Bought some land out in the boonies. No electricity close by.
There is a high voltage line planned about a mile away. I should see poles in 2 months according to the people who are to receive the power.
What does it take to get residential out of that (I think) 24KV line?
I know this is gonna vary from different power companies, but what is the actual physical equipment/process to do this?
My local power company is less than helpful. If I was to vanish I think they could go back to napping or whatever it is they’d rather be doing.
Any guess as to the cost in your area to run power poles and line about a mile? Relatively flat, with juniper & pine.
Joe H
Replies
I think the transformer, along with the foundation, fencing, etc., to step down from 24 kV to 120 V would be shockingly expensive. At work we've purchased substations to reduce 13.2 kV to 480 V, and granted, they had more breakers and such, but the cost was between $30,000 and $60,000.
just 300 ft 30 years ago for me was $179 off a 4160 line.
times distance and CPI thats about $40K today. If the 24 kV has no planned substations near on the line, you are likely out of luck even if willing to go with the price.
You will need probaly 2 transformers, one from 24 kV to 4160 for the mile run, then a 4160 to 120/240. Your billing would likely incorporated the core losses 24/7 in both transformers,.
Did part of the design for a MX missile installation in Nevada in the late 1970s, price for about 4000 sites over southern half of the state was about $300 million - big bucks.
Art, paid $3,500 5 years ago for about 350' underground & transformer from a pole at the side of my property.
No planned substations, but there are a lot of individual properties in the area that would or could some day avail themselves of power if it were available.
There is low voltage power at the highway this line would come off of, but I don't know if they will even share the same easement.
They have a set of rules they reveal one at a time as I jump through the hoops.
Might be time to think solar or just sit on it for a few years.
Joe H
Can't help with the power question, but sounds like my neck of the woods (pine & juniper that is). Where you at?John
JD, check my profile..........
Southrn Utah, this no power piece is about 15 W of Cedar City off Hwy 56.
Joe H
Joe,
I just completed a project with 34.5kv primary overhead line. The total length was about 7000'. Power Co. cut a path up to 80' wide in some places. Made the biggest mess I have ever seen.Mounted transformer on last pole. I ran conduit from service to base of pole to meet them.Total cost $54,582.00
Vince, I'm being told they need a 10' easement. There's a 66' road easement part of the way, but it's got some zigs & zags that woud add quite a distance.
It's about a mile is my best guess , IF I can get surrounding owners to grant an easement.
You had 34KV to the last pole, then stepped down to residential?
Just a regular transformer on the pole?
Vince:Was this Dominion VA Power or a local co-op?Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Frank,
AEP (Appalacian Power).
Contact your state's PUC to find out what the rules are.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Been thinking about them.
They might have some written rules at least. Power Co seems to make them up as I ask the questions.
Joe H
Yeah, they should have written rules. Be aware that they may differ depending on whether this is a commercial utility or a municipal one.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
The distribution voltage here in Virginia in all new work seems to be 34.5 KV phase to phase, which is 19.9 KV phase to ground. So all our transformers on poles and sitting on the ground near residenses are 19.9 KV transformers. 4160 V went out of favor around here in the 60's! A 24 KV line would just need a transformer at the house. Now 240 KV would need a substation!Frank DuVal You can never make something foolproof because fools are so ingenious.
Frank, The end user of this 24KV line said he thought it was 23,600V but wasn't sure, wasn't his project.
I have a work order, which will get me an appointment with an 'estimator' who will give me who knows what as to can it be done & how much.
Joe H
In my neck of the woods, I believe distribution power lines are generally 13.8kV. The transformer up on the pole outside your house steps the 13.8kV down to 120/240V. I don't know enough about what happens on the utility's side of the transformer, but I suppose it's possible that in some areas the distribution lines are at 24kV. I think the thing that's going to cost you an arm and a leg is getting them to put in a mile's worth of overhead line and poles...is there a right of way available? Will they have to clear a lot of trees and brush?
Whenever I call the local utility about extending their lines to a new construction project, I get the impression they throw out a huge cost estimate just to scare people off - if I remember correctly, for the last one (this was for a three phase service) they said it may cost as much as $5k/pole. Yikes.
Friends of my wife built a house in northern California, far from electrical lines. They found photovoltaic (sp?) to be cheaper initially, and the payback afterward is constant.
I don't have specifics about their system, but I know it's a good-sized house. Husband, wife, two children. They've been there for six or seven years and I've heard of no problems.
Off the grid is the way to go!
Allen
Allen, I have thought about solar, but here in the land of "They don't make that" I'd be re-inventing the wheel again.
How big a system do I need to flip the switch on a table saw or big planer or welder and have the lights stay on?
