I’m getting quotes for a new roof. One contractor uses GAF Timberline 30 year shingles, another uses the equivalent in Certainteed brand.
1. Anyone have a preference one way or the other on the brands? They seem to be pretty similar to me.
2. Both brands have an upgrade to a 40 year shingle. Is it worth the additional expense?
Thanks
Stuart
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Replies
Stuart, I have been going through the same quandry. Around here in western Ky. the two choices are GAF Timberline and Owens-Corning Oakridge. All the residential from cheap to expensive houses seem to use the 30 year. The difference in price goes from $40 a square for the 30 year to $57 a square for the 40 year. I personally do not think the 40 year shingle will look much better than the 30 after 25 to 30 years. I have been told by GAF technicians that the only difference is the amount of asphalt thickness between the two. So I think the 40 in 30 years will become just as dull, loose just as much granules as the 30 year. So I am going with the 30 year. It came down to color for me as far as brand. I wanted a brown color. But the GAF has the shadow accent and there is too much of a mottled(pock-a-dotted look to me. So I am going with the 30 year teak color in Owens-Corning. I also wanted the algae resistent shingle because we get black streaking real bad on roofs here. AR is available in both brands here. As far as durability I think they both are the same thickness and seem to glue down about the same. I did notice that the tongues of the top laminate when I pryed them apart had three glue lines for the GAF and only two for the Owens Corning. But both seem to lay equally flat over time. Just my thoughts. Tony
neither one a u guys say how big your roof is.. but lets say 20 sq.
the difference in matl cost is $340 plus tax / 10 years = $34 a year..
all things being equal, always go for the upgrade from 30 to 40 years..
and all things are relative.. will the first shingle last 30 years ? who knows.. will the 2d shingle last 40 years ? will one last 10 years longer than the other maybe.. but for $340 i'd choose the 40 year shingle.. i'd also choose the Certainteed over the GAF.. but that's my preference...Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
It is a very tough sell around here. The GAF supplier here doesn't really want to fool with the upgrades. They stock the 30 year and can deliver the next day. While the 40 year is special order. One of their best salesman told me there have been only 4 upgrades in his 15 years and their GAF warehouse they get all their shingles doesn't stock them(40). Now, lets look at the math. The 30 year is $40 dollars a square and the 40 year is $57 dollars a square. For 25% more warranty it is costing you 42% more money. To me it is clearly a racket. For most people it is an upgrade to go from the 3 tab to the architectural. I think as time goes on and it can be proven that the 40 year truly last longer there will be more upgrades. Also if the suppliers had them both in stock where people could visually compare and the saleperson would actually promote them, they would sell more. I do agree with you in general it pays to go with better quality. By the way what do you have on your roofs? Tony
"The 30 year is $40 dollars a square and the 40 year is $57 dollars a square. For 25% more warranty it is costing you 42% more money."
Actually, it's 33.3% more warranty. And you're only taking into account the cost of the shingles - Not the installation.
Look at it this way: A typical tear-off and re-roof might be $200 a square with 30 year shingles. (The shingles are inclued in that price) Divide the $200 by 30 years, and the roof costs you $6.67 per square per year.
Spens the extra $17 to upgrade to 40 year shingles, and you get $217 divided by 40 years, or about $5.43 per square per year.
"To me it is clearly a racket."
Just because people don't like them where you are doesn't mean it's a racket. Remember that things vary a great deal from one region to another.
Around here, it's much easier to get the 40 year shingles. Most yards don't stock them, but their distribution centers do. And they seem to sell fairly well.
"By the way what do you have on your roofs?"
I admit that I didn't put the 40 year shingles on the spec house I built. Just didn't figure it would be a selling point, so I wouldn't get my money back out of 'em.
But when I re-shingle the house I live in now, you can bet the better ones will go on.If a child lives with approval, he learns to live with himself.
Touche' on the math. I guess it is a regional thing. You know there is a 50 year shingle in most lines and so this discussion could get even more complicated. I do think it basiclly boils down to the difference in the look between the 30vs 40vs 50. I really don't think the shingle manufacturers really know whether these shingles are going to last 30-50 years. I do feel the 40 and 50 year shingles are going to look real crappie after 30 years for the most part with the dullness, loss of granules, and algae streaking so that most people who really worry about looks are going to replace them anyway. So lets upgrade; 40 or 50 year shingles instead of 30 year; 30 lb felt instead of 15lb. Maze double-dipped ring shanked roofing nails instead of grip-tite from Lowe's. Copper step and counter flashing instead of aluminum. Hip and ridge shingles instead of cut up tab shingles. Copper drip edge instead of aluminum. Ice and Water membrane at eaves, in valleys, along sidewalls and headwalls, and at rakes. So you see roof upgrades can go on and on and they all have some merit. Where do you stop. I stop at 30 year architectural shingles!!!! Tony
"Ice and Water membrane at eaves, in valleys,..."
