on the 8th March. We got the roof water tight in time but the slating ran over time by 10 days.It was intended to put salvaged slates on all the roof but this option would have been too slow for the allowcated time to finish the project. In the end we had to put new natural slates on the back of the building, it didn't look as bad as I thought it would.
During the last few weeks all my crew worked 14hour days for the last 3 weeks in order to finish on time.
On the day the Hotel opened for business there was helicopters landing every 10 minutes, we were still in the bedrooms finishing out!
Since the start of this job business has really taken off. I have had to move office and am constanly hiring new guys. my current workforce stands at 16. I'm finding it hard to juggle my time between work & free time. I am starting to build my own house in a few weeks, will be stick framing it myself and doing alot of the interior work, was going to do a thread on it??
Again I apologise to all BTers who contributed & supported me in this thread!
I will be posting some more of my work on a regular basis from now on if ye are interested?
Edited 8/19/2007 12:35 pm ET by emmetnee
Edited 8/19/2007 12:37 pm ET by emmetnee
Thanks man, appreciate your efforts bringing this to us.A great place for Information, Comraderie, and a sucker punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
Cool pictures, and yes we do like them. Keep em coming.
Doug
Thanx for sharing.
Great looking work!
Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Thanks for all the comments, its nice to get from other tradesmen
Edited 8/19/2007 7:14 pm ET by emmetnee
What is the green stuff you paint on the wood ?
Yeh... That'll work.
Baby Leprechaun oil. Squeeze in a press they do over there.
No wonder those commercials about people trying to steal their pots of gold show their bad attitudes!
Its called Cuprinol, its a wood preservative. Sometimes they dont have pressure treated lumber in stock so we just buy this stuff, pain it on and it does the same thing so they say but i'm a scepticle about it. I think you have to pressure pregnate timber for it to work!
Thank you.=0)
Yeh... That'll work.
Looks fantastic! What does that give them, another 200 years before the roof needs any more work?
And give us a thread when you build your house.jt8
"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner, liberty is a well armed lamb protesting the vote." -- Benjamin Franklin
Thanks very much, I hope it will last another 200 years, not sure if I could go through with it again in my lifetime!
Great looking work! Thanx for sharing.Chuck Slive, work, build, ...better with wood
Really,really beautifull pictures Emmet----thanks so much for sharing them.
at the risk of hijacking your thread,LOL----------
Walter had asked about hardening lead----------as an impractical matter for our/your application---I know of essentially 2 ways.
approx. 20 years ago--and before I got into roofing--I spent over 5 years working as a industrial hard chrome electro plater----we chrome plated molds and dies----------which required us to build electrical anodes out of lead.--- The pictures you showed of building a model---and forming and welding the lead right on the model---was the basis of what we did.
the most elaborate molds we plated were molds that made the front end of cars---the grills and headlight assemblies etc( we also did all the molds for the body panels for the Fiero)
At any rate------the models were supplied to us from pattern makers---usually Mahogany,plaster and fiberglass-----and we proceeded almost identically to how you are working----although as I mentioned earlier--we used natural gas instead of acetylene
Regaurding hardening----------- 2 methods
1) we bought pure lead ingots and melted them down and cast them into to basic components----------one was a bar approx. 1/2" thick, 3 " wide and 30" long-----the other was basically a lead mesh or screen made out of 1/4" rods all joined together in a grid pattern. We purchased ready made lead wire in a variety of diameters------and we purchased sheet lead----------I THOUGHT we bought it by weight designations-not by gauge----glad you confirmed that----------------
any how---the first way to harden lead-----------basically pure lead at room tempature in the 30" bar form---can barely support it's own weight------------lower it into a tank of chromic acid at 138 degrees-----and it sags and distorts out of the shape you have spent months forming--------so the bars and grids we cast---we added tin and antimony--------------------I THINK the tin basically made the lead harder and more rigid----the lead antimony was more of a catylist I think--helping to join the 2 together( it's been twenty years--I can't quite recall
at any rate---by varying the amount of tin and antimony---we could give the lead various attributes.--------when Walter asked about hardening lead-----this was what I first thought of------------the sheet lead was ALWAYS quite soft----so I can't recall if it was possible to purchase sheet lead in different degrees of hardness( though we did buy occasionally some thin strips of printers lead that were much stiffer
2)---the other way we hardened lead---was un-intended------and greatly undesired.
the finished lead anode wasclamped to-and insulated from the mold to be plated----with the space between the mold and anode regulated VERY precisely.