Joe H
To run power tools like those, I would opt for a solar/battery system, plus a diesel generator/welder. When you turn on the generator for power tools, you can top off the batteries too. Of course, it means you can't just flip a switch on a power tool, you've got to start the generator.
It may allow you to downsize your PV array, since you have a backup if you get a week of overcast weather.
Just a few thoughts on it if you end up pricing things out- I think that the battery pack required to run a couple 240v power tools would get pretty spendy.zak
"so it goes"
Zak, I'd have a gen running all day.
Not the answer unless there's no alternative.
Joe H
Joe:
e-mail me.
Re: the previous post on the MX power system, did a full trade study for the Nevada/Utah basing area proposed at the time, everything from new nuke plant and transmission lines to individual site solar.
The winner even in 1979 was solar with H2Br2 fuel cell or redox battery storage (this was for 46 kW steady load at 4600 locations.
I can send you the unclassified portions of that trade study if you are interested.
You can put together a pretty good solar system for $50K if all the labor and design is DIY.
Check out the spectrolab web site for surplus deals.
Built a 1.2 kW array 2 years ago that went onto Haleakala peak for a year, produced about 16kW-hrs per day - built to specifications for going into space, cost about $200 K installed in HI. Here is a paper on the design/build.
http://www.entechsolar.com/SPS600V.pdf
> cheaper initially, and the payback afterward is constant.
You also have to consider batteries. They'll need replacement from time to time.
-- J.S.
Yeah, that's a good point. I don't know much about photovoltaic systems, just that these friends of my wife decided it was best for them, and they've been happy with it. The husband is definitely a bright, can-do sort of guy. He designed and built (by himself) a three-masted schooner that he sailed extensively.
Allen
I know this is gonna vary from different power companies, but what is the actual physical equipment/process to do this?
Basically just install a fuse cutout/lightning arrester and a transformer rated at the needed secondary voltage.
Any guess as to the cost in your area to run power poles and line about a mile? Relatively flat, with juniper & pine.
Varies from power company to power company. Around here (midwest) rural electric coop only wants to see a hole in the ground to know you are serious about building a new residence and they will run a mile power line for free. With the investor owned utilities it is a different story. They typically have long drawn out formulas based on if it is revenue justified, etc...all depends on the individual company.
Basically just install a fuse cutout/lightning arrester and a transformer rated at the needed secondary voltage.
When I asked about coming off the 24KV line they said I'd have to build a sub station. Nothing as simple as hanging a transformer on a pole.
Joe H
but what is the actual physical equipment/process to do this?
Usually just transformers. "How much" transformer is usually the issue. Followed by overhead versus u/g service. The utility may just want to put "cans" on an "H" pole rig.
They might want a pad-style xfmr for a big drop, which could be a bit more complicated.
Like as not, they will not tap the HV distribution line you can see. They will, instead, look at their map for the nearest substation of that distribution, and then, no doubt, quote some outrageous figure for running poles and cable to your location. Some utilities may do this by using a computer program and not common sense--so you might get quoted numpteen miles from that-away, and there's a substation just 2 miles over the other side of the ridge from you.
You may have to go digging to get ahold of as much of the line info you can from public records, just to know if you are being put off.
To all who contributed, Update time.
Tomorrow I meet with the company surveyor & see what's up.
After much pestering they found a line that is about 1000' from the property. I had seen it from the highway, but discounted it as a possible because of the distance by road. It's several miles SW on the highway, then back NE on county gravel, then 3/4 mile of dirt to the property. Deceiving driving it.
Turns out it's actually just over the 6400' ridge that is at the rear of my parcel. It's a climb up there, couple hundred feet of fairly steep terrain. I had not been up there before or I would have seen it, it's only a few hundred yards down the ridge.
Hope the power company has trained monkeygoats to haul poles & dig holes. Lot of rock up there too, it's gonna be a SOB for sure.
Costs are $800 for survey, $400 paper work to submit to BLM and $1000 fee to BLM for an easement over their land. The line I'm tapping is on BLM land in an area open to traffic so hope no artifacts or endangered goddammits live there.
Cost quote for line are $2000 to $2500 per pole, poles 250' to 300' apart. Transformer $2000 to $2500 too.
Guessing the poles to get over this ridge are going to be more, but will know for certain after survey & estimate from Utah Power.
Making progress. Spending money.
Joe H
Update more.
Met Surveyor & Estimator at the property today 8AM.
Drove around the area & found a place to set up his base station and left. Went back this aft and walked around looking for any signs of survey markers.
Found Surveyor back at the corner & talked with him.
It's 270' to the top of the ridge from road level. Rock ledge is what the ridge is, it'll need blasting to set poles he says.
No real answers from him as to can it be done or cost.
So, spent $800 and know nothing new except for height of ridge from front of property.
Joe H