That isn't an upgrade. That is the acceptable minimum.
I have no first hand experience to base this on but I have heard from several sources that when selling the house, a nice roof won't help much. A worn out roof hurts, but all other conditions equal each other.
Rich Beckman
Another day, another tool.
"The 30 year is $40 dollars a square and the 40 year is $57 dollars a square. For 25% more warranty it is costing you 42% more money."
WHAT!
I never heard of cash and carry shingles.
Now there where then that makes sense.
But since the is little bitty detail that you are forgetting about your numbers don't make any sense.
tony... my favorite asphalt shingle is Certainteed's Hatteras.... a 40 year shingle rated for 110 MPH, with an 8" exposure x 8" tab...
i can sell 'em like it was water to a man in the desert..here's the Newport Green..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thanks for the pictures. Looks like a nice shingle and I'm sure worth the money. I have seen that shingle on houses but not locally. Certainteed can be special ordered here. But mostly they are the hallmarks or the presidential. What looks good to me about the hatteras is it lays basically flat like the tab shingle (flat look) but has the quality. But it is not necessary for me. Tony
I just went through this decision when I re-roofed recently. Read the warranty fine print carefully. It is totally dependant on the installation, the installer, the underlayment you use, the number & type of nails used per shingle, etc. This warranty is totally in favor of the manufacterer, not the homeowner (surprise) and gives them several "outs" to nullify the warranty. So choose carefully and buy what you like, forget the "warranty". It is only a selling point by the manufacturer and probably won't be worth the paper it's written on if you can find that paper and the original reciept when you need it in 39-1/2 years. Good luck with the roofing project.Experienced, but still dangerous!
I just looked at GAF's web page when this came up. I see that the will now warrantee against installion defects. It looks like you have to hae a certified installer.
I did not get into reading the fine print, but it looks like there might be some options there.
It looks like you have to hae a certified installer.
This is true.
But, but, its SUPPOSED to taste like that!
Mike,
Side note to this discussion, but you always post intricate patterns in shake, do you do this yourself?
Always look real good, add's character... summed up... pretty cool Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
yes, around here .. and most of new england .. you either shingle or go home...
so.. me and my guys shingle ( shakes are for someone else... they do them but they are sort of a '60's - '70's fad around here.. kinda went out with A-frames )
Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike, correct my midwestern ignorance,
what's the difference between shakes and shingle?
Always thought they were called shakes? oh well, guess I's stupid :)Never be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
shingles are sawn and tapered, usually 18" for reds , 16" for whites
shakes are split, traditionally with a froe... the froe was driven into the butt and then pulled up on the handle.... this rotates the froe and "shakes " the split.. shakes don't have much taper.. they are usually about 24"..
a lot of shakes are resawn so they have a split face and a sawn back.. shakes are typically red cedar.. but all of them could be any native wood too, like oak, pine, cypress..
shakes are typically laid with an interleave of roofer's felt over the top of each courseMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Thank You for the explanationNever be afraid to try something new. Remember, amateurs built the ark, Professional build the Titanic.
Last week Me and my guys installed a 9 square, 4 sided hip roof; using Oakridge Pro 40 series shingles. The shingle color was Harbor Blue. I could not get this shingle color in a 30 year dimensional...2 different supply yards told me that this color only came in the 40 year or a 50 year shingle. Paid 58 per square plus tax. I guess blue is a tough color to manufacture, eh?
For you guys comparing pricing, In the past, on most 30 year dimensionals, I've used standard 25 year 3 tabs for the ridge capping...so long as the colors match. But, the 40 year seamed a good bit thicker to me, and since Harbor Blue was not an option in a 25 year 3 tab anyway, I had to order the custom 40 yr ridge capping also...which came at a hefty price of $36 per box ( you get 20 l.f. out of a box). This adds up fast if you got a lot of ridge work ( which being a 4 sided hip, I had a fair amount of ridge capping). I was impressed with the pre-cut ridge shingles and expect I will use them in the future on all 40 year roofs, but not so certain about using them on the 30yr ones. Anyone else have an opinion on this?
Also, when installing starter strips, I used to cut the tabs off a bundle of regular shingles and use these for starters....lately though I've found it much more economicxal and faster to just buy a bundle of regular starter shingles. They only cost me $16 and they will do 120 L.F. per bundle. You break each starter shingle apart down the middle ( they are already pre-cut) to get 2 full pieces out of each. Was fast and simple to do. Anyone else going to the starter strips nowadays rather than cutting your own?
