Do the epoxy type wood restoration products really work? Will the
material really stay put over time? We have been asked to repair ext window
sills approx 4 1/2 thick, all with varying depths of decay. Dont know type of
wood but resembles western cedar, but building is almost 200 years old in Ky.
Dont think that might have been available at that time. Has anyone out there
had good luck with these products. Thanks, Frank
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Replies
i use auto body plastic,it's the same as something like minwax epoxy.is it a good as new wood,no. but i have never had it fail,the wood around it will sometimes continue rotting but you just fill again.
they make a wood hardner that after you have dug out all the rot you give it a squirt and let it dry,it gives you a firm base to start appling the epoxy. if it is a really large spot i will shoot some screws into the area for it to grab on to.larry
if a man speaks in the forest,and there's not a woman to hear him,is he still wrong?
we like them for minor corrections of splitting, checking & general neglect
for more advanced problems , we remove the sill to a firm plane and attach a new sill.... usually out of a composite, like Trex.....
Yes.
Check out abatron.com I've used the liquiwood consolidant and woodepox. Both worked exactly as advertised.
FDC
Remove all the rot before you do the epoxy work,, all of it! Even then whatever caused the rot will continue and the next piece will quickly rot away..
But as a tempoary cosmetic fix it will work.. I take it you just want to patch things enought to quickly sell.. you aren't interested in doing the job right?
I have had good success with the Abitron products. With them, as long as the material is fully dried out and you can paint on the 2 part liquid epox which hardens the material and then you can fill in with the two part putty material. Don't over do the liquid epox. Paint on as much as the material will absorb otherwise you will have the stuff dripping all over the place.
The instructions are good and their tech support is decent. You'll still have to get the feel for it's use. I would check in with folks who do alot of restoration work and see what they have to say too. It's imoportant that you know what has caused the rot and water won't find it's way back into the material once it's cured and re-painted.
Yes, they do work if you prep the area correctly. I suggest that that after you scrape the paint and remove most of the rot you apply Boracare to the wood. This will soak into the wood and prevent further rot and infestation with carpenter ants and termites. You can strategically drill holes into deeply rotted areas to improve the distribution of the Boracare into the wood. Abatron has tested its products with Boracare and they say the Boracare does not interfere with adhesion.
After the Boracare has dried you should apply a wood consolidant such as available from Abatron or from Minwax. Abatron is the pro in this area but their epoxy consolidant can take a long time to dry in lower temperatures (use a heat gun). The holes you drilled above will allow the consolidant to sink deep into the wood.
Use Woodepox from Abatron to fill the holes. The epoxy sets faster with heat.
Sand and apply two coats of an oil primer. This will seal the windowsill from moisture which will help prevent rot and prevent the Boracare from leeching out of the wood. This is a necessary step when using Boracare on exterior applications.
Use a good caulk. I like polyurethane because it lasts forever and stays flexible but everyone has their favorite. I would stay away from latex caulk in this application.
Then paint with a good exterior latex.
Billy
Edited 4/18/2008 12:37 pm ET by Billy
I haven't had great luck with Abatron. The wood epox wood hardener needs the solvent to really penetrate the wood, and that stuff is nasty. In no time you will be hallucinating, even outdoors. The two part paste that I applied in july of 2000, is now expanding and contracting at a different rate than the wood, thus causing it to split away from the wood. At first glance, it just looks like it has shrunk. I used it only because the house is a museum property, and preservation of the historic fabric is top priority. I applied it according to manufactuers specs. Maybe you might have some better luck in a warmer climate. The area where I work is on the ocean in New Hampshire/ Maine where temperature swings from the dead of winter (-20 deg. F) to height of summer (95 deg F) can cause anything to crack. Including me.
I had pretty crummy results with Abatron too. I did a repair with it during a hot humid July (directions never said anything about not using in humid conditions) and the stuff never cured. In the end I used solvent to clean it out and went to the MInwax stuff instead.
What really irked me was the lousy customer support I got from them. Really no help at all when I told them the product wasn't hardening (could have been bad material?). I even did a test sample in a cup to see if it would harden if it was a bigger mass. No such luck, stuff cured to the consistency of a soft rubber ball and was still sticky. I suggested maybe they sent me bad material and they wouldn't even consider that or a refund.
