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roof:slope and pitch

jvl | Posted in Construction Techniques on October 28, 2007 10:43am

pertaining to roofs,if the pitch is 1/12  represents rise/2xrun,and the slope is 2/12 which represents rise/run,what is the correlation between these two terms.pitch takes into  consideration span and rise,slope then is rise over run(2″0f rise for every 12″of run.but what then does that pitch number represents 1″ of rise for every ?jvl

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  1. User avater
    Gene_Davis | Oct 28, 2007 10:48pm | #1

    "Slope" is a racial slur, and the use of this word is forbidden on this forum.

    1. jvl | Oct 28, 2007 10:51pm | #2

      hell i thought it was a ship

    2. Piffin | Oct 29, 2007 12:08am | #5

      I don't get out much.
      Educate me - is a slope like a marroon? 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. seeyou | Oct 29, 2007 12:33am | #6

        is a slope like a marroon?

        "Maroon" is the color of the letters above. "Slope" is a derogatory name for people of Asian descent. I've never understood why. http://grantlogan.net/

         

        I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do

        1. plumbbill | Oct 29, 2007 12:39am | #9

          It's only derogatory when followed by "head"

          Or we would never be able to use the words ski slope.

          Which reminds me of an ol 80's B comedy called "Downhill" IIRC at the end of the movie they were going to have a challenge of a "Chinese downhill" & the Chinaman in an over the top accent said " what the fvck is a Chinese downhill"

          “The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations.” —George Washington

          1. seeyou | Oct 29, 2007 12:49am | #11

            I was speaking about the way Gene Davis was answering the question.

            What is a "chinese downhill"?http://grantlogan.net/

             

            I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do

          2. plumbbill | Oct 29, 2007 12:56am | #15

            "The Chinese Downhill is competition in its purest form, testing the limits of courage and ability as competitors race at lightning-fast speed down steep, undulating terrain in a "no rules, first to the bottom wins" format. It was unanimously agreed that today's races were the most challenging in the event's five year history, with both skiers and snowboarders reaching speeds of up to 110kph on the 1.5km virgin slope."

            “The Hand of providence has been so conspicuous in all this, that he must be worse than an infidel that lacks faith, and more than wicked, that has not gratitude enough to acknowledge his obligations.” —George Washington

          3. eleeski | Oct 29, 2007 01:38am | #16

            I think the movie was "Hot Dog" filmed at Squaw Valley. "Downhill Racer" was a serious (?) Robert Redford ski movie. Most Warren Miller movies have a Chinese downhill of some sort. Johnny Tsunami had one but the politically correct Disney moviemakers called it something else.

            Flat roofs rule!

            Eric

          4. seeyou | Oct 29, 2007 02:30am | #17

            Flat roofs rule!

            Yup, I love them. Fixing leaky ones is probably 50% of my business.http://grantlogan.net/

             

            I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do

          5. seeyou | Oct 29, 2007 12:51am | #12

            http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=slopehttp://grantlogan.net/

             

            I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do

      2. User avater
        Gene_Davis | Oct 29, 2007 12:37am | #8

        A slope is a maroon whose great grandmother was Jewish.  I think.

        Pitch is something done in the world serious.

    3. Framer | Oct 29, 2007 12:47am | #10

      "Slope" is a racial slur, and the use of this word is forbidden on this forum.

       

      Gene,

      You're not serious are you? I played paintball today and got shot in the top of the head twice so I'm not all that sharp. We say "slope" or "pitch" of the roof. Nothing racial at all about "slope".Joe Carola

      1. seeyou | Oct 29, 2007 12:54am | #13

        "Slope" is a racial slur, and the use of this word is forbidden on this forum.

        If he was serious, it would be "####" is a racial slur..................http://grantlogan.net/

         

        I was born in a crossfire hurricane..........shooby dooby do

  2. Piffin | Oct 29, 2007 12:02am | #3

    Doesn't matter to me if you call it slope or pitch, but the pitch of the roof is always calculated rise over run. There is no other set of numbers used in this country. Pitch can be converted to percent or top degrees of angle, but a 1/12 is never a 2/12

    Where did you get your conflagnominious information?

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

    1. davidmeiland | Oct 29, 2007 02:35am | #18

      >>conflagnominious

      Can I use that word, or do you have a patent on it?

