Replies

1. 
   timkline | Jan 07, 2006 11:29pm | #1

   how I wish I could get these photos to open in this box.........

    

   carpenter in transition

   
2. 
   maddog3 | Jan 07, 2006 11:42pm | #2

   ....since I was always told that wood in concrete is a no-no..

   ... I will be interested to see what the responses are.
   .

   I sunk an 8x8 treated post once , per the job specs, ...I lost the argument for a steel beam .and am convinced the thing was rotten a few years later.

3. 
   dtgardengirl | Jan 08, 2006 03:40am | #3

   We're in a similar situation.  So far the posts are holding, but not for much longer.  They are also set in concrete.  I saw some things on TV with one intriguing idea I might consider.  It involves setting a metal base with the bottom in concrete and the top of the base at grade.  Then the post was screwed into the metal.  Since our area gets the brunt of rain run-off and is in a low-lying area, this might be a good idea for us.

   In the front of our house, it appears they used the non-concrete method and the post held strong for nearly 40 years.  This was a smaller decorative fence in front of the porch and stepdown pad.  Upon removal of the rails, hubby was able to "rock" all but one out, with much effort, and only fell on his tail once.  They seemed quite sturdy while fully intact.  I don't remember even seeing gravel in those holes, so I don't know why they held so long.  I laid low during the removal process, to avoid maritial discord, so I don't kinow how deep they were installed. 

   I think the frost line is the key factor in the depth of the post placement.  I have also read that gravel is the best way to allow the drainage that causes the deterioriation of the wood.  I'll be watching this post for ideas and any suggestions on the best way to get the concrete monster out of the ground.  I notice you mention Wisteria, which I've heard is extremely heavy, requiring maximum support.  It sounds like your situation is more complicated that mine, but I'll hope to learn something in any event.  Best of luck to you.

4. 
   scottthebuilder | Jan 08, 2006 04:12am | #4

   I'm in florida where the ground stays wet always. I never like to concrete around a post unless I can't get around it. If I have to do it I wrap the post in one of those vinyl post covers that are like cladding for a vinyl fence and I cover the endgrain with sika-flex or vulkem poly sealant. I also like to slope the concrete away from the post so water can't sit until it gets soaked into the crack at the joint between the post and concrete. Now to your problem, getting the concrete out would be the hardest part. If the tubes are deep enough, what if you cut the post off flush. chipped out the wood you could get to, filled the hole with concrete and rest the new post on a simpson post base so it beared down on the concrete. Getting the ends of the posts out of the ground(and sealing the endgrain) should certainly make the live longer.

5. 
   cargin | Jan 08, 2006 06:09am | #5

   If you have to use cedar, then I would set the posts in pea gravel. Use a hose and vibration to settle the pea gravel. I have a cattle feeder friend (lots of gates and fencing and big lumber on the place ) and he swears by the pea gravel. I have used it on some fences to good effect.

   Treating the end grain is good but most posts rot from the ground line down. The organisms that do the rotting need oxygen to do their deed. That's why you'll see the utility companies treating their existing poles around the base.

6. 
   RyanBrant | Jan 08, 2006 08:54pm | #6

   I'm in NorCal, where CW has all posts sunk in concrete.  We've taken to painting the bottom of posts with liquid epoxy.  An option if you replace those posts.  If your wisteria isn't to intertwined, it looks like you could dismantle the overhead portion, remove the gate, and then replace the posts.  You will want a breaker bar to remove the old footings.

   Because your trellis has four posts and all are connected by cross members, a second option is to remove one post and footing at a time and repour it with a wet set column base, CB44, and bolt the posts to them.

7. 
   Vikingvood | Jan 08, 2006 09:15pm | #7

   I helped my dad with a simular problem,We built a jig consisting of a piece of channel iron to lay the 4x4's in &  a 1/2" H.D. drill motor mounted to it  with a section of large thread rod attached to it at the oppiste end, We used a 18" long 1 5/8" auger style drill bit & used the threaded rod to push the 4x4 into the drill. we then put       1 5/8"galv pipe cemented in the ground at the reqiured locations leaving or cutting the pipe at 19" above ground level then sliding the 4x4 over the pipe - this system left a gap betwen the bottom of the wood 4x4 & the ground.

8. 
   timkline | Mar 05, 2006 08:39pm | #8

   I know it has been a while, but, thanks all for your responses.  Many great ideas.  I think I am going to bury the post in pea gravel as suggested.  With this method I think I can get the best appearance and hopefully a solid set of posts.

    

   tim

    

   carpenter in transition

1. 
   Jcpilot | Mar 06, 2006 05:58am | #9

   Hi Tim,

        I put an arbor in front of house last year and debated on concrete or gravel as well. So I used both. I dug a five foot deep hole and put a foot of crushed stone at the base. Tamped and leveled it. 6x6 cedar post was coated with roofing tar from the bottom end grain to grade level. Put the post in the hole. Added 6 inches of stone around the base of the post then concreted the thing in place. Pics don't show it but the arbor was primed and two coats of paint.

   I have yet to grade the soil to drain water but I also doesn't help that I have clay soil. I have to dig up that whole front landscaped area to put in a perimeter drain. I've got water in the HVAC ducts under the slab. We'll see what happens.

   JC

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1. 
   timkline | Mar 06, 2006 06:02pm | #10

   Very nice trellis.

   I like your idea of the stone base beneath the concrete.  I have a feeling that concrete was poured around the bases on mine which trapped water and caused the rot.  Unfortunately, the posts aren't that old.

   Thanks

    carpenter in transition

9. 
   fenifjer | May 19, 2011 07:46pm | #11

   Looking to do a big ranch gate

   So I am looking to do a very big ranch gate with trees I am cutting down from the property.  How did your fixes hold up in the ground? I am especially interested in the pea gravel answer with concrete as I have fairly wet clay soil as well.