Edited 4/18/2008 6:13 pm ET by ted
I haven't used Abatron, but I did use what are probably similar products from the website Rot Doctor ( http://www.rotdoctor.com/L/QAmain.html ) which also (or at least used to - I haven't looked at it for a while) has some pretty good information on repairing rotting wood. West System Epoxy has gotten a lot of great reviews, however, IIRC when I read their web page a while back they said they do not recommend using their product diluted with thinner to soak into the wood such as with the penetrating epoxy. I also bought some penetrating epoxy from my local lumber yard but either the hardner was no good or there was some other problem in that the epoxy never fully hardened.My experience was that the penetrating epoxy can do a pretty good job of consolidating "pithy" wood but the wood can soak up surprising amount of the stuff - and it ain't cheap. The other thing I found is that I am not very good about working with the regular epoxy to leave a smooth and level surface. After placing the regular epoxy, there were swirls and ridges that required some work to get rid of. I probably should have just brought the epoxy up shy of the desired final level and filled in with a wood filler or spackle that was easier to work.
I have had some good luck with West system epoxy. The customer support has been very good. I also have had some problems with all these types of chemicals in higher heat and humid conditions. Abatron doesn't like to set in the hot and humid, West when it gets hot can be like holding a bomb- the stuff kicks off all at once. It has enough heat to deform plastic mixing containers.
Over the past few years, I have shifted over to cutting out all of the rot and making a tight fitting dutchman reapair and using less and less glue. Some of the warning labels on the stuff makes me a little nervous. One of them (I can't remember which) said that exposure can cause "de-fatting of brain tissue" and "damage to central nervous system" Not somthing I feel like doing.
I have had some good luck with West system epoxy. The customer support has been very good. I also have had some problems with all these types of chemicals in higher heat and humid conditions. Abatron doesn't like to set in the hot and humid, West when it gets hot can be like holding a bomb- the stuff kicks off all at once. It has enough heat to deform plastic mixing containers. @@@Use WEST all the time on my boat. What I like is their metered mixing pumps. One push for resin, one push for hardener and that is the right mix. They make fast and slow versions. As I recall, most of the other require you to eyeball the right mix. If you mix a lot you do learn about exothermic reactions. I dropped mine, smoking, into the drink. An ice water bath probably would have worked to cool the can. I normally mix it with micro balloons to consistency of peanut butter.
For big gaping rot hole, wood croutons or filler bits work to fill most of the void. For getting into odd areas, they make syringes to shoot the stuff.
The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
I have used West Systems with good results on similarly rotted 100 year old sills. The best process I have come up with is to mix epoxy and then thin with acetone or denatured alcohol to a watery consistency. Remove as much of the rotted wood as possible and brush this solution on to saturation. I often do this over the course of several days or even drilling holes and injecting with a large glue syringe. Once this is complete and the wood will take no more then I move on to traditional epoxy fix, shape and finish. Without the prep the patches are bound to loosen and pop.
Last year was the year of Rot!
I repaired everything everywhere.............
For showpc areas where complete replacement was unnecessary or "impossible" I used new material coupled with epoxy. I'd cut out all the bad, stabilize the marginal with hardener then pc together buildup usually made up of parts is pcs. of Azek-pvc "wood". These patches were secured with whatever made sense in the application, oftentimes using the epoxy as the "glue". Blended in the patch with epoxy, sand and paint.
Worked well.
Make sure you take care of the cause of the rot. Many times it's years of neglect-often a mystery water source-Like those damn sprinkler systems that bathe the area every morning-never really drying out.
Urethane caulk-very important use in avoiding future failure. Flashing don't hurt much either.
A Great Place for Information, Comraderie, and a Sucker Punch.
Remodeling Contractor just outside the Glass City.
http://www.quittintime.com/
There is a guy who writes articles for the mag, does restoration work in new orleans. Davis? You might try to find his articles.
"Put your creed in your deed." Emerson
"When asked if you can do something, tell'em "Why certainly I can", then get busy and find a way to do it." T. Roosevelt
There is a guy who writes articles for the mag, does restoration work in new orleans. Davis? You might try to find his articles.John Michael Davis or similar.His articles are in the FHB archive. Printed out several.The ToolBear
"I am still learning." Goya
Don't know where you are but I have used Smith's expoxy sealer and patching compound for18 years and I am very happy with it's durability. Check out: http://www.smithandcompany.org/