the whole assembly was lowered into thousands of gallons of chromic acid heated to 138 degrees---the mold given a negative D.C. charge---and the anode given a positive D.C. charge------again-it's been 20 years-memory a little hazy----but as I recall we used low voltage---but pretty high amperage----7,000 to 13,000 amps traveling through bare buss bars
Basically---the item being plated was always short an electron--------the anode was alway plus an electron---a chrome ion would form at the anode---travel across the gap-----and deposit on the item to be plated
the long and the short of it was----this process greatly hardened the lead------the more times we used an anode the harder and more brittle it became.---a hard crust of lead oxide also formed on the outside of the anode--making future repairs difficult and requiring heavy scraping, grinding, wire brushing etc.-----------all tools, equipment, desks, machinery, walls everything within the shop---was covered with this lead oxide--------------
I don't think either of those 2 methods hardening lead is practical for what Walter asked---but they do exist( most people don't have several thousand gallons of chromic acid around, a huge DC generator etc. LOL
BTW----walter----in the 5 years I worked in that shop I had myself tested several times for lead poisoning----keep in mind that I was covered in the dust every day, all day for 5 years----- my lead levels barely budged in 5 years( never anywhere near a concern level). I know you are talking about using lead free" Freedom Grey" copper on that Day care center------------------------------ that will certainley make good P.R. to be sure------but as a practical matter lead from the chimney and valley flashings I SERIOUSLY doubt would have ANY effect on the kids----even of they were drinking directly from the downspouts LOL.----all the same------the" freedom grey" gives you a great sales tactic in that application and benefit from peoples natural concerns
sorry to side track the discussion, best wishes to all-----and thanks once again to Emmet-----
Stephen
Wow,
you did well to remember all that after 20 years and youre even better to write it all down! Seriously thats interesting information, Thanks
Also this isnt my thread, its for everyone, so all information, techniques, hands on advice is more than welcome! Its great to all learn from each other.
Edited 1/29/2007 3:26 pm ET by emmetnee
I'll have to check that for you, but there easily got here, try a stationery shop, thats where I get them!
Edited 1/28/2007 7:15 pm ET by emmetnee
Thanks. It's interesting to see how things are done, and what they're called, by others.
Emmet,
Wow-thats a really nice looking welding job. Thanks for all the photos in progress. What does the yellow handled tool do?
The yellow handled tool is for dressing the lead, there are a few different types. They do them in timber too.
Emmet,
thanks for posting the pictures, looks like a great site and great job.
Neil
oh, man... we've created a monster !
great .. great series...
bravo !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Nice slate work on the rounded roof!! We see a lot of Spanish and Chinese slate nowadays, not always the best of stuff. I am having an extension put on the back of the house this summer and have to get Welsh slates to match in with the existing.
If folks search out 'Historic Scotland publications' you will see a few books and reports on slating and stonework generally which might be of interest.
US readers should note the picture of the Ford Transit van - despite having an engine the size of the average US pickup windscreen wiper motor these vehicles are the workhorse that runs the construction industry.
despite having an engine the size of the average US pickup windscreen wiper motor
Yeah, but can you smoke the tires in the first three gears? Can you do 0-60 in 8 seconds towing the 250-hp fishing boat to the lake? Do you have tires big enough to climb over a 12" curb like it was nothing more than a poodle? Ha! You call that a truck?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
We are a bit more subtle over here in the Auld Country.
Yep your trucks can whip ours, but we can get in the 30's per gallon and fit as much into the back as you can.
A friend in Seattle has a pickup with a 7.2 litre Gardiner diesel engine - we use these for fishing boats - to power the boat in the water, not to take the boat to the water.
I'd love to see what they would be driving if they had to pay as much for fuel as us! The transit wouldn't be so bad then
I'd love to be driving a van that got 25-30 mpg. The problem here is that, between the gas prices being cheap, and the auto manufacturers not wanting to change without government intervention, well, I don't expect it soon.
We can get the Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter, but it's close to $8-10 grand more than a similar Chevy or Ford
Emmet,
I took some shots today of a chimney apron done with 20 oz. lead coated copper soldered with 50/50 bar solder.
When I left this morning it was 13 below zero fahrenheit and when I got back 30 minutes ago it was 13 above.
Walter
Where's the rest of that series? You're not going to leave us hanging there, are ya?
According to Convert, -13F = -25C, 13F = -10C
Either way it's too cold to be up on a roof.jt8
Wishing I could be like Forrest
John,
I don't know about celsius,but it was pretty cold this morning.
I didn't quite finish this reflash job today, but heres some more.
