Hi,
Just had a disturbing revalation; the Rol-Air compressor called “The Bull” is a china made product. Doesn’t say at all on the machine. I noticed no “Made in Italy” label and found a Tai Shen instead. I emailed Rol-Air and was told in fact they are made in china.
I don’t know about the rest of their line. I have one that says made in Italy on it-D100LS3- and I’ve seen the same model with “The Bull” sticker as well.
Rol Air built their reputation with nice Fini pumps and quality measured in years not months. I can’t tell you if the china ones are any good but I won’t own one to find out.
At least they got the name sorta right “The Bull …..”
Like my carpentry teacher always said in a think Irish Brogue:
“keep your wits about ya lads”
Especially when purchasing expensive tools!
Regards,
WArnie
Replies
We start, at this late date, excluding merchandise made in China, or Indonesia or Mongolia, and your going to shop for stuff at the antique tool dealers, flea markets and garage sales. Simply put The USA manufactures nothing of any great significance. Those corporations still having some manufacturing in the USA are shifting it to foreign nations as fast as they can.
Perot's "Giant sucking sound" has come and diminished to a dull roar only because there is nothing left to move overseas. The US doesn't have a manufacturing base any more. The base which was the envy of the world and made the middle class possible and Americans the solid practical people with an understanding that they could move up if they followed the rules and worked hard is gone. The middle class is an endangered species.
As the society bifurcates into rulers and owners standing on top with peons and serfs at their beck and call. The later class can play at ownership and entrepeneurialism but it is a farce. As soon as the overclass decides they want what they have, or decide to put them in their place, resources, employment, credit or the law itself, will be withdrawn and the business or property will be traded for food, water, shelter or security.
Not that the ones on top will be anything but superficially comfortable. Those on top will be spending much of their time and money to keep the unwashed masses at bay. Hiring security guards who they won't quite trust. Building walls which are more a visual that physical barrier and up armoring their useless but comforting SUVs. Wealth concentration and property ownership will become an obsession for the difference between everything and nothing is a single slip or disloyalty to their superior or disloyalty to the class system.
Anyone who doesn't think it can happen needs to look into the post civil war sharecropping system and property exploitation during reconstruction. Researching it, with the understanding that this time it is less about race and more about class, is, IMHO, a window into the most probable future for most of the USA.
I appreciate your warning about this particular compressor but, in a larger sense, you, and most of the American public are twenty years too late to do anything meaningful about it. Give it another five years and you will have a difficult time finding a AC compressor made in the US.
On the up side a lot of the stuff produced in China is pretty good quality. Ought to be as it was made with the very best US technology and manufacturing techniques by workers who are coming out of what the US workers are sinking into, highly motivated.
There may also be a narrow middle path between top and bottom class and their terrified, materially rich, overlord and the belligerent, plucky, looking-to-score serf. Look into the original meaning of journeyman.
Very interesting reply...It's not all about USA though..it's about quality. I shopped for and bought an Italian made compressor. Cost $279 $19 more than the china version! A comparable EmGlo from 20 years ago-$349! I guess the apocalypse is still on the horizon somewhat.I just found some older FHBs and love reading the tool ads! For the most part tools cost much more and not nessasaily better. Would you rather have the 3/4" stoke Sawzall of the 1 1/4" stroke orbital Super Sawzall for the same dollar amount.?! So for as I've seen china has not proven they can manufature quality tools as we're used to seeing. Companies like to try to make you feel that way, but one the growing tool companies in the US is Festool which is ultra qaulity!I think if you really look the tool apocolypse is an episode of Art Bell. Some of the best tools are being made and available now.As well as some of the worst!WArnie
Warnie...
Festool is a German company... So Is Hilti for that matter. They have carved themselves a niche market by providing Ultra High Qualtiy, High Persisioin tools. Something American tool manufactureres should do.... insted they chase the "bottom' line and try to sell on competive price as opposed to higher quality.. or wose yet " High Quality and Low Price". Two items not often found together.
james
james -
Re: "...Festool is a German company... So Is Hilti for that matter..."
...well, Hilti is actually based in the Principality of Liechtenstein http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/editorial/edit_singlepage.jsp?contentOID=60331 , but I understand your point.
tejonista
Used to mess with cars a lot. Worked on a buddys Fiat once. Different size wheel bearing on 3 of the 4 wheels. A mess. In my mind anyone that thinks the Italian engineering is superior to China just hasn't dealt with Italian products much. Good food though. DanT
Yep, German, maybe French, but "Italian quality"?? Yeah, right!
