Two things.
First, really just a question. In the pic, what is the appropriate way of addressing the different ridge heights at the location marked?
Second, if you look just below, there’s a dead valley. That can’t stay, but the rooms, the walls . . . changing the layout there is going to be a hard sell. So IS there a solution beyond shortening the wall? FWIW the dead spot is 3’5″, and yes, we get snow.
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Replies
what is the appropriate way of addressing the different ridge heights...
By making the archy frame and roof this hisself!
The problem is in the footprint.
Among others.
Well, at least I'm laughing. Time for full disclosure here. Me, not an architect. Not even a designer. Now frankly, I kind of like the irregularity of the footprint. I think it makes it very non cookie cutter. But hey, whadda I know? I barely even have a dog in the race beyond just an interest in those things that jump out at me when I look at a pic like this. So I look, I don't know the answer, and hey, BT is here for learnin. And that's all I'm getting at. I suspect that for a full time framer the ridge thing is a non issue. I just don't know what it is they do to deal with the loads correctly.
The dead valley, that one I dont see being fixable without changing the footprint. But thats guesswork. But by all means. Have at it. No hurt feelings on this end."A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
From that view it looks like you've already solved the ridge height thing. Post your sketchup file and I'll take a stab at the dead valley.
You could cantilever the roof a foot or so in the area behind the 2 rear offsets. That should line the roof up. A cricket should shed the water at the front "dead valley", if you ahve enough roof slope to make it work. Or you could slope the right side of the front offset up towards the 2nd floor more. But without specific dimensions, wall heights, and pitches I don't know if it would work out or not.
Men are Like copiers
You need them in reproduction but that's about it.
RW,Why do you have the jog in this section that I marked?The dead valley is easy by putting in a cricket there. That same roof is done like that all the time.If you have to have that jog there you can still have the ridges be the same size. The wall that you have jogged in is creating the ridge difference because it makes a shorter span so the ridge height will be lower.All you have to do is put a small kneewall on top of that back wall that is jogged in or set the rafters on top of the ceiling joists. It all depends on how far the wall is jogged in and the pitch.I've done this exact thing many times so that the whole roof is the same rafter length, pitch and roof plane. The only difference is the birdsmouth location changes to the shorter wall and you'll have a bigger overhang which is the distance of the shorter wall. All your fascia lines and soffits will be the same level also.I drew a little cross section of what these always look like.
Joe Carola
Joe,
You are the man!! I was looking at that and thinking, aww that broken hip isn't a big deal. It's fine and just add a cricket at that dead valley, then you come in with a knee wall. I doubt I'd have ever thought of that. No question, you are the king here.
About 3 years ago this coming May we framed a roof that was cut up in one section and there was like a 9" broken hip. I never even thought about adusting the wall height of that one small wall. Overhang wouldn't have even been that much different. Thanks for posting that. Now I've got one more way of looking at things
:-) Who would have known wrestling Tom Cruise would have made you so smart :-)
http://pic9.picturetrail.com/VOL293/2163851/4215098/128790997.jpg
Tim,I love you man!!!!!The roof he has can be done easily but it's not going to look right if it's a small difference. It will look more like a mistake when you have something to small. Especially since it's the longest roof on the house.Sometiimes you have to have that jog and putting the kneewall or laying them out on top of a 2x nailed to the top of the ceiling joists or sometimes they might land in between the ceiling joists on blocks. Doing that every one of your rafers are the same length and your whole roof is the same.So the overhang is a lttle different but that jog in the room betwen the two different span walls will break that up but at least the whole roof will lookk nice from the front and back of the house."Who would have known wrestling Tom Cruise would have made you so smart"I don't know about that. Instead of kicking his A$$ because he wanted to take my ex to the prom I should've followed his A$$ to Hollywood........;-)Joe Carola
Edited 2/8/2006 11:46 pm ET by Framer
Thats fairly ingenuitive. To answer the question, (and maybe this is stating the really obvious) the jog is because the back walls jog, and at that bump out on the back, the wall one intersects is 1 ft different than the wall where it returns. So extrapolated out, that's 21 feet of roof on the back where you have the extra overhang via your proposal. Not that I thought of it, or that I'd dismiss it. Warming up on the idea even as I write.
