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Hey I found it! Looks like a great site with great topics. Some one asked me to post my list of pre construction costs. There are two list one for a cash job the other adds for the costs of arranging financing. This is a retail cost list something to establish a time value with prospects or in the case of a cancellation a couple weeks after signing a contract. Nothing you do should be free! You have sweated to learn your craft just as a doctor. We have sacrificed time, health and money in most cases. That education has incredible value and deserves the respect of any professional service rendered. I have the utmost respect and admiration for what remodelers orchestrate on a daily basis and yet this incredible performance doesn’t even get an applause, barely a thank you. we are taken for granted when the job “goes as expected” and crucified when one performer is late. Don’t get me started.
Here is the list. If you have any questions my email is riti@concentric.net The numbers are time /hours and costs. It is suprising what we do to get started. (This didn’t copy from excel very well my appologies.
Mr. Fix-It Building co.
Just because we are not working on your house does not mean we are not working on your job. What goes into a job before we even start actual work?
ITEM Hours Cost
1Initial interview, often after hours at customer convenience. Involves drive time.Site inspection: discuss how project will ty into the home. Site to existing house. Discuss & analyze best loan programs for clients that want financing. 1.5 $235.00
2Design work: preliminary layout & sketches with customer on first visit otherwise additional drive time is required if one home owner is not present for interview. 0.5 $135.00
3Take pictures of job site for reference also helps with future design work or changes customer may request. Involved equipement (Digital Camera, software, scannner, computers etc.) 0.25 $28.00
4Fill out specification forms. Go over general client selections. 0.75 $65.00
5Fill out appropriate contracts (Additional fee if forms need to be typed or computer generated). 0.5 $45.00
6Fill out job folder and set up client in computer for tracking. 0.25 $25.00
7Price out project. Contact suppliers on specialty items. 1 $85.00
8Review price structure with customer often involves second trip to customer’s home. 1 $85.00
9Fill out permit forms. Sometimes we must drive to the city to get the forms since each city has its own. 0.5 $40.00
10Run 7 copies of surveys, drawings and work orders for city 0.25 $50.00
11Go to city building dept. apply for permit 1 $85.00
12Second trip to city building dept. to pick up permit 1 $85.00
13Research, check availability of, and reference material selections for project. Possibly ordering specialty items. 2 $150.00
14Draftsmen / Architect Field measure and draw plans. (Only on sructural type projects, additons, dormers, porches, decks, wall removal etc.) 3 $400.00
15Superintendent plan review and material list 2 $150.00
16Superintendent field review of architectural plans or working drawings with home owner. 1 $85.00
17Scheduling of trades and setting up/ coordinating schedules and material drops. 2 $150.00
TOTAL 18.5 $1,898.00
Deduct #14 if not a structural job -4 $(400.00)
TOTAL 14.5 $1,498.00
Costs regarding financed projects Hours Cost
1Project consultant fills out credit application with client at client’s home. 0.5 $55.00
2Company secures a credit report. 0.25 $25.00
3Credit report is analyzed by two finance officers for placement with a lender. 0.5 $40.00
4Finance manager’s time on phone checking for best rate for client’s credit situation. 0.75 $48.00
5Fax credit app and additional information (run copies) to lender for review. 0.25 $18.00
6Lender sends company approval conditions. 0.05 $5.00
7Company fills out form, pays for and orders Title Report 0.25 $85.00
8Company fills out form, pays for and orders flood check 0.25 $30.00
9Company fills out form, pays for and orders Verification of Mortgage history 0.25 $30.00
10Finance officer reviews condition of above results, logs updates of communications in computer, and contacts customer. 0.25 $20.00
11If there is a defect in title or liens to be researched or corrected costs are unpredictable 4 $260.00
12Project consultant drives back to client to pick up financial support documents i.e.: check stubs, W-2s, warranty deed, copy of home owners’ insurance etc.(most people do not trust these items to mail service) 1 $85.00
13Finance officer faxes support documents, title report, and flood check results, to lender for release of conditions. 0.25 $18.00
14Company prepares loan documents: Credit application, installment contract, Mortgage etc. 0.75 $65.00
15Project consultant makes appointment and drives back to client to execute documents for lender again at clients convenience often after hours. 1 $85.00
16Upon return of executed documents the finance officer checks for accuracy and completion of paper work. 0.25 $18.00
17Recording Fees, fill out form and send to county by courier 0.5 $89.00
18General Fed Ex: Fill out form and pay fee ..25 $25.00
19Upon meeting final conditions job file is transferred to superintendent or planning department when appropriate, copies are ran and job is updated in computer tracking.
