Residential urinal drain requirements…
I’d like to install a urinal in my bathroom. I’m replacing a large vanity with two sinks with a smaller vanity with one sink. That will leave me with more than enough room for a urinal.
The two existing sinks drain into a single 2″ ABS drain pipe. There’s an ABS cross fitting in the wall where the 2″ drain connects to two 1 1/2″ drain lines (one for each sink) and a 1 1/2″ vent pipe.
Can I connect my urinal to the same 2″ drain pipe that my sink will drain into?
It seems to me that I’d at least want to get rid of the cross and have them drain into the pipe at different heights (with the sink drain higher than the urinal drain). But I’m asking because I’m not sure if there are rules concerning urinal and toilet drain pipes needing to be separate from sink and other drain pipes.
I’d appreciate any info and advice!
Replies
WHY would you want a urinal???????????????
Point a hose at a wall and turn it on. What happens????????????
You're just wasting space with a response like that. Urinals aren't just a flat piece like a wall. They are obviously useful to a great many people or they wouldn't sell.
If anyone has an answer to my question, I'd sure appreciate it.
It drains like a sink, 1 1/2" and I'm pretty sure that you can cross it into a sink.(and I'm a plumber but I do residential work and have only ever installed one urinal.) I like your idea about it being below the sink but I don't believe code treats it any different than a sink.------------------
"You cannot work hard enough to make up for a sloppy estimate."
I'm a plumber. Not many residential urinals are sold. One of my favorite jobs is removing urinals so we can acid clean the traps.
You want one, knock yourself out, but they are a flat wall.
The height will depend on the rough in height, and you don't have a sink in a bathroom.
Edited 11/14/2007 11:22 pm ET by rich1
Thanks for the answers.
Okay, so I have a lavatory in the bathroom. I take it you're highlighting the distinction because a "sink" in a bathroom isn't intended for food preparation like a sink in the kitchen? I would like to know the proper terminology.
The urinal I'm looking at is more than a flat wall. It comes out at the bottom, kind of like the one that the guy sits on in the movie Kingpin (thinking it was a regular toilet).
If I have to acid clean the trap every so often, I can do that. Couldn't you just periodically flush acid through the urinal?
A friend here recently had a house built with a urinal, complete with window at appropriate height so he could enjoy the view out. Far as he was concerned it was a little luxury that was very affordable.
No idea what the drain situation is.
Here's a detail I liked (that his doesn't have):PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
A friend here recently had a house built with a urinal, complete with window at appropriate height
I didn't know you could get a urinal with a window. Peella must make them.
I've been to Amsterdam's airport a couple of times and wondered what the fly was for.
now dat's funny !Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
<<<<
Unless I were to decide to sit down to urinate. I have a friend whose wife insists he do that. I'd sooner die.
>>>
careful what you wish for....
sounds like youth...
most men will NOT be able to write their name in the snow after the age of 55 or soMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Ain't that the truth! I can still write my initials though.Also, I can write them more often!
And it takes a lot longer !!
A small, unexpected act of kindness, goes a long way.
I would like to know the proper terminology. Lavatory.
I had a friend who bought a house with a urinal in his bathroom. He enjoyed it, and the wife thought it was a useful item after she got over the initial surprise. It's your house, go for it."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
A sink doesn't have an overflow. A basin does. Lot's of bad stuff grows in overflows.
If you do get one, make sure you can access the trap from the top.
Thanks to everyone for the responses.
I haven't looked into this much. What do you mean when you suggest I be sure I can access the trap from the top?
I've been reading a lot about the waterless urinals. It seems they trap the sediment which would do away with a lot of the build-up concern.
One cartridge would last a year or more, and I'd only need to spray and wipe down the urinal every day or so. For me, this will be a lot cleaner and involve less splashing than a toilet. Unless I were to decide to sit down to urinate. I have a friend whose wife insists he do that. I'd sooner die.
"I have a friend whose wife insists he do that. I'd sooner die."Or just change your name to Scott Peterson
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
We are just starting to look at waterless. If your basin drains into the same line, and can flush that line, I don't see a problem. Be great for a septic system.
