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Rotted sill replacement

RichBeckman | Posted in Construction Techniques on August 17, 2003 07:56am

My first sill replacement. Started out as a four car garage (20’x36′) (with apartment upstairs) vinyl siding job, but the wood siding on the west end was in the dirt. Pulled it off to replace with cement board and found a rotted sill. The rot continues around the back almost the entire 36 feet. Haven’t really inspected the east end yet.

I reviewed the article in March 2002 FH. The article shows 1/2″ lags to attach a 2×10 to the wall to jack. Lumberyard says that 3/8″ lags would work and would leave a much smaller hole in the stud. That’s what I’ve done so far and so far the 3/8″ lags have worked.

In the interests of time and wanting to not leave the building jacked up overnight (I’m by myself on this), I am replacing the sill first. Then I will go back and repair/replace studs one at a time. Is this not the smartest thing I’ve ever done??

When built, the sill plate was put on the foundation and the floor was poured to be level with the top of the sill. Today’s 2×6 is slightly smaller than the original so now the garage floor is a bit higher than the sill plate. The studs were toenailed directly into the sill plate. I’m wondering about installing a bottom plate (treated 2×4) under the studs, or at least under the studs I repair/replace. It wouldn’t be continuous since I’m only doing one stud at a time. Does that make sense, or does it sound excessive. Lumberyard thought it excessive.

The orginal studs are toenailed to the sill plate with six nails (2 on each 3.5″ surface, 1 on each 1.5″ surface). That strikes me as excessive. Is it??

Judging from the time I’ve got in on this so far, I’m guessing that I’m gonna want to bill for about $2,000 for about 50 feet of sill (with additional not yet determined charges for studs). I bounced the number off of the lumber yard and he said “$40.00 a foot. Sounds reasonable to me.” Is it????

Thanks.

Rich Beckman

Another day, another tool.

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Replies

  1. jc21 | Aug 17, 2003 05:59pm | #1

    How much of the siding is in dirt? I'd be concerned that the problem would repeat itself if the grade isn't brought down or the foundation brought up. Friend's house had a similar problem that 2 home inspectors didn't catch before they bought. Previous owner had an inground pool installed. For some reason, the finished grade of the pool was 8" to 10" above existing grade- above the weep holes in the brick on the house and above the wood siding on the 3 car garage. House flooded and sill/siding rotted in garage. We built a small retaining wall near the house w/ drainage so the grade could be lowered and built a small knee wall in the garage to bring the sill above grade level. No such problems at the Rooftop Bordello I'm sure. ;o)

    1. User avater
      hubcap | Aug 17, 2003 06:48pm | #2

      Hey Rich,

      ditto the other poster about the grade issue- termites come to mind- they won,t eat that hardi but they will go right up behind it and make themselves homely. That is a serious problem.

      The 2x4 plate isn't necessary. Six nails sounds about right if they are 8 penny, overkill for 16. You gonna remove each stud and replace or just cut the rot off and sister in beside? Sistering will go faster.One at a time is fine. Give forty a foot to replace the sill plus about that for stds. maybe suggest an excavator to regrade and seed toss in something for you...

      Now what is this about a bordello?

      hub

      1. jc21 | Aug 17, 2003 08:32pm | #3

        You've never heard of the famous (infamous?) Beckman's Rooftop Ranch & Bordello?

        1. User avater
          hubcap | Aug 18, 2003 03:19am | #5

          doesn't sound familiar...

          unless you mean the thread where rich asked something about gutters and phil called them eves troughs and some dimwit typed the websters definition for gutter and trough out and then that same underachiever asked phil if he was suggesting we put our livestock on the roof and feed them from the eves troughs (does that guy still come around rich?)

          1. User avater
            RichBeckman | Aug 18, 2003 04:01am | #6

            "(does that guy still come around rich?)"

            LOL!!! You know, seems like he was gone for awhile, but lately he's been back posting.

            You had me going there for a minute acting like you didn't understand the reference.

            I have a copy of that thread in Word format (thanks to Ralph Wicklund I believe) if you'd like to revisit it. It's 232 KB. The Heck drawings are not included.

            Rich Beckman

            Time to dump the federal Dept. of Education

          2. Piffin | Aug 18, 2003 04:12am | #7

            Whyin the world not?.

            Excellence is its own reward!

          3. jc21 | Aug 18, 2003 04:26am | #8

            Never forgot that thread ........... that doesn't say too much good about my memory brain cells. Now if I could only find my keys..........

          4. User avater
            hubcap | Aug 18, 2003 04:30pm | #9

            I would love to. Thanks Rich.

