Replies

1. 
   Hazlett | Oct 31, 2006 02:55pm | #1

   2 hammerhome,

    that's a good observation--------

    unfortuneately--- you are diagnosing  the situation from a picture------ without some of the relevant facts.

    In FHB---- there is usually a LOT of info--- that doesn't make it into the article for a variety of  reasons. that particular article was meant to illustrate a particular process--- NOT be a case study of that particular project.

   some additional facts the reader wouldn't know---because   they were not included in the article.

   A) those photo's were taken 3-4 years ago

   B) the roof on the left---- is an unheated garage. additionally-- it drains onto an unheated---wide open porch roof. Ice dams are not an issue. There was one triangular shaped area roughly 4 ft. x 7 ft. that was entirely covered with ice gaurd----as it WAS over a heated area----- but in actuality---- ice dams have never been a problem on that house

   C) A year or so previously, i had done a largely similar repair on the  OTHER side of that  lower ridge. THAT repair was done as a closed cut or " California valley"---- because that valley was what  I call a blind valley---- and the closed cut style made it easier and more effective to install a EPDM pan at the foot of the valley and  wrap it around the corner and also under the siding and corner posts.

   D) I know this particular family---and that particular house---quite well---and  personally

   E) when that project was done( November)-- it's not  feasible---- even if I wanted to------------ to open up someones' roof starting a repair---- and then blithely announce   " suprise--- I am afraid of the liability here---- I won't proceed as planned---AND we  insist upon replacing the ENTIRE roof--- you are gonna owe me $8000 instead of a few  hundred $$$

   F) also---not discussed in the article------ in this case I was part of the homeowners medium range financial planning involving -----sons finishing college vs. the best time to replace a roof

    G)--- also---what wasn't included in the house ( see item F) was that a year or two later a large section of that house was  re-sided to correct another  siding/housewrap issue------AND we completely tore off and  put a new roof on that house useing 50 year Elk shingles

    H) there were 6-7 OTHER  items that I could mention here----that went into  the reasoning between the mutual decision of myself and the homeowners---and there long range planning

   In short--- the article was meant to illustrate a specific process---a " how to" if you will. Adequately   covering items  A-H plus the 6-7 additional items was well beyond the scope of the article. covering THOSE items would have made for an article  approx. 3 times as long as the article that WAS published-----AND that article, 3 times as long would NOT have covered to  " how to" aspects that ACTUALLY  were intended to be covered.

    that's a smidgeon of---" the rest of the story"

    I hope that clarifies things a bit

   Best wishes to ALL,

   Stephen

    BTW---- forgot to mention today------  RE: the lack of felt.

   I would consider the presence of felt to be just about ZERO protection in the event of an icedam.  In my area( 200,000 plus), BY far  the typical houses we encounter have  ZERO felt under the shingles. the house shown in the article---is actually   not typical of my usual  customers homes---- being decked in osb.

    Typically, we are working on houses from the 1920's, decked in syp 1x8's---with absolutely no felt. Of course when we replace completely strip and replace a roof , we use 30# felt or,increasingly  Titanium UDL as an underlayment------ but NEITHER of those things are meant to be  considered ice dam protection---and  WE are useing them primarily as marketing.

    ICE Dams would make an excellent topic for another article--- not only ice and water sheild membranes---but extensive venting/insulating issues. Personally--- I would like to see an article in FHB regaurding that------- but I actually think it's beyond the scope of a 4-6 page magazine article. you would need a 200-300 page book to really scratch the surface LOL--------and as a bonus we would  re-start the vent/no-vent wars LOL!!!!

    Best wishes again, Stephen-------- I am off to start re-lining some box gutters.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 10/31/2006 8:12 am ET by Hazlett

1. 
   seeyou | Oct 31, 2006 06:06pm | #2

   >>>>>>>>>I am off to start re-lining some box gutters.Take some pictures and show us. We've got a box gutter thread going in the photo gallery if you haven't seen it. 

   "Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.

   http://grantlogan.net/

1. 
   Hazlett | Oct 31, 2006 08:15pm | #4

     Greencu,

    I hadn't seen it. I just took a quick peek---and it looks just like I would have expected from you--- very nice. when I have a bit more time( December) i will slowly go through it and study it frame by frame.

    I am afraid my project is much more "low rent". It's on a house in a " historic area"--- but economically depressed. House is probably worth less than $100,000. long term---with city investment --- the area could again be spectacular. there is a small lake in the center of the town--- effectively the town square----and the lake is surrounded on 4 sides by mixed residential and old school retail buildings.

    the house I am working on---dates, I suspect from about 1900----wood frame.

    One of my material suppliers recommended me to these folks and I re-lined a box gutter on the other side of the house about a month ago.  a couple weeks later the homeowners asked me to do  THIS side as well----which is a bit more complicated---instead of a straight run--- there is a small bump out mid span.

    the project will take me about 6 days(I hope). to make this feasible for  me AND the homeowners--- I am doing it in EPDM. Realistically---given the economics of the current  situation there EPDM is really the only possibility.

   Long term----I hope that the existing 3 layer roof can be torn off and the box gutters re lined in metal--- but that is far down the road.

    mike Guertin sent me an Email a month or so ago---and mentioned up in New England--- he has done these box gutters in  Lead.

    about 20-25 years ago--- I worked 5-1/2 years as  an industrial hard chrome plater------ I did  A LOT of lead burning then building anodes out of sheet lead. I think this winter I might experiment again with some sheet  lead and lead burning for similar situations.

    I  WILL take some pictures--- and perhaps this winter I will even get 'em posted here. Believe me---- getting 'em posted will require more work for me--- than the actual project. LOL

    I am actually pre-priming and pre painting some cornice molding for this job------and it's time to go out and put on another coat LOL---------catch ya later

   Stephen

1. 
   seeyou | Oct 31, 2006 08:30pm | #5

   I'd be interested in how you do EPDM in box gutters. I've seen it done badly - I'd like to see it done well. 

   "Let's go to Memphis in the meantime, baby" - John Hiatt.

   http://grantlogan.net/

1. 
   theslateman | Nov 01, 2006 11:19pm | #6

   Grant,

   I'm doing a chimney on one house with slate and this is the house across the street.

   It's a Greek Revival from the 1830's with a pine shingle original roof on boards-with big slates laid over the wooden shingles from 1860 ish.

   The gutters were galv. metal,but were wearing out obviously-  so someone lined them with field rubber using flashing rubber for the ends and laps. Notice the copper strip just below the slate serving as a term bar of sorts.

   This isn't a great application but it will last a while I suppose.

   It isn't my work-   but the house is for sale so I'll probably get a call for work once it  sells.

   Best regards,  Walter

2. 
   blue_eyed_devil | Oct 31, 2006 06:25pm | #3

   I know for a fact that Valleys in Michigan without felt will perform admirably, if the shingles and valley roll is done correctly.

   blue

   Our Skytrak is for sale. It has 500 hrs on it. We want  50k (you pay the freight) and we'll finance it. Drop me an email; it's a good buy.