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Roof valley’s

| Posted in Construction Techniques on May 28, 2002 03:29am

I am about to shingle a roof and was wondering which method is best for finishing off the valley’s. Should I use a flashing, or is it preferred to overlap the shingles in the valley? In either case I’ll use “Ice and Rain” protection against the sheeting.

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  1. Scooter1 | May 28, 2002 03:34am | #1

    Each has its own advantages.

    Three basic ways: The Flashed Valley, the Cut Or "California Valley" or the Woven Valley.

    Flashed Valley is probably the simplest, and relies upon the flashing to carry away the water quickly. But then you have to look at that stupid flashing . . . .

    The Woven Valley was supposed to be more waterproof, but can buldge if not done right.

    The California Valley in my humble opinion is the cleanest looking.

    Use Ice and Water Shield 18-24" on each side of the Valley.

    Regards,

    Boris

    "Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1927

    1. Piffin | May 29, 2002 06:50am | #5

      bois, don't forget to mention that there are at least three different ways to do a metal flashed valley.

      Excellence is its own reward!

  2. User avater
    rjw | May 28, 2002 04:53am | #2

    If you want the vally to be the first thing to go, cut or woven.  If you don't, flashed with metal.

    1. grantlogan | May 28, 2002 02:05pm | #3

      I agree with Bob on this but, I've recently seen a trick used on "cut" and open valleys that I like a lot and thought I would pass on an see if anyone sees a problem with it.  After the shingles are applied through the valley from one side, a course of shingles is run parrallel to the valley on the unshingled side (this is using dimensionals).  Then, when the the second side is shingled, the horizontal courses are layed so the bottom corner of each course meets the bottom edge of the valley course. The valley course creates a fill in for the little triangle that would be left open at each course. There is no cutting at the valley (I've often seen the bottom course damaged), the valley is perfectly straight, and if the shingles are bottom sealed, there is less chance for water to run under the top side. If an open valley is used the same process works. Just lay the valley shingle over the metal at the desired reveal.

        

      gl

      My powers can only be used for good.

  3. MrsReese | May 29, 2002 01:27am | #4

    OK, you guys, what's the deal? Do you not put flashing in the valley UNDER the woven shingles? It sounds like you are saying you don't. I'm getting ready to roof this tee-tiny addition of mine, and I was just assuming I'd do a woven valley. It's only about 6 feet of valley. It's smack dab under a big pine tree, too. I think either the cut or the open valley would just end up with pine straw stuck in it, plus the pine cones hitting metal would make an even louder noise than they already do on the shingles.

    But here's my dilemma. This is a piece of roof you can see from the ground. On the other side of my house I did two woven valleys when I added my new front porch. One of the valleys came out with the weave strangely off. I'm sure it's all waterproof and fine, but it looks wonky. The line is about a foot up one side instead of running down the middle of the valley. I let it go because only the traffic helicopter guy is ever going to see it. I don't actually know what I did wrong. I've read all kinds of articles and books, and none of them really address this.

    I'd sure like to figure it out before I do this next piece of roof. Should I just start in the valley and work out?

    1. grantlogan | May 29, 2002 01:25pm | #6

      I seldom do any sort of closed valley, but anymore I use ice & water membrane in lieu of metal when I do. A metal valley is worthless with a nail hole in it. I've seen metal under closed valleys that looked like swiss cheese. Also, in regards to Piffin's post, the best way (imho) to install a metal valley is to fold a cleat on the sides and and nail thru tabs hooked into the cleats. Valley should be installed in sections no langer than 10'.   This allows for exp/contr. I have replaced many valleys installed in full runs that have worked a hole in themselves.

      gl

      My powers can only be used for good.

      1. MrsReese | May 29, 2002 06:46pm | #7

        I don't even think you can get ice and water shield in Atlanta. Snow is a freak occurence. I have snow on my roof for about 2 days out of the year. It gets above freezing every day except maybe once. In fact, most of the winter it doesn't even get below freezing at night. Doesn't it take a couple of days to build up ice dams enough to cause a leak? I've only ever read about it. Anyway, I think I'm limited to metal flashing and tar paper. The damming I get is from pine straw and pine cones piling up in the valley. I should just install a permanent ladder so I can get up there and sweep the roof more often without the drudgery of getting out the ladder and putting it away again.