          5. User avater
            RichBeckman | Aug 19, 2003 05:42am | #10

            Back to business....

            Thanks to all for the input on my original post. Very helpful and I appreciate it.

            To review...this is a four car garagem, 20 x 36, with an apartment upstairs. Everything is supported on the outside walls. The first attachment is the upstairs floor framing.

            There are termites. At the circled point on the framing diagram, the termites were busy indeed. See the second attachment.

            The bottom of the top plate, weakened by termites, is crushed by the beam. I've jacked the beam up 1/4" and I'm still 1/2" away from fitting in a 2x4 inbetween the beam and the built up post (which is now new lumber).

            Do I jack up another 1/2"

            OR

            Do I cut the post down 1/2", stick a new 2x in and shim to fill between the new piece and the top of the top plate.

            I'm really leaning to the second choice, but I thought I'd seek some input.

            Thanks.

            Rich Beckman

            Another day, another tool.

          6. User avater
            RichBeckman | Aug 19, 2003 06:23am | #11

            Forgot the attachments....

            Well, I can't get the attachments "button" to work. I click it and nothing happens. I've rebooted twice.

            Argggggghhhh!

            Rich Beckman

            Another day, another tool.

          7. User avater
            RichBeckman | Aug 19, 2003 06:37am | #12

            Try it again....

            Rich Beckman

            Another day, another tool.

          8. User avater
            hubcap | Aug 19, 2003 07:26pm | #13

            I would favor going on up- past your 1/2" cutting out the plate and replacing - while it is jacked up you might wanna think about clipping the tops of some of those studs to allow a double top plate to tie everything together. I doubt that crushed plate has much integrity left.

          9. User avater
            RichBeckman | Aug 20, 2003 04:23am | #14

            It was a moot point. The end of the beam that rested on the nearly non-existent plate is even more non-existent. God only knows what was holding that building up.

            So, with the end of the beam gone, and some more damage further out into the beam, now we weigh options....

            Put a post under the beam a couple of feet out from the wall (and wair for a car to knock it out)

            Put a post at the side and one in the middle with a beam between to hold up the beam....can you say, the hard way???

            Replace the existing beam. With the garage door there isn't much room available for depth of beam. If we spend a thousand on one of those doors for low clearance we could get about fifteen inches of depth, assuming the pipes for the heat could be routed around it. As it is, we have 9 1/4" of depth. Checked with the lumberyard and sounds like that would have a lot of bounce. Steel??? Another built up 4x10???

            How about eliminate the beam, replace the 14 joists with material that will span 20 feet and put a couple of posts under the beam that is between the garage doors?

            Didn't get much done today....wondering what I've got myself into.

            Rich Beckman

            Another day, another tool.

          10. User avater
            hubcap | Aug 20, 2003 01:52pm | #15

            wondered about that- termites in the beam that is. I would guess you are going to have to replace it. post up to a temporary beam on either side and remove the sucker. I am guessing that means taking down the garage doors, probably move some heat runs to make room to work.

            posting to the garage floor isn't a good idea- it is not a footer and as you mentioned a post might get knocked out by a car.

            think of this as job security...

            hub

          11. EricS | Aug 20, 2003 10:41pm | #17

            I replaced the sill in about 1/3 of my 20x20 garage - had the same situation as you have - wood below grade.  I replaced wood claps with FC and had landscape pro put in drain pipe under 2"-3" stone to a dry well.  I searched the FHB archives for the sill replacement and came up with loads of advice re how to do it.  It was a little scary for me at the time and I hope not to ever do it again.

            Just a thought from a non-expert:  Why not splice in a new beam end with some nice overlap and fastening scheme?  Maybe sandwich in some steel plate?  That's got to be better than replacing the beam or eliminating the beams with new 20+' of "joists".  Take that last 1/2 inch real slow.

            Eric S.

  2. Piffin | Aug 18, 2003 01:03am | #4

    How far are the studs rotted? I would double plate that bottom. Cut off an onch and a half of the base of each stud. Bet that gets 90% of the rot and all the excess splintering of the toenails. Then sister where needed. Use PT for ther double bottom plates.

    Ditto on the grading. If they can't do that, then you need to place a drain line in 3/4" stone.

    .

    Excellence is its own reward!

  3. mdresimprov | Aug 20, 2003 02:07pm | #16

    First and above all get that grade worked out for proper drainage. I would strike a level chalk line 1 1/2" up from the bottom of each stud or wherever the ro stops and cut it off. If it goes beyond a 2X than PT plywood as a filler to make the correct hgt is an option. I'm sure sistering the stud would be fine, but if seen from the inside I would opt for the filler sill.

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