Roofing Proposal: Can vs Ridge venting
We are in the process of getting bids to reroof our house…tearing off the old composition shingles and replacing with arch-type composition. Roof pitch is 10:12 with attic spaces at ridge areas.
One roofing bid shows different options and prices of using can or ridge venting.
Another roofing bid priced out ridge venting only. I sent an email asking for an amended bid showing both can and ridge venting. The reply I got they do not use can vents because they do not work well and will not warranty and if I insisted on the can vents they will lower the warranty. (Their statement did not make sense: will not warranty vs lower warranty if can vents used…which is it?)
I am sure there are pros and cons of each can vents and ridge vents for any given situation. I am getting the feeling that this bid is trying to force us into using ridge venting.
Also, will not give me pricing on the amended bid unless I tell them how they look in my decision…
Kinda get the feeling that this aint right…am I wrong or missing something?
Replies
You might get a lot of varying opinion here, but my own philosophy is to keep roof penetrations to a minimum (centralize waste vents, run exhaust vents out walls whenever possible, avoid "can" vents, etc.
I've had very good experience with ridge vents and I've repaired a couple of leaky roofs in the location of can vents and vent flashings that were poorly installed. If a roof vent won't provide the required ventilation area relative to your soffit vents, you can increase area with gable vents or cupolas which can also serve as architectural features.
I recently reroofed a house that had two can vents that, while they didn't leak, squirrels or mice had chewed through the screen inside the vent to gain entrance to the attic.
And, in the end, IMO can vents detract from the appearance of a nice roof, especially one of a steeper pitch as yours.
And those big woodpeckers, I think they are called Flickers, use them to drum on! MAN! they make a racket at 4 in teh morning!
DoRight has an excellant point...considering we have a bunch of those critters around here who like to drum away!
Pretty crazy! I could not believe it the first time I went outside to see what the Heck was going on! I have since seen them drumming on steal roofs on sheds adn such. Not really a problem jsut amazing.
I don't get the warranty reduction but, in theory, ridge vents outlet more evenly across the attic. There may be some reason that the "can" vents can't be installed as high as the ridge vent or the paths to the cans may be somewhat obstructed, so there could be a build up of hot moist air above the cans. IMHO, the ridge vent (if installed properly) will out perform individual vents if only marginally.
Its never too late to be up to date.
http://grantlogan.net/
Thanks...we are trying to educate ourselves; our decision will at least be knowledgeable. With ridge venting, I understand that there are good and bad here also. For example, and I have further to study on this, there is baffle and "sponge" type. We are interested in a 40 year arch-style composition with the "pumpkin tooth" design...more stair stepped looking than horizontal lined. One product is Elk Domain Ashford that seems to come with two different kinds of ridge vents. Any thoughts on the Elk or other products? The first company gave us a list of at least 300 houses/addresses with the roof product used. Mostly Elk is used but there are also Certainteed, Owens, Pabco, Tamco, Gaf and Malarkey.
I think you'll do OK with any of the better quality rigid ridge vents. They each have their own patented formula, of course, but generally use a combo of baffles and thin foam "filters" to block rain/snow/leaves. The only place where such a system might fail to provide decent protection is in a location where you commonly get hurricane-force wind-driven rain, but in such locations keeping rain out is a problem regardless.There is the problem that a ridge vent can seem a hair out of place with some shingle types (though partly this is just because we're not used to it -- no one gives vent cans a second glance). It will generally fit in better with "architectural" shingles than with bland, flat, monochrome ones.
If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. --James Madison
Having repaired a lot of leaky roofs, I'll second what has been said below: use ridge vent not cans.
As for what brand of ridge vent, that may be up to the roofer, unless you specify one. I have been very happy with everything I have gotten from Cor-A-Vent (http://www.cor-a-vent.com/). If you live in a windy climate (like me) check out the X-5 ridge vent. It has a little flap that sits on the roof that is lifted by the wind to block any wind-driven moisture from getting into the house. It is not noticable from the ground, and makes very little noise. I can hear it opening and closing on a windy day in my uninsulated shed, but doubt it will be an issue with a ceiling full of insulation between you and the noise.
On the pricing breakdown, read around in the business section of Breaktime, or post your question there. I have read good arguments for both practices (breaking down your price, or not), but you will get a better answer from someone other than me.
-Rich
Thank you. I have been convinced and decided on the ridge vents based on a variety of different sources and information. Not going to get into the break down of pricing....at least I can compare apples to apples with same items being considered. The one company that is coming through was the one that did not impress me at first blush...but communication opened the doors.
