We have a carriage house we plan on converting to guest quarters. The structure was build around 1910 with 2×4 studs and clapboard lap siding like in the attached image. This siding is referred to as cove siding, dutch siding, drop siding, etc.
The structure is rather small so we are strongly leaning towards 2″ ridgid foam on the exterior plus insulation in the stud bays instead of firing out the interior and loosing space.
The question is can we add the foam over the exising siding since it provides a flat mounting surface – exept for the coves? The alternative is to tear all this off, then cover it right back up with sheathing. The siding is sound and straight.
Thoughts on why this plan is ill-conceived…
Thanks, Daen
Replies
You can definitely add foam on the outside. The difficulty is with how you're going to fasten the new siding afterwards -- there are several different schemes.
Knowing where you are and what weather conditions are like would inform further comments.
adding rigid foam...
...insulation is a no-no and a huge waste of time and money if you live in a heating climate area.
If you live in a cooling climate it would make more sense.
Are you concerned with reducing heat loss or heat gain to the living space?
In a heating climate the insulation belongs as close to the warm side of the wall as it can be placed-period!
The only reason for being worried about where insulation goes in a wall is because of potential condensation, and there it's an issue of thermal resistance vs vapor resistance and the way the two profiles interplay -- many different possible "solutions" to the problem.
reading your textbook again...
...dan?
better re-read it because you ain't gettin' it!
i repeat...insulation to the heated side of living space in heating climates!
you need some ( a lot) practical experience!
that crap about potential condensation, etc, is just that-crap
you just don't know what you're talking about most of the time in your posts but you try to advise people asking for assistance with problems constantly and on any subject that appears on these forum pages-as if you knew everything about each topic!. you are giving erroneous advice more often than not and i am asking you to stop.
the people posting and asking for advice need solid verifiable information-not a foolish peacock strut from an uniformed egotist like you.
Look at where the person lives who is asking the question. Apache Junction AZ! It's both a heating and cooling climate. Well, unless he lives in western MT, which is not where his profile shows.
hi mark...
...and welcome to this stream!
please re-read all of the posts in this stream.
post #3 clearly indicates the original poster is inquiring about western MT.
your comment about apache jct AZ is inaccurate however.
that area is most definitely a cooling climate-search the definitions of heating and cooling climates.
for best performancethe insulation should go closest to the conditioned side of the framing-not on the outside of a building and never on the outside of te siding!
please respond if you have any more confusion about this issue.
thanks for posting!
I think you have no knowledge of Apache Junction weather. It's cold in winter and hot but arid in the summer.
lets try it ...
...once again!
in my last post i told you to look up definitions for heating climate and cooling climate.
did you do so?
this isn't something that is an opinion or open for debate-its just a fact: all of southern AZ is a cooling climate.
care to try those definitions again?
oh-not that this has any bearing on the fact that apache jct is a cooling climate but i have been there several times.
is that where you are mark?
hey-good luck with trying to understand this basic concept!
i just know you will get it eventually-if you dont give up!
Renail existing siding first?
A couple things spring to mind.
Lots of times out here in WA those old outbuildings were built right on the ground, or if there was a slab, the wood siding went right down to the ground.
If that's the case in your building I'd strip the bottom 12" or so of siding off and replace it with pressure treated plywood. Better yet would be to pour a short stem wall or put a row of CMU under those walls, but that requires far more work. Main thing is to get at least 8" seperation between ground and any rotable (?) building materials. If you're going to convert this to living space, go ahead and commit to rebuilding it for 200 year life.
But as for covering that old siding, as long as it's in good shape - we do it all the time. We generally renail it off before covering it. Galvanized nails weren't as common back in the day and lots of times those old buildings' nail are loose or have backed out some. Check your corners for plumb, brace as needed then face nail it two nails/board/stud - you'll get plenty of shear value.
Thank you for the input.
The climate is Western Montana so we do see some cold, but not wet like coastal areas.
The building is on sound footings. The main house and carriage house were moved and set on a modern concrete foundation / basement in the mid 1970s. At that time, the carriage house roof structure was removed, rebuilt, and tied in to the main house. It was to become the master suite. But as kids grew and moved the need faded. Now a generation later, busy procreation has brought the need full circle again!
western MT...
...definitely a heating climate...insulation on the inside of the studs will allow it to perform the way it is intended to.
Why would you want to put it on the outside?
I'm definitely late to this "discussion," but nevertheless I have to join in. Could you, kxm1, please offer some substantiation for what you are saying about stud/insulation orientation? Because I don't think you are correct... not even a little bit. Heat inside, heat outside doesn't really care if there is a stud in the way or not. Consider SIP construction... there are no studs, just insulation.
kxm1 took a powder after he was called out for all the bad info he was spouting.
That's OK. You know, one of the things that I truly dislike about this forum's organization is that it doesn't list contributions chronologically. I know the designers' intent was to make it easy to comment directly to a specific posting, but the downside is that more than one conversation gets going. Then one doesn't know exactly where to add an additional comment.
Just below the opening question in the thread are some controls. Select "flat list".
Also, consider selecting "newest first", so the latest messages are at the top of the list.
Thanks. I guess this falls into the catagory of "when all else fails, read the instructions."
What was that?
Was he trying to start a fight? Not only was he full of sheet, he was obnoxious about it.
Mike
I'd best set things straight so's kx doesn't get reamed unknowingly.
If you read his posts you might understand what compelled me to email him. I suggested he might think b/4 he wrote. While he may well be a valuable source for information, alot of it was lost in his childish retorts.
I suggested he come back here and apologize to the board and maybe give it another shot, this time with just a bit more decorum.
I carried on a couple email messages with him. I found he lives near where I was born in NY, spent some time working in the town I graduated HS from in Ohio. Seemed like a decent enough guy.
So beats me-he may return, he isn't ban'd.
He was one prolific poster..............