Hi all, I usually hang out in Over the Fence, but thought I’d poke in here.
OUr house is heated (well, not really, its more our backyard thats heated, but anyway…) by some very old gas fired wall units. They have burners in them that heat oil, which circulates through some maze of pipes and are supposed to radiate heat. (The heat all goes through the wall – old version of direct venting that doesn’t work). Anyway, I came across a flyer for a unit from Rinnai, and they have modern units with similar dimensions, and a blower in them. Is anyone familiar with these things?? Are they any good? Are they very efficient?
The Rinnai website is http://www.rinnaina.com/products/heatersfurnaces/RHFE556FAIII.asp there they say these things are all ductless, which is true, but they do have a 3″ dia direct vent through the wall, which I imagine is adequate for the gas they use.
A second question is that if they say the furnace generates X BTU, and has a fan moving Y CFM, how do I calculate the size of room that the heater would service?
Thanks in advance,
Dagwood
Replies
Dag- I put in a Rannai direct vent furnace in my place last fall and really like the thing.
Thermostat settings and leave it alone. It comes set for propane with a natural gas adapter kit if desired.
In my area it wasn't the easiest to locate one. Call company direct to find a rep and take it from there instead of messing around with heating supply places.
If you do a net search there's a furnace outfit out in maine who have a lot of comparison data on their site.
Thanks Rez,
There are no sellers in our area either, so I was thinking I would buy the unit, then take it home and have an HVAC dealer install it for me. You think I would have a hard time finding a seller? If its no more difficult to install than a gas range, then I think I could put it in myself. Of course if the venting was wrong I'd be breathing some nasty stuff...
DagwoodView Image
Dag- Where are you located at?
A 3 1/4 inch hole in your wall is all it takes. A slight angle downward for the 3" ventpipe for condensation drainage and another hole for whatever fuel line you will be using. Not rocket science:o)
Comes with pretty clear consise directions.
Run a word search here for Rinnai as some others have discussed them in the past.
Edited 4/2/2004 8:05 pm ET by rez
Are you sure you don't mean RINNAI ?
check:o)
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
I'm in Alberta right now, but will be in Southern Ontario before long (near Toronto. If I buy a unit here and take it home with me to install it in Ontario, then I will save myself the taxes...
I got in touch with the sales guy yesterday, and he is trying to get a price for me.
DagwoodView Image
What model will you be getting?
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
I was hoping to get the RHFE-556WTA with the programmable thermostat etc. But apparently it won't handle what I need it to do. The next size up is the RHFE-1004FA, but it doesn't have a programmable thermostat, so I'm not sure if it would be as good of a solution, and at 38,000 BTU, I don't know if it will heat the space properly. I begin to think that a better solution may be to wait till I get to Ontario, have the heat loss calcs done by someone who knows what they are doing, then see if one of these units is available that will work there.
Its too bad you can't rent one of these for a couple weeks and see if it works...
DagwoodView Image
So the 556 has programable thermostat controls not found on the 1004?
What is the difference in the thermostst controls between these two?
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
Basically yes. The programmable thermostat is an option on the 556. For reasons not known to me, that option is not available on the larger model. it is basically one temp. setting, then constant heat.
The existing (archaic) unit is controlled by a knob on the top of it with numbers from one through six, and a red dot. Not exactly precise. We usually just turn down the knob when we go out or head to bed, so I guess we could continue that way, but it would be nice to get something with the programmable thermostat.
DagwoodView Image
Dag, Like I had said earlier, I have just got one of the 1004s and it has a programable thermostat on it with the LED. You can set it at a temp and it will go on and off as needed. It also has an economy mode feature. I paid $1106 for it and a tank of gas to pick it up.
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
Edited 4/5/2004 2:27 am ET by rez
So you are telling me that the 1004 has a 7 day, 28 event programmable thermostat??!! If thats the case, the rep here really has no clue what he is talking about!! Either that or they put this on yours special for you or something. I'll be back in touch with the guy tomorrow. I wonder if he'll have groundbreaking news for me.
DagwoodView Image
I don't recall reading anything about a 7 day, 28 event programable thermostat.
This one has a regular temp setting that will shut off when the room temp reaches your setting and come on again when it cools down.
What is the 7 day, 28 event deal? 37477.10
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
Edited 4/5/2004 2:20 am ET by rez
I have two Panasonic and one Hitachi heater of this type, only mine burn kerosene, not gas. I have one big kerosene tank and it has lines that run into the heaters. My fuel cost is about one fifth that of propane.