Hilti has started producing tools in China as well :(
Yea, but I still have my Emglo.
> So for as I've seen china has not proven they can manufature quality
> tools as we're used to seeing.My impression is that China will manufacture stuff to exactly the level of quality demanded by their customer (usually the outfit who'll put their label on it), no more, no less. Unfortunately, a lot of brands simply don't bother to demand the proper level of quality.
Shades of the French Revolution a la 2005?
When in the Permian Basin be sure to visit the "Hog Pit Pub and Grub" between Midland and Odessa off Hiway 80 near the Burnout Lounge. Steaks - Burgers - Catfish and always Ice Cold Beer. Soon to be a West Texas dining, dancing and drinking institution.
So where is a product actually made anyway? Is it where the casing is made? Or the bearings? Or the motor? Chances are these days those are three different countries. So Milwaukee still show 'Proudly Made in the USA' stickers but their motors are from Taiwan and bushes for the motors are from Korea. Maybe the sticker should read 'Proudly 44% Made in the USA.' While you're at it, try figuring out how much of your Chevy, Ford or Dodge truck was actually made in the US. I'll bet there are parts from at least a dozen different countries in a modern 'American' vehicle.
Some Chinese tools are design-pirated rubbish and priced low to suit (not low enough, it might be 50% of name brand price but 100% wasted money when it breaks a week later and warranty is useless). But a lot of reputable tool manufacturers source their assembly to China. I have Makita rotary hammer and Hitachi impact driver that both have 'made in China' stickers but they are tough, durable, well-designed tools that have made me money. Many Bosch tools are made in China too.
Warnie, ease up on the prejudice (Italian compressor=good, Chinese compressor=bad) and look more carefully. Good engineering and a corporate dedication to quality are what counts, not where it was 'made'.
"Warnie, ease up on the prejudice (Italian compressor=good, Chinese compressor=bad) and look more carefully. Good engineering and a corporate dedication to quality are what counts, not where it was 'made'."Prejudice huh....Ya ok. I prefer to invest in products with say decades long reputations instead of being politically correct. Unless you have unlimited time you have to rely on certain generalizations. German tool vs. chinese tool? I'll buy German. Call it prejudice call it hard won reputation being given it's due.If my point is being lost I'll restate:
We have reputable co. Rol-Air selling a product that is made "elsewhere" and not labeled as such. This was merley a warning to look a bit closer. I thought I had but assumed no mention meant traditional. I was wrong and informed you all.You also have to admit that at $19 more it's makes it quite easy to avoid china for what ever reason you are comforatble with.Good engineering will not overcome poor metallurgy, cheaper components, and short cuts. You are free to use which ever brand of 125psi "bomb" you prefer with this knowledge. Yea. I bet the Italian is a better welder than a Chinese. I bet the German capicitor is more trustworthy than the Chinese. "Prejudiced" I know. I base it on experience and seeing a Chinese hammer throw shrapnel on impact of a nail!Compressors are different critters than screw drivers and take a bit mkore skill to build.W
Right on dude.
So far as I am concerned China = Crap.
I avoid it as much as possible. Given a choice of a different country of origin, I take it. Nor do I care much about price, I want quality.
Biggest of all, for the last 50 years China has been waging a campaign of genocide in Tibet. They cant crack the adults so much cos they a tough people, so they torture and kill the children.
The west knows this but in the mad scramble to make money everybody 'forgets'.
Shame theres no oil there, then everybody could get upset and demand their rights be upheld.
My money wont be supporting the bastidges.
Whatever it was.................I didnt do it.
Then be real careful and do a lot of research to make sure nothing you buy has Chinese components. That probably means you won't be driving a motor vehicle in the foreseeable future, and finding an acceptable TV or DVD player could be tricky. Hunt around the shoe store until you find something made in a Thai or Indonesian sweatshop rather than a Chinese one.
I'm not apologising for the Chinese and their human rights record. My point merely was that tools these days have components from all over the world that make 'country of origin' less and less meaningful. Lignum est bonum.
All I can say is "thanx dude!"
I was just in the tool place yesterday pricing a rolaire "bull" . I'm gonna go back and make sure that it is actually the Italian - made product. If I wanted generic junk I would just spend half as much and get another craftsman.
Whew! I feel like I just dodged a bullet!