Davo
This is one of my favorite topics---and a good thing--- because Ihave this discussion with customers every day.
regaurding shingle warranty------remember that about 2 years ago all the major shingle manufacturers played a game of " don't pick up the soap"---trying to screw with each other and match or top each others warranty. As a result----shingles sold a couple -3 years ago as 25 year shingles ane now marketed as 30 year shingles.----shingles formerly sold as 30 year shingles are now marketed as 40 year shingles. shingles formerly sold as 40 year shingles are the new 50 year shingles.
no change in the actual shingle---only the warranty has changed.
so---in my usual product line the choice is 30,40 or 50 year shingles.don't even consider the 40 year shingle----your real choice is between 30 and 50 year shingles.In my product line the big jump in price is from 30 to 40 year shingles with a negligable price increase from 40 to 50 year shingles. If you are willing to pay the difference between 30 and 40 year shingles, the 50 year shingle is a BARGAIN.
Are the 50 year shingles worth the money----absolutely. What did I put on my own house? A shingle currently marketed as a 50 year shingle.( although at the time it was a 40 year warranty LOL)On my house the difference in material cost was a modest $300----easy decision.
We are currently installing 140 square of 50 year shingles on a very high 7/12 roof.
BTW Davo----trying out the special starter on this job----works great and very cost effective also.50 year shingles are giving the shingle shear a work out though.
Anyone know any certified roofers for fiberglass shingles ? I have never met one. As far as collecting on a shingle warranty claim, we have found that your odds are better playing Powerball.
carpenter in transition
tim.. me and my guys are certified.. most mfr's have certification programs...not very difficult .. but at least it means you've read the directions on the wrapper..
and , yes.. i've collected on shingle warranties.. most guys who have been roofing for a while have also..
we're not roofers.. but we do a lot of roofsMike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike,
Are the certification procedures separate for each manufacturer ? We are not roofers, either, and we don't do a lot of roofs. Nor do we want to get more involved. We have the subs that are happy to do it. Most have complained that the manufacturers are minimally supportive, at best on residential warranty claims. GAF has been especially poor. Quite often we have found that the warranty reps always tend to find something that they deem an improper install and deny the claim. Our commercial guys who are certified to do Carlisle's and Firestone's various systems don't seem to have the same issues. But there, the owner is buying a separate warranty.
carpenter in transition
30, 40, 50 year shingles on a house? The roofs probably the most important part of the structure of a house; right - keeps the water, snow and wind on the outside. It would seem prudent to use the longest lasting material you could afford for the roof. Ideally the shingles or whatever material is chosen, would last the life of the house.
22 years ago, I helped to partially re-roof a barn in rural Albion, Pennsylvania. The barn roof was slate shingle - on a barn. The barn was just over a hundred years old - I know this because the year 1881 was woven into the slate shingle with a different color of slate. It get's better, not only did the farmer who built this barn use slate shingles 100 years ago - the wood planks on the roof , 14 to 16 inches wide, were american chestnut.
The farmer, who's barn this was, insisted that we carefully pull up the iron spikes that were holding the slate shingles on and reuse the shingles. When we put the slate shingles back on, we used new square iron spikes to put them back on again - carefully. Did all of this cost more and take a lot of time? sure - but like the farmer said " My great grandfather built this barn - I'll be damned if I'll let it fall apart". I still remember that summer working on that barn roof - and the spread that farmers wife put on the table everyday for lunch. The barn is still there, and probably will be there long after I'm gone.
It doesn't seem like things are built to last anymore - everyone seems to take the short view of things.
tim.. yes , each mfr.... go online to find the specific program for each one..Mike Smith Rhode Island : Design / Build / Repair / Restore
Mike has some good ponts about the 40 year shingles. The labor is by far the biggest part of the expense of re-roofing.
I think the 40 year shingles I've seen have more "depth", and look better from the ground. That may or may not matter, depending on your roof pitch.
Another thing to think about - How soon do you want to go through this again? The 40 year shingles just might make the roof last long enough that you won't have to worry about it again in your lifetime. (Depending on your age, of course)
So I'd suggest the upgrade.
Persian Proverb: Trust in God, but tie your camel.
I was thinking about that...I'm 47 now, so either shingle will probably last as long as I need it to. On the other hand, if and when I ever sell the house, having 40 year shingles on it could be a selling point.
I'll find out how much of an extra it will be for the 40 year ones before I make a final decision.