    2. jvl | Oct 29, 2007 03:05am | #19

      carpentry and building construction by feirer pg 445,modern carpentry by wagner pg 236

      1. Piffin | Oct 29, 2007 04:36am | #21

        Better throw that book away then, beause pitch is not as you described.by Jims definition of slope ( new one to me) you have the two terms mixed backwards in that book 

         

        Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

  3. Piffin | Oct 29, 2007 12:07am | #4

    I read this again

    I think you are confusing yourself when you consider span.

    Let's say you have a building 24' wide to be roofed with a gable style sloping both ways equally.

    The span is 24' if you are framing this with a truss - a single entity.

    if you are stick framing, the span is 12' for each rafter, or for each side. The run likewise is 12' for that side. Assuming a 2' rise at the ridge....

    The rise over run is 2/12 for the side, not 2/24 for the whole shjeebang

     

     

    Welcome to the
    Taunton University of
    Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime.
     where ...
    Excellence is its own reward!

  4. Jim_Allen | Oct 29, 2007 12:33am | #7

    I don't know what you are really trying to figure out, but I'll throw this tidbit in the mix.

    In the olden days, the term Pitch did not mean the same as the term slope. In modern day times, the two terms are synonymous.

    The olden day term described the relationship between a fraction and the span. Thus, a 1/3 pitch was 1/3 high as the entire span of 24 for a value of 8.

    So:

    A 1/3 pitch was an 8/12
    a 1/4 pitch was a 6/12
    a 1/2 pitch was a 12/12 etc.

    FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

    1. dovetail97128 | Oct 29, 2007 12:54am | #14

      Jim, You nailed it.
      They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

    2. jvl | Oct 29, 2007 03:07am | #20

      i agree with your answer thanks

    3. Dave45 | Oct 29, 2007 06:35am | #28

      the two terms are synonymous.

      Not exactly, Jim.  In the excavating and grading business, slope is often given in terms of rise (or fall) over a distance.  For example, a  3:1 slope would have three units of rise (or fall) per unit of horizontal distance.  Slope can also be described in percent which is the rise (or fall) divided by the horizontal distance and expressed as percent.

      None of this is terribly relavent to a discussion about roofing unless it's an underground house with an earth and sod roof.  In that case, I suppose that the unions would have to decide who builds it - and has the right to decide how to describe it. - lol

      1. hvtrimguy | Oct 31, 2007 05:57am | #37

        what then does grade refer to? in cycling, they refer to hills having an 8% grade or some such thing. never quite understood that."it aint the work I mind,
        It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com

  5. User avater
    Matt | Oct 29, 2007 05:00am | #22

    OK - I'm gonna meet some resistance on this one....  This is the way I learned it from a home building book in a class I took many moons ago:  From this web page:
    http://www.peterbrownconstruction.com/terminology.php

    PITCH - as a measurement is the ratio of the rise of roof to the span of the building. It indicates the incline of a roof as a ratio. The ratio of the vertical rise to twice the horizontal run (span). It is expressed as a fraction. For example if the rise of a roof is 4 ft. and the run is 12 ft., the roof is designated as having a pitch of 1/6.

    SLOPE - indicates the incline of a roof as a ratio of the vertical rise to the horizontal run. It is expressed sometimes as a fraction but typically as "X" in 12. For example, a roof that rises at the rate of 4 inches for each foot (12 inches) of run, is designated as having a 4 in 12 slope.

    So what I was told in the class and what the book said is that the term pitch is very commonly mis-used and the correct term is really slope.  That said, I just use the 2 interchangeably since that is what everyone I have ever met understands.

    1. User avater
      Gene_Davis | Oct 29, 2007 05:08am | #23

      Amish do the great majority of framing in NE Indiana, where I came from before where I am now, and they refer to a roof as a .......-pitch, saying whatever the number is over twelve.

      As in Amos saying to Jacob when they are finishing their lunch, "Jacob, it's time to climb up onto that ten-pitch and shingle the rest."

