How do you handle the call of nature during a job?
We are doing a bathroom job right now. For various reasons, the Owner requested that we not use another functioning bathroom because of the amount of disturbance it would cause them.
Our options are to hold it or get a porta-potty. Maybe there’s another way, I don’t know.
It seems like this is an issue we come across frequently. Let’s say we’re doing work in the bathroom of a house where the only other bathroom is in the master bedroom. I really don’t relish the idea of putting down floor protection and having the workers use the facilities as needed, it seems to be too intrusive.
The alternative is a porta-potty, which is ugly, may get in the way on site, and costs money. Some customers are very much against having one in their front yard, and I can’t say that I blame them.
So what’s the golden solution (pardon the pun) that you’ve come up with?
Replies
Access to a washroom or covering the cost of a pj is part of my basic agreement with customers - it's in the contract that we go over before the start date. I have occasionally waived it when a restaurant or something is nearby and I really really REALLY like the people, but that's an exception.
There are rarely more than 3 people on my jobs at any one time, so maybe that makes a difference. It might be harder to expect if there were half a dozen of us.
Now that you're in the middle of a project ... I don't know.
j
All my contracts have this little clause
C) Customer agrees to allow access to a bathroom, otherwise customer agrees to the added cost of a Porta-John rental and it’s placement on their property.
While I empathise with the client, I will never be told again to leave a project and go down the street to Quick Trip if I need to pee.
I always have a portable if the job lasts more than a few short days. We don't use the customer's bathrooms.
If our projects last for more than a few days or a week, we just order in a portajohn. It eliminates any issues of the crew using and messing the client bathroom and any possible tension with client-although we usually leave places cleaner than we found them.
We had one client that I found out was borderline OCD and she nearly went over the edge when the bathroom we were using had a drop of pee on the toilet rim (not the seat).
Got a portajohn the next day.
Bruce
We had one client that I found out was borderline OCD and she nearly went over the edge when the bathroom we were using had a drop of pee on the toilet rim (not the seat).
Should have left a big growler in the thing....
Agree. Get a porta john. It's a job cost. We all deserve to work with dignity.
John
I should have stated in my original post that we do have a clause that states that we will charge the customer for the rental unless the contract already has a portable specifically included.I guess it's just a messy activity and, no matter how you handle it (customers bathroom, portable, catheter), there will be some undesirable aspects.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Can't remember where I saw it, but someone built a little shed around the portable. I guess another option is to toss one on a trailer and tow it to and from the job daily. Highway crews usually have 'em on wheels.
There's a sloshy thought. I don't want to follow you down the highway.
No biggie, you send the laborer in there with the wet/dry vac before you move it.
Bathroom built into job trailer. I have a porta john service empty it or head to a campground and use the dump station there (it's plumbed like a r.v.)for $5:00.
Good idea!
last I looked a PP was about $100.00 for a month.
Not exactly gonna break the bank.................
They're ~$100/mo here for twice monthly cleaning, $170/mo for weekly. The thing that does suck is when you need it for 3-4 days, and it's still $100. You do a half dozen jobs like that in a month and you get a bill for $600.
"last I looked a PP was about $100.00 for a month.Not exactly gonna break the bank................."You're right.BTW- Can I borrow $100 from you Eric?It's not just the money, although if I could save $100 on every job, I would. Wouldn't you?PP's look ugly and smell bad (some of the time). Like I said, some people don't want one on their property and I can understand where they're coming from.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
Build it in to the job.
If they don't want to see it then you gotta use the house facilities.
$100 month,
Last one we rented, $70 to drop off, $70 to pick up $120 a month. Drop off & pick-up waived if rented for 6 months or better.
I do agree, should include in bid, if job is more then a few days.
To top off what most everyone has stated so far, having a porta potty on site is in the building code requirements too. Get with the program Mr/Ms Contractor!
"To top off what most everyone has stated so far, having a porta potty on site is in the building code requirements too. Get with the program Mr/Ms Contractor!"Can you quote the exact wording that says that?IK seriously doubt that it has requirments for a porta potty.A porta potty might be one way of meeting those requirments. But I doubt that it is required..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
Look into the OSHA rules, not Building codes or the B.O. area to deal with. http://www.google.com/search?q=OSHA+rules+on+jobsite+toilets&ie=utf-8oe=utf-8&aq=trls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-####
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
From what I saw on OSHA they don't require porta potties..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
You are correct I believe.
They simply require that a rest room facility be with reasonable distance ( 10 minutes maximum travel or wait to use it .)
They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.
Local ordinances cover it here as prerequsite to passing inspections. Not part of the code but enforeable just as much.