" If I were a carpenter"
The cheaper Rolair compressors like the JC-10 are made in China. Here's what Rolair has to say about the matter:
One of the most frequent questions we receive is, “Are your compressors made in America?” We applaud conscientious buyers who are committed to supporting their country, their neighbors, and are willing to ‘go the extra mile’ to help keep and promote American jobs. It’s this kind of spirit that has helped Rolair flourish through three generations. So before we go any further, let us first say, thank you for your commitment. Beyond that, the short answer is that 93.6 percent of our compressors are assembled right here at our factory in Hustisford, Wisconsin. For the raw numbers, that’s 132 of 141 models. Check out our full list below for specific model information. We realize this may lead to a few other questions, so here are some of our most Frequently Asked Questions:
Why do you use the term “Assembled In the USA” as opposed to “Made In the USA”?
While we agree that Made in America sounds better, we felt the most honest term to use was ‘Assembled’ because not all components on the compressors we build are from America (i.e. Honda engines). Rest assured that any Rolair compressor listed as ‘Assembled in the USA’ has many American-made components, and was built right here in Wisconsin by some of the hardest-working people you’ll ever meet.
Which of your smaller hand carry compressors are assembled in Wisconsin?
The D2002HPV5 and the D2002HSSV5. These two units are still proudly assembled right here in Wisconsin, with our ‘vertical pancake’ tank design still being recognized as a Rolair innovation after 20+ years.
Is the foreign-made product limited to just the smaller hand carry compressors?
Yes. You will notice the limited foreign-made products we offer are only seen in this smaller category. This is because our competition continues to import directly to retailers and sell (often without checking for quality once it hits our shores), making it tougher to compete on pricing alone when you are comparing apples to oranges.
Are there
Your Italian welder is probably an Albanian, or a North African immigrant. You don't always get what you expect.
Re: "Italian compressor=good, Chinese compressor=bad"Many years ago I went to a service call where the woman, an artsy type and very full of herself, had a number of lighting fixtures shipped in special order from Italy. She gushed on and on about the quality and style of these units and how easy the job would be because of how well they were designed. The last point put my teeth on edge.They had to be assembled and hung. I get into it and found the fit and finish to be miserable. Plates, clearly marked and supposed to fit according to their their instructions, didn't line up and needed to be filed with a rat tail file to get them to fit. Cast bits had so much remaining sprue and flash on them that they that I had to take them out to the truck and mount them in a vice to file them in a timely manner. Had to run a tap down the die cast hole so the provided cap screw would thread in properly.It was taking time and she looks at me and tells me I don't know what I'm doing. I'm thinking that gee this Italian unit looks like a dead copy of an American made lamp, I recognized it because I got a similar one at a garage sale and rewired it, but the quality was miserable on her version. I try to tactfully explain that he units were slightly mismanufactured but that with a little extra work, if she wanted me to continue,I should be able to get them to come together. She starts yelling that these units were 'precision made by Italian craftsmen'. As if Italians were genetically incapable of shoddy workmanship. She did everything but directly state I didn't know what I was doing because it was taking so long. I grit my teeth, ought to be a law that any positions involved in service work has to include a dental plan, and gave her the option of having me leave and paying for the time, having my boss send out another electrician or having me continue the job. She chose the last option.
Look,This isn't china v. Italy. Despite the fact the welder at the Fini plant in Italy may any heritage one wishes to imagine it also most likeley has welders who have been there for decades and have perfected their craft and make compressors exclusivley.That deserves support. Rol-Air needs to get the message I think I'm getting the drift of here which is; we will pay more for quality. (How often can I say I paid $19 more for the real thing! Every part says Italy or Germany on it.) Rol-Air has a hard won reputation and we appreciatte that greatly and will support quality. We have noticed with other products from china a glaring lack of quality, fit and finish and despite your best efforts to make sure the china made product is up to your standards we don't trust china. Throw up your hands and say "we can't avoid china" and your giving them license to lower their standards.'Nuff said,W
Re : ..."most likeley has welders who have been there for decades and have perfected their craft"... Perhaps this lends some light as to your confusion. Seems to me with this statement that you don't understand industrial process. Goes back to Henry Ford and some of the original time-motion studies and has changed the world from skilled, and highly paid, workers working dumb machines to low skill, cheap, workers working smart machines. Industrial production isn't about craftsmanship. The larger complex tasks are broken down into very basic steps. These steps are not dependent on the craftsmanship of the worker, in any conventional meaning of the word. The task is set up with jigs, guides and templates so that the quality is built into the process not dependent on the skill of the worker beyond a willingness to comply with basic work rules and remain conscious. The nationality and skill of the worker is immaterial to quality once the industrial process is set up. An example of this is the fast food industry. Used to be the fry cook ran the grill and the fryer. A skilled cook produced well cooked fries and burgers. An unskilled cook poorly cooked food. Go to a small mom and pop burger stand and the quality will vary according to who is doing the cooking and how well trained they are. Go to a McDonalds and the food, to a very high degree, will always be the same. This is because the tools are automated. The grill incorporates controllers to maintain the grill at a constant temperature and times the cooking process so nearly every burger comes out the same tasteless, pureed and boiled grey. All the