I guess my concern with the cricket probably lies in past history. I've seen them used, I personally think the dead valley is a dead end detail, and I see that kind of thing fail. So maybe thats an installation issue. Sound theory, poorly applied. Thanks for the response."A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
RW,Since it's only 1' difference that means your ridge height for example using an 8/12 pitch would only be 4" difference. That's going to look like a mistake in my eyes.If you don't like my first suggestion with the 21' of different overhangs you can frame the roof by running that ridge the same height all the way through and in that section you can cut a slightly different pitch on those rafters in that section only.Let's say your run is 15' for the bigger span with an 8/12 and your run for your smaller span is 14'. Your pitch for the smaller span would be 8-9/16/12 pitch and the overhang on this side would only be 7/8" shorter.You carry the main pitch over to the upper wall and start your higher pitch at that wall and you'll have a small rake on that end.Joe Carola
Edited 2/9/2006 1:37 am ET by Framer
RW,I just thought about it again and realized you don't have to change the pitch you can just continue the main ridge all the way across until you hit the second floor wall and then lower the ridge at that point but you'll have a small rake there.Joe Carola
RW,
Disclaimer: I am not all that familiar with Nebraska as far as snow and winter conditions, maybe its not much of an issue.
BFWIW, in my limited experience with heavy snow areas and roofs I would really try to avoid anything like that dead end valley, even if the cricket "might" work. I say might because every winter you may end up with that valley 5'+ deep of snowdrift that stays like that all winter. Sooner or later you will have a problem. It might not be to bad depending on house orientation to prevailing winter winds, etc. that could avoid the perpetual snowdrift.
What are you thinking of for finish roofing? Dark roofing will have a certain amount of thawing (from the sun) that will generate ice dams no matter how much insulation is in there. Again house orientation might solve or cause more problems. Can't tell from your drawing but where are your doors and windows located? I have seen designs that looked rather neat (because of the footprint) in the summer but end up in winter with icicles over a picture window or right at the doorway. I only mention this because now is the time to plan for things like this and easily avoid a PITA when you live there.
Surely, those with more experience may have a solution to that dead valley, but i think it would be best to avoid it if at all possible.
CRF
Snow is an issue. Not every year. Kind of sporadic. Some times we get mild winters all winter long, other times the snow is knocking out the power before Halloween hits.
Asphalt roofing is the most common, the desire here is standing seam metal, dark color. Its drawn pretty much charcoal. These are details that aren't fleshed out yet. i don't want to even think about color and finishes when the footprint is still in the air.
But Framer had some good ideas and a redraw (sorry Blue, one of the advantages of SU is you can redraw in about ten seconds) moved the roofline in the back and slid one of the upper bedrooms. Now, no more dead valley, no more jogged ridge. So I think we can say case closed for the moment."A bore is a man who, when you ask him how he is, tells you." -Bert Taylor
It is hard to tell from the attachment. If you can give more details, that would help. I.E. how much snow? Better descrpition of ridge issue. What exposure does dead vally have ? What type of roof material? etc.
Rw, you're experiencing a classic case of cheap computer generated architectural programming! Welcome to the world of frustrating elevations and 3d views!
Like Joe said, a simple adjustment on the heels of the front roof members would solve the ridge situation. If that adjustment is made, you'll simply have to decide whether you want level fascias, or different width projections. Something will have to give!
The cricket situation isn't really that big of a deal, if you do it right. The biggest mistake that most framers/builders make is to make that cricket so it comes to a point. That is a very bad thing to do in an area that has snow. It will most certainly create an ice dam situation. I've successfully fixed a couple of those in my career by simply extending the cricket past the wall by a minumum of 4". I normally like to go bit farther...6, 8 or even 12", depending on the exterior trim details.
Alternately, you could eliminate that cricket by raising the heel heights in the back and/or lowering the slope in the back too. This will effectively raise your fascia line, but since it doesn't tie in with anything else back there, it won't be too much of a problem. It does cause the corner on the right side to have an elevation change, but if eliminating that cricket is a high priority, then you'll have to allow for some sort of creative solution.
Personally, I wouldn't run so much from that cricket. You have a lot of area to install one and the slope would be more than sufficient to drain off that amount of roof. The key is to extend beyond the wall so as to not constrict the flow.
blue