        I can't think why the flashing would get holes in it if you keep the nails back from the valley when you put on the shingles. I guess if you delegated that to somebody really lazy or stupid or both.... I'm not lazy or stupid, just ignorant. I'll figure something out.

        Thanks!

        B

        1. grantlogan | May 30, 2002 06:08am | #8

          Yeah, If you can't get I & W barrier use terne II or aluminum. In my area the barrier has just about replaced metal for this application. And it is amazing when I've been called to do leak repairs, how many nail holes I find in valley metal (they're usually gun nails). Most shinglers get paid by the square around here, so stopping to think is costing them money (or so the mind set seems to be). 

          Good Luck

          gl

          My powers can only be used for good.

          1. MrsReese | May 31, 2002 06:47pm | #9

            Whew, I don't even want to think about getting paid by the amount of work I get done. I would fire myself from working on my own house if I thought like that. Sometimes I briefly consider it, and get so upset I remind myself never to do it again. Yesterday I completed 2 steps from my deck. The whole day. I'm just talking about the treads. I had already done the risers. I specifically designed these steps knowing they would be ridiculously labor intensive, but it would use up all these short bits of lumber I had left. I made them like a series of 12 tiny 10 1/2" deep, 4' wide decks with 2x6 joists and 2x4 decking the short way. Insane. I'm using up all my short 2x4's, but I had to buy an extra 10 pounds of screws. Basically I'm just killing time doing something whacky to stall on doing that roof because I find carrying shingles up a ladder very tiresome. I expect it will take me about 5 days to roof that thing once I start, and I'm only planning to buy 13 packs of shingles. My husband announced last weekend that he was going to do the roof, invite some friends over to help him and everything. I hope I get to it before he does. I'd rather do it myself than have him ask for help with 13 packs of shingles. That's just embarrassing.

          2. User avater
            BossHog | May 31, 2002 07:45pm | #10

            I also use to hump shingles up a ladder, but never again. The local lumberyard offers rooftop delivery for an extra $10. No way would I hump more than a few bundles up a ladder for that little money.

            Might be worth looking into, even if it isn't a large amount.

            Why do irons have a setting for permenant press?

          3. MrsReese | May 31, 2002 08:24pm | #11

            I only get free delivery from the lumberyard for orders over $300. 13 packs of shingles at Home Depot is only $113 and I can get 'em in my station wagon in a few trips. Plus, don't they put those shingles up there with a boom truck or something? This is a teeny addition in the backyard that you can only get to up some stairs and through a gate. No luck.

            I figure I need the excercise in my legs to balance the Popeye forearms I'm getting from hammering and cutting, etc. I can only carry about a third of a pack of shingles at a time. So I open 'em in the car, get a pile out, walk up the steps, through the gate, across the yard, and up the ladder. I just make a few trips, nail them down, then go get some more. Keeps my back from tensing up too much from crouching on the roof, plus it gets my heart rate up. Think of all the money I'm saving by not going to step areobics class at the gym!

            But you see how it would drive a man crazy to see me do it that way. It looks horribly inefficient. But I get so bored doing the same thing for too long I start to make mistakes. I could never work on an assembly line. I design my work habits to balance boredom and exertion. It's a luxury of working alone.

            So is getting to take a break to goof off on the internet ;-)

            B

          4. Piffin | Jun 01, 2002 01:55am | #12

            Slow and steady still gets it done. I remember doing a few like that twenty years ago - last time my arm was in a sling.

            And your hubby better know how lucky he is. You get to do all the hard work and he gets a wife in good shape. Are you sure he's got any fiends?

            ;>)Excellence is its own reward!

          5. Handydan | Jun 01, 2002 10:27am | #13

              Come on Piff!   Who cares if he has any freinds, does she have any Sisters?

              I feel lucky if my wife fixes lunch while I work on the roof.

            Dan

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