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I’m in the middle of a complete gut and remodel of my future home and am contemplating installing fire sprinklers. Finished house will be 2800 sq ft one story. Water is supplied by 2″ line @ 80 psi. Would appreciate info on number of sprinklers per room, pro/con on plastic vs copper for system, helpful installation tips and any other ideas.Thanx
P.S. I’m located in Northern CA so freezing of pipes in attic isn’t a big concern.
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Replies
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Carl,
I would suggest you contact the manufacturers and/or suppliers to help with your placement, sizing & layout for residential sprinklers. The materials and installation will vary somewhat depending on the manufacturer. There are also several things that typically are incorporated into the system to make it complete and code compliant.
I'm installing a system myself here, but have to go out of state to get the materials. Codes here require that ALL sprinkler systems be installed by licensed installers. Thus, the suppliers won't sell to non-licensed parties. It's not illegal for a home owner to install thier own system, it's just not too common.
Consider having a surge tank, alarm tie-ins, solar or battery back-up unit, etc. Again, contact the pro's and ask for help.
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A suggestion I heard that I've toyed with is a "partial" sprinkler system, say to cover the furnace room and kitchen. For those of with 3/4" service, it's more practical (2" wow!).
A complete system should at least be designed by a pro -- you're talking about a pretty important installation, and won't you be mad if it doesn't work. I'd be interested in hearing names of friendly suppliers.
*Carl:A 2" line for residential is very rare. You could have 2"i.d. water line, but the meter i.d. is the weak link in the system. In commercial use such as spray booths, a 2" water meter is required to get enough flow to make the sprinklers work, and there may only be 8 to 10 sprinkler heads in the system. A 2" water meter in the City of Richmond Public Utilities Water System will cost a minimum charge of about $275.00 per month, and that is with no water usage, just the ability to draw 2" of water. I knew small shops that would have the city remove the 2" meter and put in the 5/8" meter to save on utility bills, after they got the occupancy permit for the spray booth. Not smart! Of course the cash flow problem continued to get worse, so they went out of business anyway....sprinkler problem solved.I have only seen one new house in Stafford County with a sprinkler system. The trick to get enough flow is a holding tank of X gallons in the attic because you won't get it through the small meter or well.Years ago I saw a commercial system installed probably in the 30's or 40's in a warehouse/manufacturing building for paper cores. Since the building would be at freezing temperatures in the winter ( no need to heat stored cores), the system was filled with pressurized air. When a sprinkler head would melt, the system would depressurize causing a differential pressure valve to turn the water into the system to feed the sprinlers. The owner was trying to (and did succeed) get it operational again. The big headache was every new air leak would send the water into the pipes again.Frank
*Carl - Get a copy of the NFPA book "Automatic Sprinkler Systems Handbook" It covers all of these calculations. I spoke to my local inspector and he said he wanted to see the calculations and the FINISHED installation. He reasoned that if the calculations comply with the NFPA, and the inspector tap flows the required amount, then it passes. If I installed dummy heads, etc. then I am only endangering myself. There are a few ways to do this - 1 is to split the main in the basement. One leg goes to sprinklers, the other goes to residential. The other way is to put in a "loop" where the cold water feeds around to all of the sinks, appliances and sprinklers, then back to the main. This allows parallel piping to the sprinklers when needed. The book is helpful.-Rob
*I caution I read in the TOH article on sprinklers is to avoid "dead ends" in the sprinker loops. Critters can breed in the stagnant water, enter the potable supply, etc. True? I dunno.
*I respect your effort in looking into a residential fire sprinkler system! I wonder what it will save on your insurance premium! Personnally, I'm interested in a built-in residential fire hose that fits in a cabinet between wall studs. I've seen it before somewhere, I just can't recall the manufacturer. Please point me in the right direction if you know about residential fire hoses. I'd be interested in your comments if you have actually installed or used them.
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Frank,
Thanks for the input. Actually, I have a 4" meter servicing the property. It's 20 acres and I guess the previous owner had plans for big agricultural use. Current charges are $25 a month for the meter.
So, I don't think flow will be a limiting factor.
*andrew,That TOH article is what got me thinking about a system. I am concerned with the "dead end" stagnation, but wonder if a check valve would keep any critters at bay. I would like to do a split system, as suggested in previous post, to make installation easier. I suppose I could put a hose bib at the far end of the system and water the lawn. Perhaps that would provide enough flushing action. thanks.
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Chris,
Make up your own...it's fun to design little projects...and this one should be easy.
J
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As a follow up...