Please, whatever you do, make sure your roofer knows what he is doing. You cannot just just whip a ridge vent on and call it good. You also need soffit vents and a way for air to flow from them to the ridge.
MSA1...you are so correct! The company we are leaning towards is well regarded and rated in this area. Even the estimator was intuitive enough regarding the balancing of the soffit and ridge venting. Now my next concern is with making sure I have lien releases so as not to get into that financial cobweb.
Just make sure that the ridge vent is some sort of plastic baffle design - there is a cheap type of roll vent that is about 12" wide, and 1" thick and resembles a pubic hair duvet... I don't think that these vent at all properly once the shingles are on top of them and compressing. Good luck.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>I don't think that these vent at all properly once the shingles are on top of them and compressing. Good luck.You don't think, but you don't really know, do you? They actually work very well. I know.
Its never too late to be up to date.
http://grantlogan.net/
How do you know? I've only seen the damage caused by them. Have you seen a comprehensive study, where all the variables are removed, and it has been proven that the roll vent provides the same ventilation as the baffle type? Your comment was somewhat vague.
>>>>>>>>>>>I've only seen the damage caused by them. What type of damage and how many instances? They work better in my experience at keeping fine blowing snow out (yeah, I've seen the moving baffle type - might work some of the time, might not).I've measured temperature drop in the attic before and after installing them. I know they work. Do they work slightly better or slightly worse than other types? Who knows and frankly who cares? They work (I'm talking about Cobra brand) and I have less callbacks with this type vent. I've literally installed miles of ridge vent of many brands and types. So, I guess that's as close to a comprehensive study as I can provide.
Its never too late to be up to date.
http://grantlogan.net/
Thanks for that info. I didn't mean to be confrontational, or anything - I just haven't had great experience with them. I'm a GC and carpenter, so I tend to go with what I'm more comfortable with. It sounds like you do lots of roofs, and if you're doing the copper like on that link of your post, I'm sure you're a lot more concerned with the long-term results than the ashpalt roofers I meet around here.
Go with the ridge vent.
If you want to go to the back of the list talk to me about lien releases. You want me to sign a lien release that says I've been paid before I get paid. Forget it.
No, you give the lien release when you are paid.However, that requires that you have either paid the supplier to get theirs or your credit is good enough that they will give you one before payment.
A lien release is an acceptable business practice with reputable companies. It is proper to have the understanding with the roofing company at the time of the signing of the contract what is expected of from both parties. Just one of the things on my to-do list along with the details of the products being used.
You know, you just open a whole can of worms and maybe a new, much needed thread on this matter. I can not tell you how many people I have heard about in the last two years. One of these years in Calif, and One in Wash where the owners have paid the contractor and either the sub(s) or the suppliers have not been paid.
Any and all home owner that frequent this site need to understand the whole process of liens and how they are affected by them. Same goes for some contractors, too.
cargin
As for the comment of going to the back of the line, there are ways around this so that everyone gets paid and there are no delays. Two party checks, conditional lien releases, among others.
Never pass up a profitable job because of a gun shy homeowner. They have probably been bit before or know of someone that did.
Here's an example. Roofing guy sells job to tear off a roof. He hires the look tear off guy and says he will pay him when he gets paid. He has shingles delivered and the roof is installedall within 5 days from start. HO pays roofer in full. 15 days after, tear off guy stiill hasn't been paid so he files a preliminary lien notice against HO/property. Material supplier didn't send out prelim. notice quickly either.He doesn't even know the work has been subbed out or who supplied the materials. That comes in about the same time. The HO already paid $10k to the roofer and the suppier wants $3k and tear of guy wants another $1800. Home owner refuse to pay... at least for a while.
This is not just for the protection of the homeowner. It protects the subs too. I should know. I've been burnt by more than one general contractor who was paid in full and I wasn't. The first one I learned the hard way. The last one, well let's just say his bankruptcy and lawyer prevented me from collecting anything on that one.
My best plan of attack for a customer wanting lien releases prior to final payment is that I have the owner write the check out to my company and the either the supplier or the sub. Then, I have the sub or supplier sign a CONDITIONAL lien release, not an unconditional lien release. In the case of the sub, if I owe him the full amount of the check, I sign it and give it to him. If not, he signs it and I deposit it and he receives a check the following banking day. Just enough time for the check funds to show up in my account. Material suppliers are different. I usually just sign the check and give it to them. Any credit in my favor is taken off of next months bill , except in large over payments, which hardly ever happens.
Hopefully you can look at this from the other side before it happens to you.