WOULD ANYONE OUT THERE CARE TO WALK ME THROUGH THE PROCESS OF DETERMNING THE RISE AND RUN OF A SET OF STAIRS AND LAYING THEM OUT? THANK’S TO ALL WHO REPLY……..
Discussion Forum
Discussion Forum
Up Next
Video Shorts
Featured Story
Skim-coating with joint compound covers texture, renews old drywall and plaster, and leaves smooth surfaces ready to paint.
Highlights
"I have learned so much thanks to the searchable articles on the FHB website. I can confidently say that I expect to be a life-long subscriber." - M.K.
Fine Homebuilding Magazine
Fine Home Building
Follow
-
Fine Homebuilding
Dig into cutting-edge approaches and decades of proven solutions with total access to our experts and tradespeople.
Start Free Trial Now -
GBA Prime
Get instant access to the latest developments in green building, research, and reports from the field.
Start Free Trial Now
Replies
do you mean a straight run?
Thats a pretty opened ended question John and it appears you are unwilling to put any effort into research other than typing. Lets see, could anone out there walk me through how to build a house?
Buy a book John, and if you have some trouble understanding the process and have a specific question on a specific style of stair, I would be happy to give you the benefit of my experience.
Turtleneck
I would rather go to bed with Lillian Russel stark naked. than with Ulysses S. Grant in full military regalia. - Samuel Clemens
Find the total height that you are dealing with. Divide that by 7.5 to get close to how many risers you will need. Remember that your risers cannot be higher than 7.75". Once you know how many risers you will have divide that into your total height. As long as the number is less than 7.75" you're okay, if not you need to add one more riser and divide again. As a good rule of thumb take the rise you end up with, say it is 7.5", deduct that from 18" and your get 10.5". That is supposed to give you a "natural" feeling stair. Code governs not only the 7.75" max riser height, but also says that a tread can never be less than 10" deep. You can find all of this info. in 314.2 for some boring reading.
At this point I suggest you get a set of framing square clips to make your life a little easier. Use a standard rafter guide or whatever method you choose to determine the length of stringers. For exterior stairs I like to use 2x6 material (2) for the treads, it gives you a good 11" tread. A 1" nose is required on the tread if utilizing solid risers, not open like with most outdoor stairs. I like to leave the 1" nose anyway, so I normally cut 10" treads. Lay your square on your stringer, towards an end. Lay it so that it is in a V shape away from you, and hold (or use your handly clips) one side on 7.5", and the other on 10". You can see that this represents your riser and tread. Mark the line around the square. Now slide so that the right number lines up with where you just marked the left side. You're probably seeing where this is going by now. Lay out as many risers as you determined that you need. After you mark the last tread, mark a line parallel with the last riser mark at a point 10" in on the last tread mark.
Don't forget this important part: If you are using 1.5" thick tread materials, such as 2x6, deduct that thickness from the bottom riser, marking up 1.5". If you don't do this your bottom step will be be 1.5" too high, and you'll be too high at the top of the run as well.
Be careful with your layout, code says that your riser height can't vary by more than 3/8" total. Your treads also can't exceed 2%. Headroom, if a consideration can't be less than 6'8". If you have 2 or more risers you'll need a grippable hand rail. Let me know if you need the specs for that.
Stairs can seem intimidating at first, but once you've tackled a set it will be very easy the next time.
Good luck.
Beach Bum,thank you very much for all your information,that is exatly the kind of info I was interested in.Many fine folks sent very informitave info and I thank them,also.Of course some were more concerned about proper computer etiquette than the question at hand.By the way Beach bum,I like your screen name,my wife and I own a house at the beach,which gives me the oppertunity to practice my limited carpentry skills,hence my posted question. Thank's to all who responded.
John
That was a great answer, so was Joe's. One other guy chimed in with getting the hyp., adding it over and over, writing those #'s down, and marking that along the stringer.
I didn't do that on my first stair and I had creep on my layout. Just the cumulative error of the pencil width adds up over a bunch of steps.
Good LuckSteelkilt Lives!
What building code are you using? '99 BOCA and the new IBC state min. 11" tread and max 7" riser.
Moral of the story - check your local building code before doing the layout.
Thumb, I don't have the new IBC book, but I'm pretty sure those numbers aren't right. I agree that 7/11 is a comfortable stair, but, man, it would push a bunch of the ones I work on outside of the house! I'm checking tomorrow, cause we just went IBC.
Mr. Micro, Stan, our old code had the "change yer mind on the floor covering" thing covered, they gave a 3/4" variance on the top and bottom treads...I'd also heard how our feet get a memory of the risers, but I have had to fake some stuff to "existing conditions" and, I'll tell you what, that memory isn't measured in micro anythings...it's still our job to keep them safe.
EliphIno!
