Retrofitting for Central Heating?
MichaelW
| Posted in Energy, Heating & Insulation on
Hello,
My mother lives in an 1800 square foot house in a rural area. She is heating with wood but is getting older and this is becoming more difficult for her. The house is two stories with a large crawl space underneath. There is a lot of circulation between the floors because one of the rooms opens all the way to the updstairs.
My question is whether there is a way to retrofit her home with central heating or whether some kind of space heating would be better. She has some appliances that run on propane. She saw an ad for some kind of quartz infrared space heater for $500 but it seemed like a lot of hype to me.
Any recommendations?
Thank you!
Replies
Is she currently heating with a single stove or multiple stoves? Is there an extra flue that could be used for a propane or oil-fired furnace?
There may be lots of options. Friends of ours heat with a large wood stove, but also have a propane-fired wall heater (vented into an existing flue).
Other options include direct-vented propane or kerosene space heater(s), or, if space/layout permits, a more conventional furnace. Of course, a conventional furnace will necessitate at least some duct work, even if it's not extended to the second floor.
Bob
Edited 11/28/2009 1:50 pm ET by bobguindon
She has a wood stove in one room that heats both the room and the upstairs. The chimney for this stove makes a right angle and goes out the wall, which has not been ideal. The second stove is actually a propane stove made to appear like a wood stove.
Stick with the traditional systems. $500 ought to get you a REAL furnace, not a glorified power hog.
The 'quick and dirty' solution is replacing the wood stove with a pellet stove; they're a lot easier to operate, and offer better temperatire control.
The 'better' solution is a forced-air furnace, with ducts distributing hot air all about the house.
There are many refinements to this idea ... zone control, supplimental circulation, etc. I'd suggest, because of the scale of the job, talking to a contractor.
Just remember .. a space heater is a space heater, and 1500watts of heat can never be more than that. What matters is what you do with that heat. Other than that, there's a lot of marketing hype.
If we go with a central furnace, can we run ducts inside the walls? There is a crawl space upstairs so it seems plausible.
can we run ducts inside the walls?
Most likely, you'll have to sacrifice a portion of a closet or two, or box in the supply and return plenums that feed the second floor. It will likely be easier to go all the way to the attic (assuming access) and place the upstairs registers in the ceiling. Otherwise, there will likely be a lot of horizontal ductwork on the first floor ceiling. Unless your mom likes the industrial look, there would be significant work to box them in, to make them look decent.
renosteinke's suggestion of a pellet stove to replace the woodburner is a good idea, and a *lot* less involved than anything else you could do. Still requires loading, but if someone can maintain a bin of pellets for her somewhere near the stove, she could use a scoop for loading, and not have to handle 40 lb. bags.
In our farmhouse up in Maine, there's a forced air oil furnace in the basement, which feeds registers on the first floor through basement ductwork. The second floor has no ductwork, but has an adjustable floor register in each room, so that warm air can rise up enough to make the bedrooms comfortable. Of course, that place was built in the 1890's, and current fire codes might not allow that type of setup today.
Bob
Edited 11/28/2009 3:43 pm ET by bobguindon
Edited 11/28/2009 3:47 pm ET by bobguindon
Edited 11/28/2009 3:47 pm ET by bobguindon
Edited 11/28/2009 3:48 pm ET by bobguindon
Absolutely ... but, again, here a contractor has better access to the necessary materials, knows the specific equipment, and knows the codes far better than I.
I tend to agree w/ Reno. A pellet stove provides the easiest conversion and reasonable convenience/control. A wall type furnace might do you well. A friend of mine designed them into his duplexes w/ good success. He also had the upper floor open to the lower floor to help the natural circulation of warm air.
Possibly do a horizontal furnace in the crawl or install one in a closet that is a 'downdraft' type feeding ductwork in the crawl. Propane may pose a problem in the crawl (fire safety/code wise). Get a contractor involved and put on your intuition hat and revisit BT again if you need to sort out what he tells you. Have him give you three basic options. If you think he's biased toward one or the other, take care; make sure it isn't because the one he chooses is to make HIS job easier or to fill his pockets. He should give you unbiased information to enable you to make YOUR best decision.
You are generally right about the hype in the ceramic heaters. Don't buy into the hype that makes it sound like you can do more w/ less. The latest, sadly, is the Amish heater w/ the handmade mantel/surround. Yeah, they make a nice surround, but the heater is being billed as something that it really is not.
Yeah, propane "wall furnaces" are a decent alternative to central heat in milder climates. They take up little space and heat quite a bit better than the old propane space heaters. Vent through the wall, so no flue.Re central furnaces, the best choice would probably be a high-efficiency ("condensing") propane unit. These are quiet, low-maintenance, and they use plastic pipe through the sidewall for flue, so you wouldn't have the major expense of rehabbing a flue for gas/oil that you'd have with with other options.
This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in. --Theodore Roosevelt
I'm glad you mentioned the condensing style furnace types. That would be a good option if a flue would be difficult to install ... even if it wasn't difficult, it is high efficiency.
Of course, I'm guessing the house ISN'T "high efficiency", so getting the absolute highest efficiency furnace probably isn't worth it. But a HE furnace is generally more compact and is a lot easier to install than a standard one (can be installed right-side-up, upside-down, or on its side). And you may want the "highest" efficiency unit anyway, since the DC variable-speed motors on the better units use a lot less electricity and are quieter.
This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in. --Theodore Roosevelt
Actually, the house is pretty well insulated so a high efficiency seems like a good suggestion.
Thank you all for the excellent advice!
Where is it?
This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in. --Theodore Roosevelt
A high efficiency furnace is more worth it on inefficient construction than efficient construction ... you save more, because you have a higher load. My $2,000 a year energy bill will see more $ savings than a $1000 a year bill (read 'load').
If my load is tiny, an expensive high efficiency furnace will have difficulty justifying itself than my old leaky 1900's house. 'Course my old house stands to benefit from insulation as well and may be as economical as a new furnace.
Yeah, but the same money put into insulation and sealing will have a bigger payout in a poorly sealed house.
This country will not be a permanently good place for any of us to live in unless we make it a reasonably good place for all of us to live in. --Theodore Roosevelt
The $500 "quartz" heater is a rip-off -- basically a $50 electric space heater with $450 worth of advertising markup.
Whether the place can be retrofit for central heating (and how) depends a lot on the structure of the place. If there's room in the (unfinished?) basement (and nothing like a flood threat to prevent it) then almost certainly a gas furnace could be installed to heat the first floor. Getting adequate heat/circulation to the top floor would require luck, cleverness, and a bit of real work, though.
You have a few options.
Hot air heat is one but it is far from the best "feeling". Also sounds like you have propane for "gas". Cheapest install would be electric baseboard but can be the most expensive to run. Depends where you live.
Water heated baseboard can be done using off peak electric to heat a tank of water to use during the day for a heat source. You could also use a propane fired boiler to supply the heated water.
Small duct heating systems can also be used. Less damage to the home.
I would first improve the insulation value of the home before installing any kind of heating system.
You might find improving the wood fired unit with an external air feed instead of air from the house would reduce the heat load enough to make life easier for Mom.
Infrared heaters feel really nice but electric heating units are very effective and most ceramic or quartz and the like means nothing.