A sprinkler system is typically dedicated solely to fire suppression. It should not have any ties to the residential system, hose bibs, etc. Doing so will result in pressure drops, water hammers and other things which WILL effect the performance of your suppression system. I mentioned a surge tank earlier, this provides for sudden drops in pressure and provides the volume needed when coupled with a back-up pump.
I would really advise getting together with a professional if you really expect this system to perform (and pass an inspection). A preliminary flow and pressure test is a must, too.
In regard to meter sizing. Many municipalities allow an large unmetered connection if it's dedicated to a sprinkler system and hooked up before the domestic connection.
CONTACT AN INSTALLATION & DESIGN PRO!!!!
*As a follow up...A sprinkler system is typically dedicated solely to fire suppression. It should not have any ties to the residential system, hose bibs, etc. Doing so will result in pressure drops, water hammers and other things which WILL effect the performance of your suppression system. I mentioned a surge tank earlier, this provides for sudden drops in pressure and provides the volume needed when coupled with a back-up pump. I would really advise getting together with a professional if you really expect this system to perform (and pass an inspection). A preliminary flow and pressure test is a must, too.In regard to meter sizing. Many municipalities allow an large unmetered connection if it's dedicated to a sprinkler system and hooked up before the domestic connection.CONTACT AN INSTALLATION & DESIGN PRO!!!!
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Many years ago, when I was getting a retail storefront space remodeled for my pizza restaurant, we discovered that the sprinkler system leading in from the K-Mart next door was disconnected. (So of course the two businesses on the other side had no sprinkler system either).
When the guy was in to fix it, and some water came out, it was really black & disgusting. Would this be normal? Or do most of these systems circulate the water?
Rich Beckman
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Rich B.,
That's normal. The system is connected to the water source into the building, BUT there are check valves, pressure compensating backflow preventers and other safety and sanitation devices to prevent cross contamination. It's similar to what SHOULD be found an a boiler system's make-up water supply, especially if the boiler loop has glycol in it!
These little things are why I would suggest getting a bit of professional advice from someone familiar with what is REALLY needed to have a safe and functional system.
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So all those TV/movie scenes with the sprinkler system going off and nice clean water coming out are misleading. In reality the sprinkler goes off, everything gets wet AND dirty.
Yes?
Rich Beckman
*Actually, it saves very little - already checked!Kind of like ABS on cars - it's a miracle and saves our lives (right) but insurance gives me back $12 a year for it. Maybe I'd get $24 if I had it on the front axle too.-Rob
*The water is not necessarily dirty!!The water you saw at K-mart was black because it is in cast iron pipe! Copper water pipe may turn slightly green. But to me stagnation is a dead issue - you need inspector taps at the ends of the long runs, so add them to all of the dead ends. All it is is one ball valve!! Stagnation just behind the head is handled with CPVC pipe. Spears makes short stubs of CPVC pipe to connect to the copper header.This is one of the benefits of a combined system!! It gets flushed out at every water useage.Chad I disagree with this statement:"Doing so WILL result in pressure drops, water hammers and other things which WILL effect the performance of your suppression system." I agree that it COULD, but in my experience water hammer results from undersize pipes relative to the flow of water when it is shut off. In this case the water would be shut off at the road after the sprinklers pop, thus no hammer in the house!If the cost of dedicated versus combined was a deterrent, then I would say go with the combined, add legs wherever you want and say the hell with the inspection and the insurance savings. Testing is accomplished with a hose and bucket so you will know if it works or not.With a 2" main I doubt booster tanks and pumps are needed.Someone earlier asked about fire hoses installed in houses. These can be bought from catalogs like McMaster Carr, they are about 5" wide, pull the hose and the water automatically turns on. If this is your plan then voluntarily put yourself through fire training, or get some books on it. Fighting the fire from the wrong location can actually just cause it to spread worse. This is why you see alot of these systems being taken out of commercial buildings, and malls. The people don't know how to use them and have in some cases made it worse. If you catch the fire right away it may be no problem, but once you have it on walls and ceilings you better know what you are doing. A water hose in a kitchen is a no-no. Perhaps a commercial fire-suppression system would be better, or how about installing hangers for large fire extinguishers? Make pretty covers though or they'll soon end up in the back of a closet.-Rob
*No, only those things in the fire get wet and dirty since only the sprinklers in the fire area activate. I don't think you'll mind the wet and dirty.
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I'm in the middle of a complete gut and remodel of my future home and am contemplating installing fire sprinklers. Finished house will be 2800 sq ft one story. Water is supplied by 2" line @ 80 psi. Would appreciate info on number of sprinklers per room, pro/con on plastic vs copper for system, helpful installation tips and any other ideas.Thanx
P.S. I'm located in Northern CA so freezing of pipes in attic isn't a big concern.