Had a discussion here on BT with someone a while ago and his position that OSHA required it to, might've been a link as well. My position was that it was useless on residential being as we're likely to never see OSHA. The BI on the other hand...
I would still like to see the documentation where a BI requires a porta potty..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
just got done looking. I used to be able to find it at the county web site but since they reorganized it I can't find it there anymore. And I looked pretty thoroughly too. The BI's here enforce it so I'll ahve to ask them to find the ref next time.
See item #1,
http://www.lakecountyco.com/buildinglanduse/sites/lakecountyco.com.buildinglanduse/files/Affidavit.doc
Exactly.It does not require porta potties.PP are only one way to meet the requirements..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
You would ask that. I've seen it and as things always go, I can't seem to find the code section but know that in most jurisdictions, a portable toilet is required as part of the building permit process. ie..you have to have one or no permit can/will be issued. This goes right along with Chapters one (Administration sections)of most codes. One that I found was 2003 IRC (one and two family dwellings) section R107 Temp structures...Conformance... structures to protect public health. The codes, as you probably know, are to protect health and safety and sanitation is right up there with protecting the public health. If you've got a crew of any size at all, using the homeowners toilet isn't going to fly far in the permit process.Here's an example from the city of Roswell, Georgia All City Construction Sites All city construction sites both commerical and residential shall provide toilet facilities for construction workers and such facilities shall be maintained in a sanitary way. Single-family Residential Construction Sites One unit may serve workers during the “active construction process†for up to four (4) work sites, if all work sites are within 200 feet walking distance of the unit. The building inspector will not inspect/approve any inspection unless the non-sewered toilet system is within 200 feet and available for use. Location, sanitary maintenance, and use of a unit is the responsibility of the “builder of record†of the lot on which the unit is located. City construction sites found in violation of health regulations listed above, in the opinion of a city building inspector, will be issued a “complimentary†Notice of Violation stating “NO NSTSâ€, which will be attached to your building permit yard card. After placing this complimentary notice of violation on the permit yard card, the city inspector will leave the site without performing the requested inspection. There will be no exceptions to this position. The burden of compliance will remain with the permit holder. As a guideline to help permit holders quickly gain compliance with Health Department and city regulations, the Building Official offers the following advice for proper placement and maintenance of portable toilets, so as not to delay construction schedules due to non-compliance to NSTS requirements: *
Portable toilets shall be installed in a reasonably level position and be easily accessible to users.
*
Portable toilets shall not be located upon any street or public right-of-way in Roswell.
*
Portable toilets shall be located upon natural ground and not on an impervious surface such as asphalt or concrete.
*
Portable toilets must be located on buildable lots with written permission of the property owner.
*
* Portable toilets located within one- and two-family dwelling unit subdivisions must be located within 200 feet walking distance of the construction which it serves.Owners of property containing portable toilets are responsible for maintaining the portable toilets in a sanitary condition at all times.
* Portable toilets must be cleaned and serviced by a licensed Non-Sewer Toilet System (NSTS) service at least once per week, or more frequently as needed to maintain a sanitary use environment.
* Portable toilets shall be placed at least one hundred (100) feet from any body of water and installed in such a way as to insure that there is no possibility of a spill or run-off into any body of water.
* In cases where multiple builders or contractors are working in one subdivision, the city strongly urges all builders in that subdivision to meet and agree among themselves, where to initially locate portable toilets and then mutually agree where to relocate the portable toilets as construction progresses to maintain compliance.
All city construction sites both commerical and residential shall provide toilet facilities for construction workers and such facilities shall be maintained in a sanitary way."Exactly.It says toilet facilities, not porta potties.Now there are all kinds of different types of construction. In some cases PP might be appropriate.But I like the job that I did last month it would be crazzy. Replaced toilet wax seal, garbage disposals, stop valves, drains, and faucets on 2 basins, but I should bring in a PP.Or when I do interior painting which includes the bathroom..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
I see that Bill already dealt with your comment, but if you're going to be condescending than you should know what you're talking about.
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
If the job lasts over a week, you need a porta potty. For quick jobs, carry a milk jug and take a long enough lunch to find a public restroom.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
I thought that is what DW mud buckets where for..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
we always offer to include a porta-potty... but if it's just us..
i usually inquire if they have a bathroom they would like us to use and tell them it will reduce the cost of the job..
but if i detect any resistance .. then we go with the p-p anyways
however... if there are going to be a lot of strangers on the job... or there is no bathroom
then we include the porta-potty without any discussion.... noting like some jamoke going thru the medicine cabinet.. or pizzin on the floor
Ah do what the bears do when real estate is available.
Milk jugs as mentioned is also valid for either #1 or #2.