Some urinals just have small holes in the bottom. Others are full size. Makes for easier cleaning if you have a choice.
Edited 11/15/2007 6:04 pm ET by rich1
"Unless I were to decide to sit down to urinate. I have a friend whose wife insists he do that. I'd sooner die."Many men would feel emasculated (see the movie "About Schmidt"), but most men don't clean their bathrooms. The truth is (you can find books with pictures) that peeing in a toilet splashes a lot, and if you don't clean regularly the acid will corrode everything in sight. No problem if you like wiping up the wall and floor around the toilet regularly, but if you sit to pee you'll never have to clean the bathroom. I don't remember whether urinals are better or worse, and it probably depends a lot on the design.
That's how I think too. I do clean the bathroom and I don't like the thought of all that splashing going on. I'd have to get a bucket and sponge every time I peed....Maybe if someone was a dwarf.... FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
Or a horse.
i'm aware of a setup, i think european, with a flap that hinges downward to reveal an opening in the wall into which one can pee.
no splash because it's into a 'hole in the wall' and when the flap is raised back up against the wall, it flushes.a friend's neighbor, who is an electrician, installed one in his backyard cabin and he is basically the only one who uses it.
minimal water usage and it mounts flush to the wall, with the rest inside the wall cavity.i have yet to see this thing and wondering why nobody is mentioning such a setup.any ideas?(i am not making this up, by the way.)
any ideas?
Yup. 68 posts about a urinal?
I kinda like stepping outside and enjoying the scenery. No splash back if you pay attention to the wind. But we have pretty mild winters.
As bumper stickers used to say "Don't eat yellow snow".PAHS Designer/Builder- Bury it!
A few years ago there was a new product anouncement on a folding urinal. But apparently it never got off the ground. However, there seems to be a new one.Did a google and found a number of blog dated Oct 2007 point to this.http://mistermiser.net/index.htmlSo there must be a new one out..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
Thank-you for the digging up the Mr. Miser info!
I had no luck finding it on the internet.That fits the description that was given to me by my friend to a tee.Not sure if I would install that in a bath that is frequented by many different users or visitors.Thanks again.
Edited 11/18/2007 10:05 am ET by AhneedHelp
As a youth, I noticed the "splash back" effect while wearing shorts (or nothing), and ever since then I've often sat. Who wants that splatter all over one's trouser legs? And the bathroom definitely stays cleaner ... especially now that my sons are off to college (never could convince them of the benefits of sitting, but, then, they never cleaned the bathroom, either).
Unless you have either very short legs or a very tall toilet, kneeling will also work to minimize the splash - and it makes life a lot easier when one is wearing coveralls. It is a little harder on geezer knees, however.
Yea man whenever I use a dang urinal I have to stand waaaay back cause of the 'splash back'.
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
must need a larger hose... To much pressure in the smaller one ;)
we're gonna go there are we? I've got a high volume-high pressure hose buddy!
Daniel Neumansky
Restoring our second Victorian home this time in Alamdea CA. Check out the blog http://www.chezneumansky.blogspot.com/
Oakland CA
Crazy Homeowner-Victorian Restorer
>>>Yea man whenever I use a dang urinal I have to stand waaaay back cause of the 'splash back'.
Hahahaha. That reminds me of a story. I'm standing side by side at the urinals with another guy who was wearing shorts. He keeps moving further and further backwards whilst trying to maintain enough pressure to land in said urinal. He was kind of grimacing as he did this. "That's a nice trick." I said. He replied, "You're splashing on my legs!!!"
Scott.Always remember those first immortal words that Adam said to Eve, “You’d better stand back, I don’t know how big this thing’s going to get.”
Reminds me of the scene in "up in smoke" where Chong is peeing on Sgt. Sidanko's leg
so you're a plumber, but you won't actually answer the guy's questions other then with snide sarcastic remarks... way to go champ
are you a dick everyday, or is today speacial?
I had similar thoughts about his response, but after HudsonValley chastised me I thought I would hold back. It's your turn to wear the shining armor."Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
Pot, meet kettle.
