After our roof was completed, I went into the attic and noticed over 260 shiners.
As background, the roofers had removed our old asphalt shingles, then attached 1/2 inch plywood over our existing 1/2 plywood using 8 penny (2 and 3/8 inch) smooth shank nails. The roofers used a nail gun. So the shiners are going through the new plywood, then the existing plywood before missing the rafters. There are 44 rafters (22 on each side of the peak) that are each 16 feet long.
So, here is my question. What do I do now that the roof is complete?
1) Leave it alone, and hope the shiners don’t pop through the underlayment and asphalt shingles?
2) Replace the new roof, due to sloppy workmanship? If so, the new plywood may need to be removed since it would be difficult to hammer out all the shiners. I don’t want to go this route, if it can be avoided.
3) Try to apply an adhesive from the attic side to most of the shiners. The adhesive would hopefully hold each shiner in place so it would not work its way up through the roofing material. If I use an adhesive, what would you recommend?
Thank you for your sage advice.
Replies
Your roofers were amazingly inaccurate with their nail guns. But that is one disadvantage of a gun. With a hammer you know if you missed a rafter.
I would say that it's unlikely that the nails will work out as you fear. I don't see that there would be enough movement of any kind to cause it. I have worked in many attics peppered with shingle nails coming in and some have been there for many decades, yet I never noticed any ruining a roof by surfacing.
Thank you for your reply.
Since I'm still worried, could you suggest an adhesive that could be applied from the attic at the point where the nail penetrates the plywood?
If you're really obcessed with it you could apply a spring nut to each nail.https://www.grainger.com/product/GRAINGER-APPROVED-4-Rectangular-Spring-Nut-1LAT3
Hi Mike: I will look into spring nuts. I really appreciate the suggestion
An easier option: bend the shiners over. I wouldn't clench them completely, though - trying to bang the ends of the nails into the sheathing might cause the sheathing to separate from the rafters. But just bending them over - more of a half-clinch - will better secure the new layer of sheathing to the original.
Would you suggest a hammer or pliers to bend them over? I am thinking pliers, since I am worried that a hammer could possibly push the nails up through the roofing material if not careful.
Pliers should do the trick - much easier to be precise than with a hammer. You could even put a little curl in the nails if you want to ensure they won't back out.
Hi Mike: Thanks for your advice. I really appreciate it.
If you want to bend them I would suggest using a small diameter pipe. Just slip it over the nail up to the ceiling a lever it over. The closer the fit over the nail the closer you can get to bending it right at the sheathing. Another possibility if you have room is to get the nail tight in the claws of a hammer and lever it perpendicular to the claws. This is a simple technique for removing nails, and you might even have enough grip to pull the nails out from below.
I like the small diameter pipe idea. Thank you.
You have one layer of shealthing nailed to the rafters. The second layer is now nailed to the first that is attached to the rafters.
What do you imagine is going to happen to that top layer of sheathing? The nails work themselves back upwards and cause a shingle failure? I have never been in an attic that didn't have a bed of nails as a ceiling - though most attics I go into are close to 100 years old and have had many roofs installed in their history.
If you are worried probably the easiest thing is to take some spray foam and bead from the line of shiners over to the rafter. Maybe go for great stuff wall and floor - that is often used to glue subfloor to joists and is quite strong.
Thank you. I will look into great stuff wall and floor.
Seems to me that about the only shiners I've seen back out were roofing nails put into cracks or voids. Bending or clinching the sheathing nails them over may actually loosen the grip from the head to bottom of sheathing but surely a good bending would prevent backing out..
If it were my personal property I'd leave the shiners alone but include it my personal annual inspection. Which is now on a rotation of about 8 years.
I marked several of the nails with a Sharpie when I first discovered the problem. If a nail backs out, I will know based on the Sharpie mark. I will certainly initiate an annual inspection. Thank you.
3 1/2" nails are spikes not 8's and that crap should make you take a close work at the roofing job. Anyone with framing gun experience can tell when they are missing by the sound and bounce of gun. They should have been using 8 penny ring shanked nails
Hi Makita888: Those 8 penny nails are 2 and 3/8 inches. The 3 1/2 inch number was a typo.
I agree that the work was sloppy and that the nail gun operator should have known the nails were missing their mark. I would have preferred ring shank, but this is where we are.
Thank you for your comment and if you have any further thoughts, please let me know.
This brings back memories. But first, the clinching suggestion are appropriate in the circumstance.
Nailers were introduced in the Midwest shortly after I started working on a framing crew - early 70's. Our boss didn't believe in them until some of the crew leads bought their own and started using them. Since the crew leads were paid on a SF basis, it definitely penciled out. But our boss would come through on an inspection and any nail that missed had to be driven out from underneath. Not an easy task on the tail end of a rafter. The other qualifier was that we couldn't snap lines, so you had to learn to nail precisely over a 48" span. We learned quickly.
More geezer talk...I've seen skilled nailin' gunner not make 6 shiners in a roof with out any chalk lines. For shiners needing removal I have a long cats paw with a countersunk hole in the base. Put countersink on hole, hammer tap on head, shiner history.
Hi pmr49: Which clinching suggestions do you think are best to use in this situation?
Thanks
I would use the smallest diameter strong-enough pipe and flatten or file the leading edge. Get the nail most of the way over and finish with a hammer or block of wood and hammer if the nail is very tight to the rafter.
Hi pmr49: I really appreciate flattening or filing the pipe leading edge.
Thanks for your great solution.
That's a bummer about those shiners on your new roof. I feel your pain, as I'm dealing with a roof issue too.