Residential architect, full-service job?
The article by the architect in a recent edition of FH gave me pause, when one fact was stated.
If you read the piece, it was about how to save money when hiring and using an architect, and in the article the author described the difference between “limited service” and “full service.”
In doing a job and going the whole nine yards, the architect will detail every single aspect of the job, provide complete specifications, manage the contractor qualification and request-for-quotations parts, then oversee the quality of construction by being on-site for complete walkthroughs and meetings, each week, start to finish.
Here is what made me wonder. The author said that for when doing a complete package for a custom home, he will render it in between 80 and 100 drawings. The article included views of drawings for the stairs in a house, rendered both “rough,” and “finished.”
They do a lot of architect-designed jobs here, that might be called “full service,” for which the drawing count is less than 40. At built costs of between $400 and $500 per square foot.
If you have been in on one of these 80- to 100-sheet jobs, tell us about it, including the usefullness of the architect’s details.
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the most I have seen was 50-60 pages.
But I wonder about the diff between drawings and pages too. There were many that had 7-8 drawings on a page.
This one that I had with so many pages was essentially unbuildable the way it was first designed and drawn so I sent it all back penciled up and noted with request for more working drawings.
In the process of forcing them to do the working drawings, they realized i was right and they adjusted some things to make it buildable.
On another that had a large number of drawings - it had elevations of every single interior wall along with some detail drawings to specify the trims, locate fixtures and recepticles, etc.
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You're likely right about the "pages" versus "drawings" distinction.
In commercial work, I've seen them dissolve quickly into doing all the details-we-forgot-to-give-you stuff on A-sized renderings, rather than issuing new E-sized sheets.
In the FH article, however, the author was giving me the impression that the drawing work, and thus the count, was all part of the preconstruction and pre-bid package, and thus all on the same sized sheets. A 100-sheet house would have a lot of detail, or at least details all envisioned and designed and specified preconstruction, by the architect.
Maybe the forum admin will relay this thread off to the architect who wrote the piece, and he can chime in here.
I gotta say, the stairs he showed rendered in the "full boat" version were finely done, and left little to the stairbuilder's discretion.
Being a Maine island guy, have you ever seen a house done on yours, designed by the architect Robert Knight, from Blue Hill?
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Name doesb't ring a bell, but the clapper in my bell is sometimes hung up.;)
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thats what quasimoto said when they wanted him to take an apprentice, "he don't ring a bell".
apparently quasimoto wasn't fond of the idea.
he will render it in between 80 and 100 drawings.
That made me pause a bit, too. Made me wonder if that's the production overhead that is being reported. Where plan changes and revisions and the like can cause a person to generate 3-4 complete drawing sets. Which, a careful person needs to manage and store, if only to have a forensic "tail" to look at what the office's true overhead is versus the billing.
The other thought was that the number reflected every itereation, including the design development, the presentation drawings, the Do it this way or Do it that way, "choose one" drawings, too.
So, my read was that it was a complete set nearer to 20 pages, but with a couple revisions, and the "here's what it will look like" images, too, which could total out close to 80-90 sheets.
At the last office, we had cranked out 19 iterations of a floor plan for an eye doctor, about a third of those with an A & B version. Call it around 30-35 drawings before even an elevation was drawn.
We did some TI work for a clinic that was similar. Wound up executing the floor plan for each doctor, and then another for their parent organization. About 20 plans to get one approved, which became 9 sheets (three of nothing but casework). Which was peachy until the newly hired boss-doc wanted an x-ray facility--right as drywall was going up, no less. That was fun, revisions went to 8 pages of the nine.
I generally assume that residential work will take four iterations to get to a bid/permit set of drawings. Not unreasonable, really. Seeing the design actually programmed out usually generates some "can we do this?" changes. That then gets priced out and then there's a "reality check" paring down version. Then there's usually a practicallity or "we rethought and really want, even at the cost" check to the plan.
"I generally assume that residential work will take four iterations to get to a bid/permit set of drawings. Not unreasonable, really. Seeing the design actually programmed out usually generates some "can we do this?" changes. That then gets priced out and then there's a "reality check" paring down version. Then there's usually a practicallity or "we rethought and really want, even at the cost" check to the plan."I think that sums up the process pretty well! Bob's next test date: 12/10/07
I think that sums up the process pretty well!
Been to that rodeo and thrown a few times, ought to have some idea what is going on, huh?
What amazes me is that the plan houses are convinced you can go straight to step four, execute only that step, and be able to do that so accurately as to charge a flat rate per s.f. without regard to fit, finish, or client desires . .
Oh wait, plan houses only have one finish level, don't sweat if it fits (in any dimension, including neighborhood style), and have only one desire fo clients: non-bouncing checks . . . Occupational hazard of my occupation not being around (sorry Bubba)