Urinals tend to be messy. You get "splashback". Rough in height depends on size of urinal.
Where you tie in the urinal drain in relation to the basin "may" depend on local code, bigger issue is the rough in for the urinal is probably higher than the basin.
Considering my name, I'm a "Dick" everyday. Anything else?
....bigger issue is the rough in for the urinal is probably higher than the basin....Dosen't compute, show me!!
Basin rough in is what 16" - 18". A small residential urinal may be 20 - 24. Looking at a Crane rough in book, range is from 16 to 24. Might not be a problem. Hard to tell. My code allows urinal above another drain, I can only asssume his does too. Hate making assumptions.
I don't think that you are reading the urinal rough-in spec. correctly, I think they are refering to the flood rim, not the drain.
Trust me, I can read a spec. Flood rim is even higher.
"Urinals tend to be messy."Ur urinals might beUrinals are not messy. The users sometimes are, but the urinal itself is no more messy than any other porcelain product.Your experience with calcium is no doubt in commercial locations where flushes are fewer and the cakes add to the build up. An individual in a residence who aims and flushes can probably go all his life without the problems you fear.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
There are other options besides the "flat wall" type.
For instance....
------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
Now that one makes a splash just sitting there.
Probably the nicest looking urinal I've ever seen. I'd hate to have the job of keeping it polished though!------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
... WHY would you want a urinal???????????????... If you have more boys and you are on a septic system. BTW anyone that uses acid in a plumbing system is living in a time warp!!....................................
"If all else fails, read the directions"
"BTW anyone that uses acid in a plumbing system is living in a time warp!!"True.I would think that in residential use, pouring half a bottle of CLR into the trap once a year, and letting it sit there at least overnight before rinsing, should do it.It's not like this guy's urinal is going to see the traffic that a commercial one does...
A small, unexpected act of kindness, goes a long way.
Unless there is a specific reason to dump chemicals in a sanitary system I would not do it, and if you mix them they can cause major damage, your call. Have a good one......................................
"If all else fails, read the directions"
So, you never clean -anything- with anything other than plain old tapwater ???
A small, unexpected act of kindness, goes a long way.
The key word is REASON, I try to not make categorical statements.
Just categorical enough to make it look like you are scolding someone for giving bad information/advice...;o)Using CLR the way I suggested -is- within reason. Probably not necessary. But as reasonable as using CLR to clean the bathtub, shower, sink, urinal, et al, in a bathroom. And/or using it to clean glass stuff in the kitchen.I was not suggesting that the OP "dump chemicals in a sanitary system, without a specific reason." Nor did I even come -close- to suggesting he mix any chemicals.You set up a strawman, and you knocked it down. Did you just feel an especial need to pat yourself on the back today, by unjustly insinuating someone else was wrong, or do you always do this in your posts ?
A small, unexpected act of kindness, goes a long way.
By the way...I'm chuckling over here.;o)Do your ribs feel poked yet ?
A small, unexpected act of kindness, goes a long way.
Still working on your other reply, don't have a clue what ;o) means.
That is a smilie.Well, that particular one is a wink.Don't take that other post seriously.If you have, I guess it did it's job a bit too well.It's an illustration of just how easy it is to take things the wrong way on a forum. Your post came across in a certain way. I don't think you intended to communicate what it seemed you meant to. I responded in pretty much the same way, as an illustration of what yours looked like. I am better at illustrations than explanations...Apparently I am not all that good at illustrations, either. LOL
A small, unexpected act of kindness, goes a long way.
Can't find it on my list, ;-) or ;) no ;o) still confused, duh.
Actually, I prefer rydlyme. Acts like acid, is food grade and you can actually stick your hand in it. Doesn't stink either.
Man oh man! That sounds like a response a dumb plumber would make.Step aside and make room for the smarter plumbers here. Please.
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Trust me. I am a dumb plumber. If I am so smart, why am I doing this?