Replies
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Thanks, Rick - Glad you found the site! I've sent some of my notes from previous conversations with our esteemed colleagues over to Sonny to coordinate but I don't think your list was among them. Ken
By the way, I did find your sales package and price lists helpful. Kathy is working her way through the presentation stuff, and I have been working on bringing our pricing system up to date. The one thing I did not see is a pricing system for the front-end work like kitchen design. Looks like your latest info has that covered.
*Hey Ken,I got directions from sonny Re: FHB(my first problem in finding the place, I should have asked Barb) Then an email from Mike L. that defined FHB as fine home building (I'm not up on the jargon like you folks.)which helped tremendously. ThanksGlad you are deciphering the sale presentation. There is nothing regarding design fees because I advocate the one visit consumation of the deal. I get a contract for the entire job imediately, on the spot, we work out the designs in the sales process leading up to the price, in a simple sketch format, to be turned into blueprints later. I know its the reverse of what most people do and before I hear about not being able to do it on big deals I wrote one for $106,000.00 roughed in the other night. Another for $44,000.00 the other afternoon. The largest dollar amount has been $225,000.00. I guess I can't vouch for anything over that.:-) (Sorry, I can't help but be a smart ass) Believe me, it works. Ken, instead of a design agreement try asking them to sign the contract, they just might do it. You have my toll free 888 number on the advertising flyer I included, if you want to call in the afternoon and discuss anything about the system.Have a great day!Rick
*Rick, obviously all your deals are of the cost-plus variety?blue
*If by cost plus you mean a time and material type deal NO! I quote a solid price for the project and it is a set price for the work defined in the contract. I would never do a t&m deal. you can't make enough money.
*Hardly, Blue. It's more like the retail store for home improvements. Do you think any smart retailer would disclose his direct costs to a consumer? This is a package deal thing. Rick's price lists account for the works so you can "build" the project in front of the consumer and give the price on the spot and not get burned, all while helping the consumers sell themselves. Combine that with a contract that has passed the legal tests, and you have a SYSTEM.
*I got to use some of Ricks system, for the first time yesterday. First meeting - a total flop. My fault, I wasn't listening to the client, I was thinking too much about the new system. I'm sure Rick can do his presentation with one hand behind his back. It's gonna take some practice.Second visit. Great! We talked about some options for building a garage. I was able to talk about real world prices for different opitions, Had samples or pictures of every material or part of construction she had a question about, We were able to create a real project with a real price and then make adjustments (I actually must have been under her budget because I was able to add a couple of items to the project)I didn't sign a contract on site. Rick would have and soon I will to but It's all new to me. I'll see her Wednesday to get the signatures and deposit check. This was the first time I've been able to give a real price on the spot. She wanted an attached two car garage. We ended up with a detached pole building garage. If I had just taken notes and mailed her a price for the job she wanted, I never would have gotten the job. Pricing on the spot let me give options. That's how it is with everything else we buy.
*Ryan, consider using the page that gives a percentage of importance rating to each part of the presentation and grade yourself on what was strong and weak. It will help show the areas to be improved. Your welcome to call me and analyze the presentation. Keep in mind that for me it is done at a non thinking, subconscious level. In the beginning it is not important whether it is right or wrong but what does matter is that you follow the order of the presentation method. You will get better the quickest that way.
*Hey Rick,Welcome to the board. I do want to know more about this, but when I look at the dollar figures, I'm blown away. $1898.00 before you even pull a nail?It makes sense for big jobs, maybe that's what we're talking here, but I can't add this much in for smaller stuff.What about time/$ estimates for different types of jobs, or different parts of jobs; I think Sonny mentioned you had a way of pricing about everything, but I could be wrong. MD
*Actually Mad Dog, you can deduct the 400.00 for prints on smaller stuff. Consider all the steps that it takes to get ready for the work and you may be surprised. Filling out a permit app, taking it to the city, your gas and vehicle, figuring material lists, time at the yard and so on. This is actually a "menu" of fees. You can choose what pertains to the job and come up with your own total. Be careful about small jobs. They can fool contractors into thinking they are making money. Everyone should have a minimum job amount and each of us should understand what the true basic costs are of processing a job folder and the paperwork/time associated to it.Each job has a process to go through at my company. It costs the same to create a folder, set the job up in the computer, send correspondence to the client on a small job as a big job. You know what I mean. It started with a bill I got from my accountant. 50.00 dollars to run copies of our agreement, 250 to create the agreement, 100.00 to proof read it, and so on up to $1400.00. This made me realize that every fax, copy, and phone call we make should have a cost passed on to the client. Agree or not it works for me.
*Mostly, I agree. I know how much time I've wasted doing the things you mentioned, and not always did I get paid for it. It makes sense from a format point of view, I can adjust some of the figures to fit my situation more closely, especially since my overhead is still pretty low.Keep it coming!