2000IBC
"1003.3.3.3 Stair treads and risers. Stair riser heights shall be 7 inches maximum and 4 inches minimum. Stair tread depths shall be 11 inches minimum. The riser height shall be measured vertically between the leading edges of adjacent treads. The tread depth shall be measured horizontally between the vertical planes of the foremost projecton of adjacent treads and at right angle to the tread's leading edge."
Exceptions apply to circular stairs, winders, and spiral stairs. The 7.75"/10" dimensions can be applied with restrictions to stairs in R3 occupancy, which does not typically include single family residences.
"R3 occupancy, which does not typically include single family residences."
whoops. lets not confuse zoning with building code. Sorry folks, my mistake. R3 occupancies in IBC "include all detached one- and two- family dwellings..."
Exception #5 to IBC 1003.3.3.3 allows a minimum tread width of 10" IF a nosing of 3/4" to 1-1/4" is provided.
Personally, I always calculate an 11" tread. Never had an inspector argue with me over that.
Boy, this transition is going to be interesting , to say the least <G> EliphIno!
my IBC 2000 (One & Two Family Dwelling) says 7.75 & 10 (section R314.2)
of course the RI amendment allows 8.25 & 9.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Finally got to check out our new code book, it's the same as it ever was, with a couple of exceptions: interior steps can have a nosing projection of 3/4"-1 14" ( old was 1" max) and stairs with winders no longer need continuous handrails, if the handrails overlap. I'm still trying to figure out how they''' overlap and return to the wall. The inspector I talked with about it just rolled his eyes...the interpretation is up to the individual inspectors! Sheesh, I gotta do one next week;-0 EliphIno!
i hate it when they roll their eyes.....Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
>I'd also heard how our feet get a memory of the risers
It's taken me a while to finish the floor at top, floor at bottom, and treads here, so I regularly have something off by an inch or so. Each time I finish a new chunk, we get a case of the tripsies. Feet remember not just height, but height of each tread!
Edited 2/28/2003 10:31:22 PM ET by Cloud Hidden
That's why we make everything different, not only does it keep you on your toes, your feets don't have waste time remembering anything<G>
Tripping the light fantastic... EliphIno!
Don't forget that there's a difference bertween tread size and run of layout.
Excellence is its own reward!
Sure...................
Just tell me the total rise in the rough frame and finish, tell me the maximum run that you can have, tell me the width of the stairs, tell me the configuration of the stair lay out, tell me the final finish/trim that will cover the rough set of horses and make the hand rails.
Tell me what you think you know and understand about building stairs....it establishes where to start and end. Might even save a lot of typing...which I'm very good and slow about......don't even ask about WPM/Errors!!!!!
.....................Iron Helix
And quit posting in all caps.
Hey Dunc, I didn't relize this forum was going to be policed for proper computer ediciate!!!WHAT'S NEXT,PROPER SPELLING?(NOW I'M SHOUTING)
Whatever. You're the one who's looking for information. For every guy who's willing to call you on the all caps, there are others who will just silently put you on ignore. One of them may have the best answer to your question. Your choice.
I'll only criticize your spelling if it gets so bad I can't understand what you're trying to say.
Edited 2/25/2003 6:40:56 PM ET by Uncle Dunc
Briefly, through a haze of Merlot...
You need a rise/run of approximately 7.5"/ <10"
You take the dimension from finished floor to finished floor and divide by 7.5 to get the approximate number of risers. this answer will give yiou a remainder, unless you live a charmed life. So, if it is between twelve and thirteen, you need to decide which way to change it since you don't want a two inch step - or whatever.
So you decide that you will have thirteen risers. You then divide the dimension you started with by thirteen. That gives you the height of the risers.
Then you want the total run available. You should be drawing this out to scale because you will need a min 6'8" clear headroom from tip of tread (about an inch and a quarter to two and a quarter inches in fronmt of the cut stringer) to the finish ceiling cut through.
If you have 13 risers, you will have twelve treads. You need a minimum of 9-1/2" of run with 10-1/4" of tread for each step. Lots of options open from here.
Anyway, suppose you cut your stringers at a 7-1/2" rise and a 10" run. now you are not quite ready to install them.
You need to know the thickness of the finished treads to be applied, or if you will apply a plywood box surface first to be overclad with finish materials later. no rise can vary more than 3/4" whan it is all done.
Whatever thickness you will be applying to the top of the cut out stringers is the dimension you will remove from the bottom of the stringer before you set them in place.
Curious thing here. I was just reading another thread wher a guy mentioned that his test of whether a man was a real carpenter was if he could mortise, plane, and hinge a door blank. That is a good tesat, but one of my tests is if a man can demonstrate how to layout a set of stairs.
Excellence is its own reward!
John,
View Image
Construction Forums Online!
Thank's Joe, very helpful!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thank's Joe,I printed the info you sent.I belive it will be very useful.