Installation is easy. You do want to follow the instructions very literally and be sure to get the exhaust pipe o-rings set just right, so that you don't get blowback into your room.
Great, where were you when I needed you.:o)
What does kerosene run in american dollars over there in Japan?
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
there's a kerosene space heater called Monitor w/ programmable controls, different btu sized models...check out http://www.monitorproducts.com also have oil and nat gas fired heaters... popular here in new england... friend put kero unit in living room, 275gal oil tank in basement, small wall mounted pump w 1 pint reservoir mounts on wall on same floor level as heater to feed it..
has a two stage stainless intake/exhaust pipe, where exhaust flows out pipe, and cold-air intake pipe around it brings in fresh combustion air instead of depleting oxygen in room or causing drafts.
He spends about $250. - $300.yr. to heat 1700sf ranch...trick is fuel up tank in july when kero is cheapest, and from oil company that does bulk delivery of kero...
I picked up a rebuilt Monitor (41, I think) for $800 and plumbed and installed it in our daylight basement. I'm finishing the rest of the house while we live downstairs. The thing heats the whole house (900 sq.ft. basement, 2 more floors at 1800 sq.ft.) no problem in a western Maine climate. The heat is remarkably even too, it has a pretty advanced processor. Sure, beat shelling out $5,000 or more for a boiler and all the plumbing.
i'm impressed with them...was in equipment supply house in N.H. heated by several Monitors, said they slashed their fuel bill from the old forced air units near the ceiling.
my friend's ranch style home is always warm with their unit. has to be, his wife is a real princess. once, when we were bringing back takeout, i wrote "Made From 100% Recycled Food" on the foam container. thought she was going to kill me. what a witch. hey, i didn't open it up and vandalize the vittles, i just wrote on the container. approval from her is a hard won endorsement.
The outfit that rebuilt our Monitor did a great job, it looked new. Maybe it would pass the "princesses" muster. Perfect Plumbing and Heating in Alfred, ME, about 15 minutes east of Sanford. Monitor does a cash back promo to folks that "trade-in" their old Monitor so the get lots of units to choose from. Not sure the comparison to Rinnai but so far so good.
Al's Rinnai Heating at Discount
Not trying to isolate individual salespersonal into this thread but this site had some interesting data for the comparison value when you are researching.
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
fc- check out site mentioned in preceding discussion 21 on this thread from REZ re: ..........al's heating.......... looked over this site, tells maintenance problems w monitor units...but this guy sells affordable parts, has parts unavailable from manufacturer for discontinued models, has DIY videos to do rebuilds, maintenance
Thanks for the link. Compelling arguments for the Rinnai. I'll had a hard time finding much "objective" comparisons of DV heaters. Hopefully, my Monitor will give me a few years of service. Al seems like the kind of crackpot I shouldhave gone to in the first place. Live and learn.
I'll still buy another K-1 unit though... better price per BTU.
Our kerosene is about $1.50 per gallon, about half the price of gasoline. On a BTU basis, it costs a third of the cost of natural gas, a fifth the cost of propane and a sixth the cost of electricity.
It's not a good fuel for the inner city, because fire regulations restrict us to a 30 gallon tank--and anyway, the convenience of natural gas is worth the extra cost (I frequently forget to get the tank filled). It's more suitable for a country application with a large tank.
Dunno about the Rinnai heaters, but our Panasonic ones have filter screens at the back to keep the blower from sucking in dust. This is a good feature, cleaner air, less burnt dust.
I should also point out, for you tankless water heater fans, that several Japanese firms make kerosene tankless units. If you already have a kerosene tank and fuel line setup, it could make sense to run one more line for a kerosene tankless boiler.
Here in my neck of the woods kerosene and propane are pretty close $1.79 and $1.89 depending on what day you get the stuff. :o)
The Rinnai has a pair of filters in the back with a recommended periodic cleaning.
I don't recall anything about kerosene adaptor kits for the Rinnai but seems if that was a go they sure would have advertised the fact.
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."
I don't understand how you are comparing the two. Propane is priced by weight and kerosene is by volume, isn't it? Are you comparing the cost per BTU somehow?
Man, I don't know. What I do know is they are both pretty expensive for what you get and this is one countryboy how's going to wood heat.
"just nail that board up there!!!"
"look, lady..."