fries come out uniformly undercooked. Just like American like them or so the marketing research department says.The quality, or lack thereof, is all within the machines and process. I doesn't matter if the operator is a high school dropout, a wino, a retiree looking to pay for their Lipator. And it certainly doesn't matter if the worker is American, Haitian, Russian or Chinese. This keeps the wages low and unions at bay. Skilled workers have some power. Their training has cost the manufacturer money. Loosing their skill set, a skill set that can walk away and go to a competitor, was a problem. With the skills shifted to the machines the labor can leave with little consequence. The worker cannot leave with any unique or valuable skills as these are locked in the machines. This ends the relationship between labor and management. Used to be when you took a job they got your labor and you got both paid and trained at a skill. The worker left better trained than when they were hired. This is no longer the case. Work twenty years at a McDonalds and your skill set has not changed.This has several consequences. The worker, justifiably, shows less dedication to the job and the employer shows less dedication to the worker. The worker tries to do the minimum possible. This is offset by the poverty level, lack of options for staying alive, of the local population, so China has an advantage. Even in highly desperate and controlled nations and populations like China the management, seeing workers as the single largest source of variability, tries to eliminate as many workers as possible.The other point your overlooking is that nations, and the amount of quality and consistency built into their industrial plants, changes with time. Used to be 'Made in Japan' was seen only on cheap plastic toys and shoddy discount tools and 'Made in USA' was a stamp of quality. Now I see the discount goods, what few things we still produce, coming from the US. Now the most reliable cars and technical devices on the planet are made in Japan. China has gone the same route. Used to be dime store dodads mismolded and sloppy. Now the better of their factories produce goods on par with any of the major industrial nations. And the quality is getting better.As for your assertion that we will pay for quality it doesn't ring true. Largely we now, with corporations no longer making their own parts, pay for a label stuck on the side. And even then most won't pay for that label. The lowest bidder for similar perceived quality always wins. Which is why your going to find it increasingly difficult to buy from a western industrialized nation. Much less American.
Yup, if you were willing to pay for quality, WallMart wouldn't exist..
Phill Giles
The Unionville Woodwright
Unionville, Ontario
"Perhaps this lends some light as to your confusion. Seems to me with this statement that you don't understand industrial process."Unfortunatly I fear your not looking close enough. I'm speaking of compressors in this instance not screwdrivers.Do you own a compressor? Is it a quality compressor that one could expect to last say 20 years? Do you know how to weld or can you spot a quality weld? I look at my Rol-Air and see the most perfect weld I have ever seen! I have minor welding experience and never approach this quality weld. Perhaps it's machine made I don't know but it is textbook perfect.This is not easy. This if hand done represents quite a few years of experience especially if it's done on a production level. I could not do it on my best day, not once.Your argument fits for assembly line work. Slapping together B&D Firestom drills for instance. That drill fails so what. Welding is a hard won skill. When one is considering a product that will be a job site abused and have to hold 125psi of pressure and remain safe for decades you are speaking of high calibre skill. These are certified products.You are right about Japan. Used to be Made in Japan = junk. We see how that has changed. But look at the cause of the change. It's not some natural evolution. Japan is a free country. A modern country. My view is free workers work better and make better products. China is getting quite good at automated products like electronics where they are blueprint driven but items that need skill and understanding ie; compressors, I don't trust them.Also your argument fails miserably when one considers ultra quality factory goods like Festool. Festool is expanding rapidly in USA. Doubt you'll find tham at HD ( but HD does sell Hilti so...) I wonder how many "high school dropout, a wino, a retiree looking to pay for their Lipator" Festool has employed? Possibly an entire force by your argument.There will always be high quality tools for those of us willing to pay. As I've seen on this forum a before a wonderful quote:
"Buy the best and cry once" Is much cheaper in the long run.Like a buddy of mine who LOVES his Ryobi because it always breaks before the warranty is up and he can get free new ones!. He thinks that's the way to go.I don't.W
Years ago, the best bicycle frames were hand-assembled in Italy. Since welding would take the temper out of the high-strength steel tubing used to assemble the bikes, they were brazed together with bronze "lugs" at the joints. In fact, all but the cheapest "department store" frames were built this way.When vendors wanted to start selling aluminum bikes, they couldn't find a suitable replacement for brazing. Aluminum soldering could be used, but didn't produce the required combination of strength and flexibility needed. Gluing was also tried, but suffered failure problems. So one of the vendors worked out a scheme to rapidly (and simultaneously) weld the aluminum bikes together in an automated welding jig, with the welds being produced so rapidly that the temper of the tubing was not lost.They found when they did this that they got a frame that was "truer" than a hand-assembled frame, and the machine could make welds that looked as nice as a hand-brazed joint.After several years (and probably a few dope slaps) they realized that the same basic technology could be applied to steel frames, so now the vast majority of steel frames are welded in an automatic jig. It produces a frame that is cheaper and better quality than a run-of-the-mill hand-brazed frame, and relatively little skill is needed.Of course, custom steel frames are still hand brazed, and some very expensive "Rolls-Royce" class frames are hand brazed (in Italy, of course), but you pay a lot more for this, and don't necessarily get a frame any more durable or lighter than an automatically welded frame.