John,
Glad I could help.View Image
Construction Forums Online!
John, pick up Larry Haun's book "The Very Efficient Carpenter," where you'll not only learn how to build stairs, but the book is an excellent source for many other aspects of building. Good luck
regards
Thank's dustmonkey, look's like that might be a good read,I'll try to find this book..
John, Another book you might try is " Simpified Stair Building ", by A. Riechers. It is a simple book, geared for the beginer. One cool thing is that it has a table in the back that gives you riser hts. and # of treads for every ht. imaginable.......Peace
And if you are a perfectionist, and totally anal about having every step riser be dead-on equal, like Mr. Micro here, what do you figure for stairs that are all wooden, but land at the top on carpet? What IS that top riser dimension? Must we do compressibility tests on all the different carpets and their pads? What if everybody in the household is a lightweight, but Uncle Hal, a frequent visitor, is a fattie? I'm told the human foot, when ascending stairs, gets into the pattern of the rise, and only clears treads by a teenie fraction of an inch. Do we design things so that we g-l-i-d-e onto the carpet, gently brushing the tops of the fibers, before settling in? What say you, stair builders? I think the important thing to remember, is that one must design the flights to go from floor finish to floor finish. But then, I'm Mr. Micro.
Mr Micro "having every step riser
be dead-on equal" isn't just perfectionism it the code. Or pretty close for that
matter. Checkout page 3 (section R314.2 Treads and Risers) of the Visual
Interpretation Of The International Residential Code-2000 Stair
Building Code It says there "The greatest riser height
within any flight of stairs shall not exceed the smallest by
more than 3/8 inch (9.5 mm)."
View Image
"Function is based
on more than utilitarian factors. Ambiance invites use."- Sarah Susanka
Mr. Micro: You most certainly have to allow for carpet thickness when figuring your finished floor to finished floor height. I have found that around 3/4 of an inch will cover almost all carpets. Many times I have built a stairs for my clients with the treads all lowered to allow for a carpet runner.....only to have the owners change their mind about covering up all that beautiful wood. I have to explain to them that without a carpet runner...the first step up from the foyer will be 3/4 of an inch low and the last step going to the second floor will be 3/4 of an inch high. NOT GOOD for passing inspections. In fact an astute inspector will catch this and the owners will have to fib and say they are having a runner installed.
Then the cases I hate are the ones that dont know what to tell me about having a runner or not while I am building the stairs in my shop. If I split the difference for the allowance of the carper runner.....in other words....lower the treads by 3/8 of an inch...I am then in a dilema as my stairs will be wrong either way. This makes me feel like I am in the twilight zone..and I have long ago learned to stay out of that. I make the contractor or homeowner give me a definate decision ....then if they change their mind....they will just have to deal with that 3/8 inch error.
Edited 2/25/2003 7:00:50 AM ET by Stan Foster
I know exactly where you're coming from Stan. I've been down that road too many times. Most homeowners just don't understand that they can't just keep changing thier mind about floor coverings willy nilly without causing exasperating problems for the person already two thirds of the way through building the stairs. "Why should it matter to you whether I have tile or vinyl at the top of the stairs?"
By the way, I've been out of the loop for several months, How'd that corrective eye surgery turn out for you? My wife is finally making the big plunge, going in for the 1st consultation in two days.
Mark: I am ecstatic about my lasik surgery. I was 20/400...after the surgery and several weeks..I had 20/20...but had some "ghosting" which was caused by some residual astigmatism. My lasik surgery had an enhancement allowance for each eye..and after both enhancements...my vision is 20/15 with no ghosting. I could not be happier with my doctor.
Make sure that your doctor has a laser that burns as large a diameter of the cornea. This is very important. The "cheap" surgerys have the cheap small diameter lasers that do not give as good of results. Good luck.
Edited 2/26/2003 11:13:29 PM ET by Stan Foster
For safety over the long term, I think it's better simply not to have carpet anywhere on or near the stairs. Carpet wears out or comes loose sooner than any other stair surface materials fail and become dangerous.
-- J.S.
See if this is useful ...
http://www.ricks.edu/Ricks/employee/BARNHILLB/Power%20Point%20Arch%20240/arch%20240-Stairs/sld001.htm
One thing I can add to get a more accurate layout is to use the memory in your calculator to help layout the stringers. Say your rise ends up 7.22" and your run is 10.5". Using the Pythagorean theorum , find the hypotunuse of the triangle and input it into your calculators memory. In this case it is 12.74" Now add the consecutive numbers and write them on a tablet or scrap and use them to lay out. You should be able to guesstimate the decimal equivalent in inches.
Using only a framing square with dogs will sometimes creep the layout and you will have more uncertainty. I still use the framing square to draw the lines but I use the layout marks from the calculator for placing the square accurately.