Tomorrow I've got to jump over onto the North side- not much solar gain over there.
Not to take this fabulous thread to far a field, but --
You mention the "latest insulation" in one castle picture caption. What is it? What is "typical" insulation in new construction?
How much of an issue is insulation/energy efficiency in new construction?What type of wall construction techniques are common in residential building? Wood studs etc? Is there interest in SIP's or ICF's?
I have enjoyed your thread very much.
F1
What a terrible view. How do you guys stand it? Keep 'em coming - this is a really cool project. Hope your weather holds.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
And Mr. T8 does a great job with the flash presentation. Take him up on the offer.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Great pics- thanks for the updates.
I have to ask- what's with those vests? Are you required to wear them for some reason?
<- what's with those vests? Are you required to wear them for some reason?>
Deer hunters.
Forrest
Deer hunters have to wear bright orange. The green blends in to much!
Doug
Yeah, but not up on a grey roof!
Forrest
Great looking work and jobsite
We can all start using the safety measures you employ.
Chuck S live, work, build, ...better with wood
Deer in Ireland hide on roofs?
What are they, Santa's reindeer vacationing in the Emerald Isles?
Similar idea, but in this case it is not for the deer, but pigeons..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
was gonna ask the same question-here we only see vests like that in combination with orange traffic cones------------
Stephen
They are Hi Visability Vests.
Health and Safety is gone gone OTT.
The vests have been around for years.
The basic Health & Safety Rules are as follows:
No one is allowed on site without Hi Vis Vest, Hard Hat, Steel Toe boots.
Safety Glasses, Ear Muffs, Gloves & Dust Masks must be supplied for all employees.
NO one is allowed on site without a Safe Pass. This is a one day training course by a certified Safety Officer. There is an exam at the end of the course and you have to pass in order to qualify for one.
Its basically about being safety conscious for both you and your fellow workers on site, being competent in your work, and knowing possible hazzards.
Only a certified scaffolder can adjust scaffolding, under no curcumstances can anyone else do this,It is a criminal offense .
When working at heights you have to wear a harness or work from a platform with a hand rail. Step ladders are banned from alot of sites.
Each contractor and subcontractor is responsible for keeping their work area tidy and responlsible for the removal of waste materials from site.
Each contractor must have a safety statement, this is basically a legal document written by a safety officer. It documents how my company will carry out all work, with safety in mind.
Examples:
Always have a First Aid Kit at hand.
Have to have a fire extinguisher at hand when welding.
How to dispose of the waste lead, I have to pay for my employees to get a blood test every six months.
All my employees have to read the safety statement so they all know how to carry out each part of the job. they then have to sign and date it. They also have to sign for All PPE (Personal Protective Equipment)(hard hats, gloves etc.)
Every time you start at a new site, you have to be given a Safety Induction, Again this is to aware all employees and contractors of the hazards and to basically refresh everyone about the safety regulations.
After the Induction, I have to write a Method Statement. This is a document stating how I will carry out the job I am contracted to do. It has to be site specific and all my employees have to read it & sign it.
I also have to give proof of my public indemnity, and employers liability Insurance.
You cannot get insured without a safety statement.
There is lot lots more mumbo jumbo, but they are the basics!
In the pic "getting there1" for example, there are some type of pipe clamps on the tops of the dormer fronts. What is that for? And the green wraps around the scaffolding ... ?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
>>>>>>>>>there are some type of pipe clamps on the tops of the dormer fronts.I think that's how the scaffolding is tied to the building. I was trying to figure it out, too.http://logancustomcopper.com
http://grantlogan.net/
It's like the whole world's walking pretty and you can't find no room to move. - the Boss
I married my cousin in Arkansas - I married two more when I got to Utah. - the Gourds
Thank for your enquiry,
The pipe clamps are just to brace the dormer gables while we did the framing. Just a precautionary measure! They have nothing to do with the scaffolding.
The green netting is another safety measure, it is to stop any debris fall off the scaffolding.
Edited 1/25/2007 4:04 pm ET by emmetnee
Emmet,
What a great looking job you folks have got going!
Thanks for taking the time to not only take all the shots,but to resize and post them. Tell your DW how much we're enjoying your thread.
Is this job staged by a sub contractor-or are you doing it as part of your work?
Walter
What type of nail is used for fastening the slates- here we use copper?
Edited 1/25/2007 5:58 am ET by theslateman
A building contractor has taken on the whole project, I am contracted in on a fixed price to do the roof framing , slating and 1st and 2nd fix carpentry.