You almost got it...The tubing in bicycles is usually butted for this and other reasons, thicker and stronger where it should be. It takes SKILL to not draw out the temper when brazing or welding. Bikes genrally have to look good as well so it's a high art IMO. It's taken Taiwan years to approximate what was being done in the high end bike industry. Some argue they still aren't there!The idea that machines are perfect or those that oversee them are as well is folly. There is more to numbers when making things. I'm a silversmith as well as carpenter. I'm good at it and can predict EXACTLY what's going on with the metal by sight. My solder joints look much better than machine made BY FAR! Seems like 1 second or 20º over heating can pit silver solder. I don't know how or when it happened but I never pit my seams and like I said I KNOW what's going on with the metal. You can't make a machine that duplicates art/craft. I can spot machine made jewelry on site as well. I used to repair plenty of it! I've NEVER had a piece of my work returned because it failed. Not one and I've made probably 20,000 peices over the years.But back to bikes.Nowadays carbon fiber and titanium are common with high end bikes and these need a whole new technology to assemble properly. Many of these firms got started by ex NASA types when the aero space industry took a nose dive in the 90's. Welding titanium is no home project.Most high end steel frams are hand welded! Brazing is too heavy and a savings of grams makes a huge difference. Some boutique bikes, Rivendell etc.. still braze investment cast lugs but generally speaking they are retro not cutting edge.My ride:Ibis SS ( hand made by Wes!) with Koski ridgid fork ( hand made!). Hand made WTB, Bontrager, and Shimano wheels( these wheels have over 30,000 miles on them and are still perfectly true, HAND MADE!) WTB Mt. drop bars, Synchros seat post, Chris King headset and bottom bracket (I think?) Speedplay Frog pedals and Shimano XTR for the rest. My bike cost over $3500 but I have 30,000+ miles on it and it still feels brand new. What's that .10 a mile so far...Buy the best and cry once!W
Not to say you did'nt do the right thing but... I would have showed her all the defects and explained that it was going to take some extra time/$ to fix them. It would have been a lot harder for her to argue the point then.
Re: "I would have showed her all the defects and explained that it was going to take some extra time/$ to fix them."I tried to but she refused to believe that her high-dollar units produced by Italian craftsmen were anything but perfect. If there was a problem then, in her mind, it wasn't caused by her buying a defective product. Her pride, judgement, ego and undying faith in European craftsmanship were on the line. Rational arguments were clearly not an option.
Ah! What you should have said is that those fixtures take more craftsmanship to install.
Hilti is actually not German
Just a correction, but Hilti is in fact a company from Lichtenstein, started by 2 brothers Hilti.
They are listed on the Swiss Stock Exchange.
Unfortunately, one of the brothers was a Nazi sympathizers, which may be what a lot more people in the US become if there are not decent paying jobs left.
Hilti started a manufacturing plant in China in 1995, not sure which markets that plant serves...
Since companies are now multi national, they do not have an incentive to manufacture in the US.
As for 20 years too late - Well I have always said, better late than never. I have been looking for a US made compressor, but the new Ridgid, which you can carry in two pieces, is just such a great design concept, I have to reward it, regardless of where it was made.