JDLee,
I installed one for a client two years ago. If I remember correctly, it was an 1 1/2 drain. The man's wife was the one who requested it. He was very tall, and the splash up from the toilet was making a mess. It was a little awkward when she asked what height it should be. Instead of saying "You probably know better than I do!",I waited until she left the room, stood facing the wall it was going on, and tried to picture myself 1 1/2 ft taller:) I'm sure they must conserve water, compared to a toilet. I can't seem to talk my wife into letting me install one in my own bathroom. She said they are always's dirty and smell. At this point I am more concerned as to why she has so much experience with men's bathrooms than I am about installing the urinal ;)
northeastvt
I may be wrong but I think you will also need a drain in the floor.
Running off memory, lav is 1 plumbig unit, and urnial is 1, so that ought to be an even swap. Ought to have a vent off of it, same as a lav.
My ada chart on the wall shows 14" max to top of the projecting lip of the urinal, and 44" max to the flush valve. The fixture you use will determine if your drain rough-in is either too high or too low (same for the supply).
Only other issue leaps to my mind is in the capping & abandoning the h/w supply at the former lav. Could be, in 25 or 50 years down the line, someone wants 2 lavs i nthe bathroom--might be easier if the h/w was already "there," might not.
Go for it JD.
I've had the TOTO auto flush urinal for about a year now. It's a little touch of affordable luxury. This one flushes by itself once every 24 hours if no one uses it.
Sorry I can't help with the drain question.............. I just left it to my plumber. All's I know is that it works, and is on a drain line with the washer and the sink.
Rod
I put one in a bath I built i my old house. It was great, and used less water than the toilet.
Mike
....just reading through here.....Man can you guys get pissey! ;)...The unspoken word is capital. We can invest it or we can squander it. -Mark Twain...
Be kind to your children....they will choose your nursing home.
...aim low boys, they're ridin' shetland ponies !!
you shouldn't have a problem tie'n it into the same drain as your sink... ( i mean lav) or you could just pee in the sink... btw...gentleman remove the dishes before they do...
i just roughed in 2 for my place... one in mine and one in my 4yo sons bathroom... for his i found one of the long units so that it won't have to be moved as he grows up... for mine i got the urnal and found the "perfect placement" I don't want to know the water temp in the bottom while i use it.... (two little boys pee'n in the river... one says... wooooo this water is cold... while the other says... yeah and DEEP too)...
i did plumb mine with 3/4 supply lines and pretty sure we used 2" drain... maybe because these were commercial units...
the waterless units can not be used here per code... might want to check that if anyone is going to inspect it...
i've heard some chicks like to use urnals... never seen it ... but... sounds interesting... for the curious minds...
p
To each his own, as to fixture choices. works good fer me.
But I gotta ask... Has anyone seen a bathroom with both a urinal and a bidet?
Bidets confuse me
i had a bidet drawn into my wifes rest room... but took it out... everyone i know who had one... had it removed... pretty sure thats how i got the one i have in my warehouse
p
Couple years back I was in a wholesale seconds building store kind of place and there it was ...a new greenish Kohler bidget with gold hardware sitting there unwanted as all get out and the same color as two Kohler toilets I already had so it was like 'HEY! A matching set!' so I got it.
Been sitting in a shed ever since.
be but ya never know....
You make you wife go out to the shed for her bidet?!!!!You ARE da man!!!!! FKA Blue (eyeddevil)
and she never came back nor has she been seen since...
Life is not a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming<!----><!----><!---->
WOW!!! What a Ride!Forget the primal scream, just ROAR!!!
Maybe that's why I'm not married. Most women don't like walking barefoot in the snow at 3am.
be an eskimo
LOL... i'm not going there
p
OK I'm not gettin into the pissin match------all pun intended.
I am a commercial plumber, did you get your answer or still have questions?
Ask away if you have any.
"If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin
Hi Bill
I think that I have the answers I need. This work won't be inspected, and I will stay in this house for the rest of my life, so I'm not particularly concerned with my local codes. I am concerned with what meets code in general in the sense that I want to make sure what I'm doing is safe and will function properly.
I live in a particularly mild climate (San Diego). I know that some building codes are different here out of necessity for earthquake safety, and I respect those. But I don't care if my locality has approved PEX or waterless urinals yet (as long as both are being used succesfully in residences).