We use copper nails also. some people use galvanised nails but I dont like them, there not as uniform as the copper ones
On some job we also hook every slate. especially on coastal areas
Edited 1/25/2007 3:50 pm ET by emmetnee
Edited 1/25/2007 3:51 pm ET by emmetnee
The castle is old but the stonework is harled, what is the stone underneath and what state is the harl in? There is a big house up the road from me that had to be harled after it went on fire but the harl at the back of the house, where the sun don't shine, is boss and in places it looks like it would fall off in sheets if given a clout.
harled ... boss ... clout
I wish y'all would speak english.
It looked to me like the face of the walls was a sand texture, like a stucco plaster.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
If you pronounce the words with a Sean Connery accent they do make sense.
Harling could be seen as a a type of stucco.
A coat of cement is applied to the wall then small stone, you would call it pea gravel, is hurled on to it and sticks in the wet cement. It is a type of weatherproofing. One alternative is to make up a thin mix of cement and small stone and throw them at the wall, again most sticks. The problems come if damp gets behind this coating of solid cement, especially if the stone underneath is sandstone, which really needs to breath. The trapped damp can freeze and the harl becomes boss - hollow - as it loses contact with the stone. If this is given a clout - hit - with a hammer it can easily peel off in sheets.
The best harls are lime harls, they allow the stone to breath and can look really nice. In Scotland these harls were coated in limewashes to give all sorts of colours from white through to reds, blues and yellows.
That method was used here for a while, mostly back in the 60-70's. I forget what it was called ... dashcrete or something. Same method: throw small rocks at wet plaster, sweep up what doesn't stick. I had to repair a column cover that was damaged by a car, and luckily found an old masonm who still knew how to do it.
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
You know you're stone!
We call it pebble dashed plaster. The oldest part of the caslte was built in Limestone. the newer part built in 1882 was built with clay bricks. The pebble dash takes away form the old age of the building. There would have been limestone mixed with plaster to allow the walls to breathe. It also allows the building to move without cracking the plaster (stucco)
Interesting. We don't have a lot of limestone over here, a few places with stuff like crude marble but only in the northwest do we get real limestone. Some of the field walls up there look very like some of the ones in Kentucky.
Have you worked with Pat McAfee?
No I haven't. Where is he from? for some reason the name sounds familiar
He is a stonemason based near Dublin and wrote the book 'Irish Stone Walls', he works a lot with lime and does training courses for repair of bridges, walls etc. Pat is currently working on a book on lime and was one of the organisers for last September's event on the Aran Isles.
wee be interested.
Emmet,
You should come to this side of the pond and make a fortune just teaching job safety.
Thank you for this thread.
Chuck S
live, work, build, ...better with wood
Edited 1/29/2007 8:45 pm ET by stevent1
I would move over there tomorrow if I got the chance!
Emmet,
I hope you'll have some more pictures for us soon.
I hope all is well and the slates arrived and the weather is helpful.
Best regards, Walter
Hi Walter & Everyone
Again my sincerest apologies for not responding sooner but I'm up the walls the past week. I didn't take the camera out all week, I really didn't have time. I will make up for it this week.
Progress is going ok. The slating is turning out to be really slow, not as I planned but it cant be helped.
Only a small % of slates we salvaged are resusable. We still did'nt get our delivery of salvaged slates from England and we really need them at this stage.
We cannot finish battening the roof until we get our slates because we dont know what the gauges are yet.
Also the cheeks of the dormers are to be done in lead, there is a nice bit of extra work in that so that will slow us down even more.
I will take pictures of that tomorrow.
As far as inside, progress is going well.
Fitted all the door frames and window boards. Will start hanging the doors tomorrow, got my door jig and router all ready for action, have 30 to hang. Will be fitting all the trim on tuesday. There in alot of pannelling to be done in the en-suites, will be starting that on Wednesday.
There is alot of work inside to do yet, will take pictures of that also.
I have to have all finished by the 20th February. The GC is handing over on the 23rd.
By the way Walter, I really liked the Chimney apron you did. I'd like to try the copper some time myself. It lies nice and flat on a roof, not as bulky as lead by the looks of things.
Emmet,
Sorry to hear about the delays in obtaining the slates needed.
We figured you must have been up against it since you haven't had time to post.
This is a tremendous thread you've gotten started here- much like Mike Smith's and Mcdesigns are- keep up the stellar craftsmanship and share with us when you're able.
Hoping your weather holds and the slates are there soon.
Best regards, Walter
What's an en-suite?
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
A room with a bath. As opposed to the bath being down the hall.