    2. Piffin | Oct 29, 2007 05:49am | #24

      OK, two books say I am wrong apparently, ButYou look at any set of house plans in this country or talk to any framer and tell him the pitch is 4/12 and you will have a roof framed with a 4" rise and a 12" run 

       

      Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

      1. dovetail97128 | Oct 29, 2007 06:07am | #25

        And that is why people say that languages are living things. They grow, They change, words and phrases that once meant one thing now mean another. But the definition of pitch and slope as given by the OP, Jim Allen and the books is the "correct" one, or rather was until common usage of incorrect terminology took over and became accepted as correct.
        They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

        1. Piffin | Oct 29, 2007 06:11am | #26

          butthere must still be error here, because as given by OP and by the book quoted is opposite of each other 

           

          Welcome to the Taunton University of Knowledge FHB Campus at Breaktime. where ... Excellence is its own reward!

          1. dovetail97128 | Oct 29, 2007 06:19am | #27

            Piffin,
            You are correct he did indeed post both using the same example. the pitch would have been 1/24, the slope 1/12.
            They can't get your Goat if you don't tell them where it is hidden.

          2. jvl | Oct 29, 2007 07:24pm | #31

            if the slope is 2/12. pitch =rise/span so 2 x12=24=2/24=1/12pitch answer is slope 2/12,pitch 1/12.both state the same information in order to construct a roof.both are 9.6 degrees

      2. Jim_Allen | Oct 29, 2007 07:21am | #29

        You are right Piffin. If you look at any set of plans, you will see a ratio with a run of 12. The plans don't normally contain the word "pitch" but thats what we all refer to it nowadays.In my apprentice days, I had the term pitch explained to me but no one ever called a 6/12 a "one quarter" pitch, other than that explanation from one of the old timers. I'm sure all the old timers were just spewing some of their book learning back to me. Come to think of it, I was working on a crew of journeymen and they ALL went through the union apprenticeship program! I haven't seen that in a long while on a residential crew.I think you might see the old fashioned use of that term used on some of those antique drawings of old houses. I do agree that the term has permanently morphed and there probably isn't more than two guys in Texas that were ever taught about it the old way. Oh yeah....I'm glad it's changed. Theres no point in calling something a 1/3 pitch. Yes, we could set up a new framing square chart and derive all the units numbers using that ratio...but I like the system that uses the base of 12 better. FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

      3. hvtrimguy | Oct 31, 2007 05:55am | #36

        exactly!it's perfectly incorrectly right."it aint the work I mind,
        It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com

    3. User avater
      gdcarpenter | Oct 30, 2007 12:52am | #32

      For what it's worth that's exactly what I was told is 'technically correct' when I took a short course to prepare for a GC exam in NC.Let's not confuse the issue with facts!

    4. hvtrimguy | Oct 31, 2007 05:53am | #35

      that is how I was taught in architectural class but in the real world, I was laughed off the job site trying to explain it. in the real world - carps use the terms interchangeably."it aint the work I mind,
      It's the feeling of falling further behind."Bozini Latinihttp://www.ingrainedwoodworking.com

  6. jvl | Oct 29, 2007 07:14pm | #30

    inclination of a roof can be stated in four ways,angle,slope,cut,and pitch.using pitch which is the rise over span fraction reduced down or slope the ratio of rise to run will give you the same information for constructing a roof.basic roof framing barnow.thanks for all your help

  7. Jim_Allen | Oct 31, 2007 01:33am | #33

    I'm just kicking a dead horse here.

    I ran across a little used "Builder Vest Pocket Reference Book" by William J. Hornung and on a whim I checked to see what he would say about pitch and slope. It's an older book, copyright 1955 and updated in 75 but predictably he said:

    "The slope of the roof is expressed in terms of the rise of the roof in inches for each foot of run of rafters. Another common way to expressing the slope of the roof is to express it in terms of pitch. Pitch is the rise of the roof to the span. A pitch of 1/2 means that the rise is one half the span of the roof."

    He then goes on to show the math...1/2 (pitch) x 24(unit span) = 12" slope.

    I'm going to disagree with William a bit when he says "another common way...". It isn't common at all as we can deduce by the evidence presented here by those out in the field. Maybe in days gone by it was common, but not anymore.

    Oh by the way....don't rush out and purchase this book.

    FKA Blue (eyeddevil)

  8. Sasquatch | Oct 31, 2007 01:39am | #34

    I will answer this without first reading the rest of the postings, which I know is at my peril.

    I think it's a traditional/regional/historical/architect/manufacturer thing?

    If you want to know the height of the roof above a certain span, you have one solution.

    If you are interested in the actual slope, such as when considering the price to have a roof shingled, you want the other solution.

    Bottom line, the slope will be half of the pitch.

    Comprende?

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