My main concern was the drain, and it appears I'll be fine using the one that is there.
I do need to decide between waterless and regular, but it seems I won't go wrong either way.
Here is one that does not need any plumbing..
.
A-holes. Hey every group has to have one. And I have been elected to be the one. I should make that my tagline.
What is it, a virtual urinal?
Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!
Standard urinals rim heights are 7" above the drain & require a 2" drain.
Exposed trap urinals use a 1.5" trap & trap arm just like a sink, but you need 9" from rim height to the drain outlet.
Waterless urinals use a chemical trap that allows urin to pass by without siphoning the trap, but have no washdown capability. You end up with urin that's not getting washed off. I'm not a big fan of the waterless type, & I have installed about 50 of them.
"If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?" Benjamin Franklin
I've used acid in urinals before. It was at a small school for young kids and they never flushed. If you flush once in a while it shouldn't build up that fast if at all.
In Los Angeles County, California, each fixture has its own drain, vent, and cleanout until you get beyond the fixture. Each fixture's drain runs back to the main line which is either a 3 or 4 inch line. I have never seen a 2 inch line allowed to be a main line. The vent lines can also be combined into one 3 inch line once they get above the maximum fill line for each fixture allowing for only one penetration through to the roof.
I've never seen a urinal in a residential bathroom, but I suppose that there may be good reasons for having one.
I don't think, however, that I would want to see one next to the sink unless there's one of those partitions between them.
I wouldn't do this in my home. Some of my low class friends would probably forget where they were and carve something obscene on the partition - or ask for a Sharpie so they could publish the phone number of the pole dancer at their favorite T&A joint. - lol
Really 77 posts on this - WOW.
I have one and I love it.
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I like the ones with water in them like a toilet, not the ones that are dry when empty. I think I get less splash back pi$$ing in the water.
The other great thing about your own urinal is that you know it is clean so you don't mind if you get close enough that your pant legs are touching the outer surfaces.
I was very particular about the flusher. It had to be the lever kind, not the PB.
I also spec'd one with the integral trap.
I would not futz with waterless, but I might consider the auto flush.
I am still trying to decide what picture to hang above it.
This pic shows the half bath. The urinal is behind the wall next to the toilet. The sliding door you see in that same pic connects to my home office. If we have the home office sealed up for cigar smoking (bath fan in office for that, too), I did not want to have to go around to the other door.
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(yes, I know, the trim is not painted yet)
Here are some picture ideas.------------------------------------
It would indeed be a tragedy if the history of the human race proved to be nothing more than the story of an ape playing with a box of matches on a petrol dump. ~David Ormsby Gore
That's a hoot! Great pics. Unfortunately, the pic over mine would be laughing ;-)
Thanks for posting your pics.
Very nice setup and that could be the ticket for us.
I like your requirements for an integral trap, water in the bowl and the lever flush.After getting a better look at the Mr. Miser and how much it costs ($300, about as much as a Toto Drake), I've decided against it.
A bit over priced for something that's made mostly out of plastic, even if it uses only 10-oz of water that shoots out of jets.We have three pre-teenage boys and things are about to go nuts in coming years so a urinal, even if it ends up getting ripped out later, is a serious consideration.
Where to put the thing might be the bigger headache than installing and using one.
I seem to recall that several years ago some company was "working on trying to develop a waterless urinal"....
I also seem to recall that I have several in my yard..... 3 Oaks, 2 Maples and a Birch tree.
yup, that's the first thing i did after getting away from a home owners' association run neighborhood - fertilized one of the trees at our next home in an older neighborhood, at night, that is.as for urinals, waterless is out of the question.
At the risk of having this thread drag on......
Saw this urinal in a catalog yesterday. Look at the steward waterless.
http://www.ca.kohler.com/onlinecatalog/product_result.jsp?module=Commercial%20Urinals&category=30&subcategory=24
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Edited 12/9/2007 9:45 pm ET by rich1
At $700 a pop I'd be afraid to pee in it.