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Hey I found it! Looks like a great site with great topics. Some one asked me to post my list of pre construction costs. There are two list one for a cash job the other adds for the costs of arranging financing. This is a retail cost list something to establish a time value with prospects or in the case of a cancellation a couple weeks after signing a contract. Nothing you do should be free! You have sweated to learn your craft just as a doctor. We have sacrificed time, health and money in most cases. That education has incredible value and deserves the respect of any professional service rendered. I have the utmost respect and admiration for what remodelers orchestrate on a daily basis and yet this incredible performance doesn't even get an applause, barely a thank you. we are taken for granted when the job "goes as expected" and crucified when one performer is late. Don't get me started.
Here is the list. If you have any questions my email is riti@concentric.net The numbers are time /hours and costs. It is suprising what we do to get started. (This didn't copy from excel very well my appologies.
Mr. Fix-It Building co.
Just because we are not working on your house does not mean we are not working on your job. What goes into a job before we even start actual work?
ITEM Hours Cost
1Initial interview, often after hours at customer convenience. Involves drive time.Site inspection: discuss how project will ty into the home. Site to existing house. Discuss & analyze best loan programs for clients that want financing. 1.5 $235.00
2Design work: preliminary layout & sketches with customer on first visit otherwise additional drive time is required if one home owner is not present for interview. 0.5 $135.00
3Take pictures of job site for reference also helps with future design work or changes customer may request. Involved equipement (Digital Camera, software, scannner, computers etc.) 0.25 $28.00
4Fill out specification forms. Go over general client selections. 0.75 $65.00
5Fill out appropriate contracts (Additional fee if forms need to be typed or computer generated). 0.5 $45.00
6Fill out job folder and set up client in computer for tracking. 0.25 $25.00
7Price out project. Contact suppliers on specialty items. 1 $85.00
8Review price structure with customer often involves second trip to customer's home. 1 $85.00
9Fill out permit forms. Sometimes we must drive to the city to get the forms since each city has its own. 0.5 $40.00
10Run 7 copies of surveys, drawings and work orders for city 0.25 $50.00
11Go to city building dept. apply for permit 1 $85.00
12Second trip to city building dept. to pick up permit 1 $85.00
13Research, check availability of, and reference material selections for project. Possibly ordering specialty items. 2 $150.00
14Draftsmen / Architect Field measure and draw plans. (Only on sructural type projects, additons, dormers, porches, decks, wall removal etc.) 3 $400.00
15Superintendent plan review and material list 2 $150.00
16Superintendent field review of architectural plans or working drawings with home owner. 1 $85.00
17Scheduling of trades and setting up/ coordinating schedules and material drops. 2 $150.00
TOTAL 18.5 $1,898.00
Deduct #14 if not a structural job -4 $(400.00)
TOTAL 14.5 $1,498.00
Costs regarding financed projects Hours Cost
1Project consultant fills out credit application with client at client's home. 0.5 $55.00
2Company secures a credit report. 0.25 $25.00
3Credit report is analyzed by two finance officers for placement with a lender. 0.5 $40.00
4Finance manager's time on phone checking for best rate for client's credit situation. 0.75 $48.00
5Fax credit app and additional information (run copies) to lender for review. 0.25 $18.00
6Lender sends company approval conditions. 0.05 $5.00
7Company fills out form, pays for and orders Title Report 0.25 $85.00
8Company fills out form, pays for and orders flood check 0.25 $30.00
9Company fills out form, pays for and orders Verification of Mortgage history 0.25 $30.00
10Finance officer reviews condition of above results, logs updates of communications in computer, and contacts customer. 0.25 $20.00
11If there is a defect in title or liens to be researched or corrected costs are unpredictable 4 $260.00
12Project consultant drives back to client to pick up financial support documents i.e.: check stubs, W-2s, warranty deed, copy of home owners' insurance etc.(most people do not trust these items to mail service) 1 $85.00
13Finance officer faxes support documents, title report, and flood check results, to lender for release of conditions. 0.25 $18.00
14Company prepares loan documents: Credit application, installment contract, Mortgage etc. 0.75 $65.00
15Project consultant makes appointment and drives back to client to execute documents for lender again at clients convenience often after hours. 1 $85.00
16Upon return of executed documents the finance officer checks for accuracy and completion of paper work. 0.25 $18.00
17Recording Fees, fill out form and send to county by courier 0.5 $89.00
18General Fed Ex: Fill out form and pay fee ..25 $25.00
19Upon meeting final conditions job file is transferred to superintendent or planning department when appropriate, copies are ran and job is updated in computer tracking.