So you create your own potty-molitoffs to use againts yer competition should a rowe ensew, eh?
You can do a dump into a milk jug? A clean hit and put the top on after?
Man, you do got your scheet together more than I...
Jon,
we work at a different location every day or two-- a week in one location is FOREVER for us.
Porta potty-- not really feasible
our projects are rarely more than 5-6 blocks from a public park with facilities, a restraunt-whatever.
I do NOT let workers in the customers house to use the customers bathroom--period--even if the customer offers it.
we start 7:30-8:00- we take short break at about 9:30-10:00---- the guys can run out and use a restroom somewhere if they have to.------same thing at lunch---same thing middle of the afternoon.
I am 46----- most of the guys are typically under 30
If I can hold it 2 hours- they can hold it 2 hours---usually nobody has to go untill lunchtime.
frankly-- you are out in the sun--sweating like a pig-------- you don't really have to go.
some guys never go---- other guys-- as soon as they find out that i don't dock them for potty breaks--- suddenly have to go 2-3 times a day----and it is ALWAYS the ones with other issues as well----- so eventually they are sent down the road===permanently.
and if I catch you peeing behind the customers garage-- you don't work for me anymore.
That's just the way it is----- if they wanted a job with a nice bathroom-- they shoulda got a job in a "cubicle farm"
stephen
Not to sound crude but if worse comes to worse, I keep a bottle in the truck. It rarely gets used but sometimes.........
I dont like using customers other toilets either and usually there is a store nearby wherever were working.
Family.....They're always there when they need you.
I've used a chem toilet in the basement of the house in the utility room. Was able to close off a section just for us. Only two of us, not a whole gang.
how do I handle it?
I go to the bathroom!
usually use theirs.
I have tarps ... and don't work with apes ... so it's never a problem.
longer jobs or jobs where I want the help out of the house as much as I want the owners out of the jobsite I plastic it off tight and get a portapotty.
I'm not a 2nd or 3rd class citizen ... don't work with 2nd or 3rd class subs ...
and going to the bathroom is a fact of life.
Jeff
Buck Construction
Artistry In Carpentry
Pittsburgh Pa
The alternative to washroom is "shrubs." ;-)
In all seriousness, I'm with everyone else: get a portable.
Here's one of the downsides of a portable:View ImageYou can read all about it here.
Jon Blakemore
RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
downside is a good description..
William the Geezer, the sequel to Billy the Kid - Shoe
We almost never use a customer's toilet. We get a porto-potty. It's a job cost built into our estimate. If I want to know how long the boss thinks a job will last I check how many months he has in there for a job toilet (and then I add a month!)
Here ya go, men. Just the thing.
View Image
Goes right into your 2 x 2 receiver
Edited 2/12/2009 5:42 pm ET by GregGibson
What speed is that rated to?
Jon Blakemore RappahannockINC.com Fredericksburg, VA
I'd have to unhook my trailer... I know some guys that would use that right out in the customers nice concrete drive.
There are few things nearer to my thoughts than the location of a toilet on a job.
Let me put it this way ... back in '92 I broke my back. Since then ... when nature calls, she isn't going to ring twice! A trip to the McD's down the road just might not be quick enough.
Our rules here require some manner of facilities on any job, and oblige the general to provide it if it isn't there already. Regardless, I have been on many jobs where there was no toilet, where the toilets were locked up, or where the toilet repair was literally the LAST task arranged by the general.
So .... time to look out for #1. A 6 gallon bucket (like a 5 gal, only taller), a seat from a camping supply store, some plastic bags and kitty litter. And the general gets a contribution to his trash trailer. Oh, that's right ... the same marginal GC probably doesn't have any provision for trash, either.
Otherwise ... hey, I'm just as human as Jesus ... and I expect a toilet of some sort. Just as I expect some manner of trash management. Jobs that don't have these necessities are either declined - or get charged more. LOTS more. After all, I have to cover my time for trips away from the site. If there's any doubt, I'll bring it up, quite bluntly, in the first job meeting.
I have zero tolerance for those who consider the trades as less human than the family pet.
On the flip side ... I truly wish we had fewer in the trades without basic manners. I can do without the 'poetry' some can't resist writing / carving on the walls. I wonder about those who haven't learned to flush. And, I must say, entering a restroom that has just been used for drug use really fills me with confidence!
Everyone above pretty much covered everything. For the last house I built for myself I had one sitting out front for the duration. What's interesting is I live in a "teardown and rebuild" neighborhood so there's usually one or two per block. I had guys on other jobs on the street as well as walkers and joggers use mine all the time.
BTW, mine cost about $80/month.
Runnerguy